7.1.5 PTR Notes Changes for DPS DKs

[TiagoRamos]

I messed around a bit yesterday with trying the mastery build, and though my gear is garbage (829 with mastery stacking (41% mastery)) cos my DK only hit 110 like 4 days ago, my dps did improve by about 20% or so. Its also pretty enjoyable and rather fluid.

What would be the rotation in ST? Would it be different from what is now?
Anyways, I feel that if we use defile in ST will be a pain cause of tanks/boss moving from our shyt...

[Deleted]

stats would be most likely 18-20% haste > mastery > crit > versa . however, I'd go for about 25% crit, 20% haste and then stack mastery. talent build would include Bursting Sores, Clawing Shadows, Shadow Infusion, Defile.

You'd have to pop defile initially to get that 3k mastery then pop DT, unload FWs with Apo and pop garg... so even more ramp up ^^, either way, looks quite solid and it addresses our horrible mobility somewhat.

[TiagoRamos]

So basicly defile is not exacly to deal damage is just only to boost mastery?
I got the shoulders...so the rotation will be funny... lol a LOT of ramp

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

What would be the rotation in ST? Would it be different from what is now?
Anyways, I feel that if we use defile in ST will be a pain cause of tanks/boss moving from our shyt...

I wasnt really focusing on the rotation properly as such, since i was messing around i just followed the "dont overcap resources" idea. I also wasnt sure whether or not abilities like Gargoyle and Outbreak snapshotted your mastery, but i went ahead with the assumption that it did.

My opener was:
Outbreak
Festering Strike till 8 wounds,
Defile (if you think you can fit the Defile in before getting 8 wounds, then its even better for extra mastery in the next few abilities. Just up to your rune management/luck really).
Dark Transformation
(Pop CDs)
Apocalypse
Army of the Dead
Gargoyle

Things to note:
Apocalypse and Gargoyle should be popped max or near max stacks of Defile.
To not overcap RP, you will need to throw out some DCs throughout that opener.

After the opener, i was just going with making the best of your resources;
DC at high RP (80-85)/When SD procs
Try to make sure your CS is popping wounds,
Use Defile on cooldown,
Align your 3rd/4th Defile with another 8 wound Apocalypse


Im sure people will find ways to improve this, but that was my basic strategy yesterday.

[Deleted]

stats would be most likely 18-20% haste > mastery > crit > versa . however, I'd go for about 25% crit, 20% haste and then stack mastery. talent build would include Bursting Sores, Clawing Shadows, Shadow Infusion, Defile.

You'd have to pop defile initially to get that 3k mastery then pop DT, unload FWs with Apo and pop garg... so even more ramp up ^^, either way, looks quite solid and it addresses our horrible mobility somewhat.

I believe the sweet spot for crit might be even at 22%-23% that allow us to stack mastery or 1-2% haste more. I think 23% crit -20-22% haste and 55%-60% mastery will be the thing.

[Deleted]

I believe the sweet spot for crit might be even at 22%-23% that allow us to stack mastery or 1-2% haste more. I think 23% crit -20-22% haste and 55%-60% mastery will be the thing.

something like that yep, all though 60% mastery is a tad low imo, I'd love some 80%, but with the nerf to secondary stats... we'll have to see. haste starts losing value after 6800 which is about 21%, I wouldn't go over 20%. So tl;dr 23% crit, 20% haste, 60-80% mastery would be BIS I guess. There's a lot of shit to cover.

A mastery build would be Bursting Sores, Clawing Shadows, Shadow Infusion, Defile with something like 23% crit, 20% haste, 60-80% mastery with the defile legendary and... bracers?!

A haste DA build might work? Stacking a lot of haste , the NH trinket and SI with the legendary shoulders, it should line up well. My DA on live does about 4-5 mil dmg in full bloodlust burst. I'm not sure its worth the investment though :/

The classic crit build for bracers / FW. Will it still be top tier? I'm starting to think that no, considering the DT, CS, Defile buff.

We need a lot of simming and some math wizards when it goes live. I still find it incredibly shitty that classes are balanced around legendaries that are RNG. I have aggra strides, that absorb neck and sephuz (yey, fuck my luck).

[Maxweii]

stats would be most likely 18-20% haste > mastery > crit > versa . however, I'd go for about 25% crit, 20% haste and then stack mastery. talent build would include Bursting Sores, Clawing Shadows, Shadow Infusion, Defile.

You'd have to pop defile initially to get that 3k mastery then pop DT, unload FWs with Apo and pop garg... so even more ramp up ^^, either way, looks quite solid and it addresses our horrible mobility somewhat.

From what I've tested, based on feel and no hard math (however I am someone who in live currently plays a CS build, and so I have a lot of experience with a similar build), you would want slightly higher haste to accommodate not getting that boost from SR all the time. As is with 21% haste on the PTR I feel like I am just fractions away from being able to sometimes naturally extend the buff from Defile, and a slight bit more haste, say to near 25% might do that for it.

Also with SI, it's arguable that it's not going to be taken unless it's pure single target, and even then it's a VERY close tie likely. As is CS builds favor IC more so than a Castigator build, as the extra wound application does a lot to smooth out the rotation. From current testing and my experiences SI was almost never worth it, and IC is essentially a staple of a CS build.

I wasnt really focusing on the rotation properly as such, since i was messing around i just followed the "dont overcap resources" idea. I also wasnt sure whether or not abilities like Gargoyle and Outbreak snapshotted your mastery, but i went ahead with the assumption that it did.

My opener was:
Outbreak
Festering Strike till 8 wounds,
Defile (if you think you can fit the Defile in before getting 8 wounds, then its even better for extra mastery in the next few abilities. Just up to your rune management/luck really).
Dark Transformation
(Pop CDs)
Apocalypse
Army of the Dead
Gargoyle

Things to note:
Apocalypse and Gargoyle should be popped max or near max stacks of Defile.
To not overcap RP, you will need to throw out some DCs throughout that opener.

After the opener, i was just going with making the best of your resources;
DC at high RP (80-85)/When SD procs
Try to make sure your CS is popping wounds,
Use Defile on cooldown,
Align your 3rd/4th Defile with another 8 wound Apocalypse


Im sure people will find ways to improve this, but that was my basic strategy yesterday.

Nothing for DK's snapshots buff, so Outbreak and Gary should just be cast as is.
Some slight amendments to what you were doing.

Army 6s before pull - Outbreak - Gary - DT - Defile - FS to 8 wounds - Apoc

That's it for opener, from there on it's a priority system.
>70 runic I DC till empty, especially hoping for a SoW proc. When you get SoW you would stop dumping runic and use CS till empty on wounds or till buff expiration (this is why you usually wana hover around 5-6 wounds for what you aim to apply). Defile obviously used on CD, same with DT and Apoc as normal. Gary used on CD, likely will end up benefiting from 2 Defile buffs if you time it correctly/are dropping Defile right off CD.

Might be something I am missing, but those are ammendments that would likely improve damage overall. This is talking without the legendary helm or bracers or anything. Obviously with say the helm you would prioritize DC more whenever you can so that you reduce Defile's CD more.

something like that yep, all though 60% mastery is a tad low imo, I'd love some 80%, but with the nerf to secondary stats... we'll have to see. haste starts losing value after 6800 which is about 21%, I wouldn't go over 20%. So tl;dr 23% crit, 20% haste, 60-80% mastery would be BIS I guess. There's a lot of shit to cover.

A mastery build would be Bursting Sores, Clawing Shadows, Shadow Infusion, Defile with something like 23% crit, 20% haste, 60-80% mastery with the defile legendary and... bracers?!

A haste DA build might work? Stacking a lot of haste , the NH trinket and SI with the legendary shoulders, it should line up well. My DA on live does about 4-5 mil dmg in full bloodlust burst. I'm not sure its worth the investment though :/

The classic crit build for bracers / FW. Will it still be top tier? I'm starting to think that no, considering the DT, CS, Defile buff.

We need a lot of simming and some math wizards when it goes live. I still find it incredibly shitty that classes are balanced around legendaries that are RNG. I have aggra strides, that absorb neck and sephuz (yey, fuck my luck).

80%+ mastery isn't that hard to get with current gear, so not even counting Nighthold. I have above that on live, as well as in the PTR.
As I explained above however, the stat set with using Defile will likely need a bit higher haste, something around 25% or so. 17-20% crit is where the stat falls in strength in live, and that might even go down considering the buff to CS making mastery stronger (and the pet buff too making it stronger). This will essentially make it a hard haste/mastery build.

Also unless it's pure single target, SI likely won't be stronger, especially if you take BS/CS. CS values IC as a talent much more than a Castigator build does, as you don't have any random extra wounds being generated. Very likely IC will stay the staple of that row, barring maybe Necrosis for pure single target damage output (but obviously annoying playstyle).

With current tuning in the PTR even at 2 mins, DA still just doesn't feel like it does enough damage to beat out Defile or SR.

[iky43210]

Blizzard will never open up major raid a week or two before Christmas, that's common sense.

Not for our benefits but theirs. Most of their engineers won't be in the office if shit goes wrong

[Sephirosu]

"Warlock issues will get fixed during the expansion, but the team didn't feel like they could get the changes done in time for this patch." I Hope this isnt a sign of things to come for other classes aka ours =)

[Adlian]

"Warlock issues will get fixed during the expansion, but the team didn't feel like they could get the changes done in time for this patch." I Hope this isnt a sign of things to come for other classes aka ours =)

Sadly from what im seeing so far and seeing how much Blizzard are unaware with the state of DKs, i highly doubt they will do any changes anytime soon. Maybe 7.2 or 7.2.5.

[Mawnix]

Sadly from what im seeing so far and seeing how much Blizzard are unaware with the state of DKs, i highly doubt they will do any changes anytime soon. Maybe 7.2 or 7.2.5.

You mean how they directly commented on the RNG of Unholy which we've consistently said they're unaware of yet.. sorta just proved they aren't?

Not to mention they just confirmed the Patch isn't coming until after the holidays, so, there's still time.

[Maxweii]

They gave us good feedback in the sense that tuning is CLEARLY not done, and we have NOT been compensated for the bracers change, meaning we will go up baseline on top of any other changes we have already gotten. Also the Apoc change to 4 wounds popping 8 ghouls would be nice and would speed up the opener a lot.

[Rothulean1]

Watcher just made mention that theyre considering changing Apocalypse.

Proposed change:
Apocalypse would only proc 4 wounds but summon 2 ghouls for each.

Pros:
Our opener becomes much more consistent.
We require less Festering Strikes.

Cons:
Loss of burst due to bursting only 4 wounds vs 8 (400% AP shadow damage loss, ignoring Bursting Sores.)

I personally like this change but would like to see Festering Wounds procced by Apocalypse to deal 2x damage to prevent a damage loss. Either that or increase Army of the Dead ghoul damage.

[Deleted]

Watcher just made mention that theyre considering changing Apocalypse.

Proposed change:
Apocalypse would only proc 4 wounds but summon 2 ghouls for each.

Pros:
Our opener becomes much more consistent.
We require less Festering Strikes.

Cons:
Loss of burst due to bursting only 4 wounds vs 8 (400% AP shadow damage loss, ignoring Bursting Sores.)

I personally like this change but would like to see Festering Wounds procced by Apocalypse to deal 2x damage to prevent a damage loss. Either that or increase Army of the Dead ghoul damage.

I'm surprised we got mentioned.

This Q+A isn't all Mage Mage Mage.

[Deleted]

They gave us good feedback in the sense that tuning is CLEARLY not done, and we have NOT been compensated for the bracers change, meaning we will go up baseline on top of any other changes we have already gotten. Also the Apoc change to 4 wounds popping 8 ghouls would be nice and would speed up the opener a lot.

I totally agree with you. The 4 wounds change is a massive qol change alone, Ignoring any dps boost.

Tbh im quite shocked (and impressed) they'd make a change like that. It gives me hope for 7.1.5

[Ascius]

I totally agree with you. The 4 wounds change is a massive qol change alone, Ignoring any dps boost.

Tbh im quite shocked (and impressed) they'd make a change like that. It gives me hope for 7.1.5

I'm in the same boat, it really was nice that we got a sentence about us, maybe we'll get some changes that we asked for... hopefully.

[Deleted]

From what I've tested, based on feel and no hard math (however I am someone who in live currently plays a CS build, and so I have a lot of experience with a similar build), you would want slightly higher haste to accommodate not getting that boost from SR all the time. As is with 21% haste on the PTR I feel like I am just fractions away from being able to sometimes naturally extend the buff from Defile, and a slight bit more haste, say to near 25% might do that for it.

Also with SI, it's arguable that it's not going to be taken unless it's pure single target, and even then it's a VERY close tie likely. As is CS builds favor IC more so than a Castigator build, as the extra wound application does a lot to smooth out the rotation. From current testing and my experiences SI was almost never worth it, and IC is essentially a staple of a CS build.



Nothing for DK's snapshots buff, so Outbreak and Gary should just be cast as is.
Some slight amendments to what you were doing.

Army 6s before pull - Outbreak - Gary - DT - Defile - FS to 8 wounds - Apoc

That's it for opener, from there on it's a priority system.
>70 runic I DC till empty, especially hoping for a SoW proc. When you get SoW you would stop dumping runic and use CS till empty on wounds or till buff expiration (this is why you usually wana hover around 5-6 wounds for what you aim to apply). Defile obviously used on CD, same with DT and Apoc as normal. Gary used on CD, likely will end up benefiting from 2 Defile buffs if you time it correctly/are dropping Defile right off CD.

Might be something I am missing, but those are ammendments that would likely improve damage overall. This is talking without the legendary helm or bracers or anything. Obviously with say the helm you would prioritize DC more whenever you can so that you reduce Defile's CD more.




80%+ mastery isn't that hard to get with current gear, so not even counting Nighthold. I have above that on live, as well as in the PTR.
As I explained above however, the stat set with using Defile will likely need a bit higher haste, something around 25% or so. 17-20% crit is where the stat falls in strength in live, and that might even go down considering the buff to CS making mastery stronger (and the pet buff too making it stronger). This will essentially make it a hard haste/mastery build.

Also unless it's pure single target, SI likely won't be stronger, especially if you take BS/CS. CS values IC as a talent much more than a Castigator build does, as you don't have any random extra wounds being generated. Very likely IC will stay the staple of that row, barring maybe Necrosis for pure single target damage output (but obviously annoying playstyle).

With current tuning in the PTR even at 2 mins, DA still just doesn't feel like it does enough damage to beat out Defile or SR.

cheers for your post dude. I'm really surprised about what you said IC vs SI. As it stands, DT will benefit from mastery which would mean quite a boost in pet damage, shouldn't that outweigh IC? Maybe i'm just underestimating FW dmg with a shit load of mastery.

Regarding haste, maybe you're right about 25%, I just remember a math wizard that showed via graphs that haste (on live!) falls in power after 6800.
About crit, I figured that 25% crit would be BIS with bracers, without bracers, 20% sounds just abour right ^^.

I already started hoarding mastery/haste rings and necks for next patch. This should be very interesting . I imagine SR >>>> Defile just in the case of boss moving non stop, otherwise I'd never swich out defile tbh.

About stats, I find it hard to get to 80% mastery, I'm 887 atm, 36% crit, 20% haste and just 38% mastery. I'd have to get rid of about 11-16% crit to get 5% more haste and 42% mastery, seems too much, especially with the secondary stats nerf. Maybe with nighthold, we'll have to see.

[Kendros]

Watcher just made mention that theyre considering changing Apocalypse.

Proposed change:
Apocalypse would only proc 4 wounds but summon 2 ghouls for each.

Pros:
Our opener becomes much more consistent.
We require less Festering Strikes.

Cons:
Loss of burst due to bursting only 4 wounds vs 8 (400% AP shadow damage loss, ignoring Bursting Sores.)

I personally like this change but would like to see Festering Wounds procced by Apocalypse to deal 2x damage to prevent a damage loss. Either that or increase Army of the Dead ghoul damage.

Im sure they would buff apocalypse raw damage to compensate the other 4 wounds, but still we would lose some nice aoe burst when specced for bursting sores

[Vycaus]

Im shocked at all of this IC/SI talk with no mention of necrosis. We essentially will be drastically upgrading SS damage, there is no way necrosis is not amazing for a mastery build. I agree that BS+IC is an awesome combo, but the lost wounds would be more than made up for by our CS hitting like a monster truck.

On the subject of Apoc popping 4 wounds, it's not going to be a dps loss as you would not have spent those runes on wounds. This is purely a QoL change.

[Maxweii]

Im shocked at all of this IC/SI talk with no mention of necrosis. We essentially will be drastically upgrading SS damage, there is no way necrosis is not amazing for a mastery build. I agree that BS+IC is an awesome combo, but the lost wounds would be more than made up for by our CS hitting like a monster truck.

On the subject of Apoc popping 4 wounds, it's not going to be a dps loss as you would not have spent those runes on wounds. This is purely a QoL change.

Necrosis will remain a very good single target talent and likely competitive with the other talents, people just don't enjoy it's gameplay. For pure single it will likely still be exceptionally strong, if played very well. Anything with an additional target adds immense value to IC and SI however.