[Feral] Legion Discussion

[Tradu]

How come you're not using MF after the TF for the increased damage?

For the extra SR duration primarily, and as ghostydog mentioned also to increase the odds of getting a PS proc.

[Exerionx]

For the extra SR duration primarily, and as ghostydog mentioned also to increase the odds of getting a PS proc.

That opener is a bit RNG in terms of getting predatory swiftness, so the extra CP from the early moonfire helps increase the odds (going from 1-2 CP roar with just rake to 2-4CP) that your first rip gets BT'd.

Yeah that makes sense!

[Deleted]

Hi , im trying to get back to my feral after I did abandoned it. I have question about leveling an artifact , do I still want to reach ashamane's Rip asap ? as it is my 3rd alt i wont reach it before 7.1.5 prob. without proper AK level so can I purchase open wounds trait earlier than it is mentioned in icy veins guide?

[ghostydog]

Ashamane's Bite remains the single most important trait for us in terms of damage gained, so no, I'd suggest against going for OW first.

[Tradu]

Hi , im trying to get back to my feral after I did abandoned it. I have question about leveling an artifact , do I still want to reach ashamane's Rip asap ? as it is my 3rd alt i wont reach it before 7.1.5 prob. without proper AK level so can I purchase open wounds trait earlier than it is mentioned in icy veins guide?

OW is not very good(roughly as good as 1 point in the Rake trait), definitely go for AB first.

[Deleted]

What do you think about the Proc Chance of Ashamane's Bite? Sometimes, I have the feeling the chance is 0.1% instead of 10%....and if you do not have a decent uptime, the dmg feels garbage :|

[Nivrax]

Wowhead have new changes for feral in ptr. Aura (damage boost to everything but Rip) buffed from 4% to 8% BUT Razor Fang trait nerfed from 7% to 4% per level. That's pretty massive. Big enough that we might need to hunt for Rake relics now?

[Lycanoth]

Assuming you are stacking 3 rip relics that is an 18% damage nerf to rip. Even if that 8% aura included rip this is still beyond a massive nerf.

[Kraineth]

For starters it isn't an 18% nerf to rip, It's smaller than that because of the massive amount of multipliers that get stacked on top of rip using sr+bt. Accounting for just SR+BT (and not mastery or TF)

It is definitely a massive nerf to the value of the rip trait, which was the intention. Brings the Rip trait in line with rake. Which means for general-purpose you are going to want to stack rake relics since the value of rake scales up massively once you start adding more than 1 target to a given boss fight.

This was a good change overall, Nighthold only had one rip relic. And now rip/rake/tf relics are all relatively similar. Not to mention the aura buffs our aoe a little bit.I am always in favor of pulling some of our DPS out of rip so that we can be stronger on anything that isn't pure single target.

[Whitepaw]

For starters it isn't an 18% nerf to rip, It's smaller than that because of the massive amount of multipliers that get stacked on top of rip using sr+bt. Accounting for just SR+BT (and not mastery or TF)

It is definitely a massive nerf to the value of the rip trait, which was the intention. Brings the Rip trait in line with rake. Which means for general-purpose you are going to want to stack rake relics since the value of rake scales up massively once you start adding more than 1 target to a given boss fight.

This was a good change overall, Nighthold only had one rip relic. And now rip/rake/tf relics are all relatively similar. Not to mention the aura buffs our aoe a little bit.I am always in favor of pulling some of our DPS out of rip so that we can be stronger on anything that isn't pure single target.

Indeed. I would like FB to have been buffed as well by the 8% damage aura. I hope that will happen, although it seems that it will not, since balancing seems done now.

[Lycanoth]

For starters it isn't an 18% nerf to rip, It's smaller than that because of the massive amount of multipliers that get stacked on top of rip using sr+bt. Accounting for just SR+BT (and not mastery or TF)

It is definitely a massive nerf to the value of the rip trait, which was the intention. Brings the Rip trait in line with rake. Which means for general-purpose you are going to want to stack rake relics since the value of rake scales up massively once you start adding more than 1 target to a given boss fight.

This was a good change overall, Nighthold only had one rip relic. And now rip/rake/tf relics are all relatively similar. Not to mention the aura buffs our aoe a little bit.I am always in favor of pulling some of our DPS out of rip so that we can be stronger on anything that isn't pure single target.

I was counting towards the fact that this also indirectly nerfs our strongest gold trait as well. Our overall damage on PTR should go up but there will be a significant difference on Rip and Ashmanes RIP compared to live.

I agree with the value of the relic going down because passing on +30 ilvl relic "upgrades" is something that never should have made it out of beta. I disagree with Rake suddenly becoming the relic we stack now. On short lived add fights I agree but when it comes to long cleave fights where add/bosses do not instantly die 3 Rip relics should still be much stronger. This all assuming equal ilvl between the 2 relics.

Unless wowhead/mmo datamining is bonkers the 8% aura string both sites have posted essentially shows buffs to everything including rip despite my previous post saying otherwise. This is a positive change considering we got an 8% increase to everything as compensation which should be a buff.

[neiljwd]

Thank you to the last few poster for disseminating and analyzing the PTR changes
Really helpful to half-core players like me to have some expertise dissect the information, cheers from all the silent readers

[Tyze]

I played around with Feral some bit.

And I feel like its too much effort in doing dps compare with many other specs.
Need to keep track of alot of things (not a bad thing necessary) but doesn't feel rewarding enough for me.


What do you guys think, wod vs legion?

[Ventris]

with the changes, would open wounds be a better first dragon choice than AB after 7.1?

[Lucrece]

I played around with Feral some bit.

And I feel like its too much effort in doing dps compare with many other specs.
Need to keep track of alot of things (not a bad thing necessary) but doesn't feel rewarding enough for me.


What do you guys think, wod vs legion?

You're basically as a feral doing quadruple the effort of a mongoloid assassination rogue to do less output than them with far more limitations and ramp up not to mention inferior utility and survival.

Then again feral druids have for the most part always been eclipsed by rogues as they're essentially a weakened imitation of a rogue in origin from early vanilla. They've tried to differentiate it from rogue via bleeds and then lost some of that identity with the revamp of assassination.

Rogues are a fleshed out version of a combo point, energy based class. The feral druid toolkit is rudimentary by comparison.

[Deleted]

I played around with Feral some bit.

And I feel like its too much effort in doing dps compare with many other specs.
Need to keep track of alot of things (not a bad thing necessary) but doesn't feel rewarding enough for me.


What do you guys think, wod vs legion?

Feral had his best time during Cataclysm and MoP imo. The rotation wasn't super complicated (whilst still challenging) and the reward was a very high Output. During some point of cataclysm I even managed to top out the meters on a regular basis in Firelands and Dragon Soul.

I feel that since WoD kicked in, Feral has been destroyed in ist essence and now it even forces us to build a restoration druid spell (Regrowth) into our rotation and on some occassions even a Boomkin spell (Moonfire). I mean, I'm all for giving a class more Utility and a wider Array of spells, but please not something that makes absolutely no sense. It's also way too frustrating to accidently mess up your rotation (forgetting to blood talon rip or forgetting to upkeep savage roar 100%) and drop in dps more than almost any other class.

The only good thing I see about Feral compared to many other classes right now, we don't rely so much on random rng proccs screwing us, which makes it enjoyable to some extent.

Feral is one of the very few dps speccs that you can't just casually play and be good though. Either you practice a lot and know what you're doing or you gtfo.

I really hope that Blizzard makes Ferocious Bite great again and removes/redesigns Savage Roar as a mandatory buff. I just can't stand the way it is.

P.S. Legendaries for Feral are biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig. Having the ring (like I luckily received) is awesome. Energy management and pooling becomes much less of a hassle. So you better pray to rnjesus for some nice legendary drops, but that goes for most other classes aswell.

[Deleted]

Feral had his best time during Cataclysm and MoP imo. The rotation wasn't super complicated (whilst still challenging) and the reward was a very high Output. During some point of cataclysm I even managed to top out the meters on a regular basis in Firelands and Dragon Soul.

I feel that since WoD kicked in, Feral has been destroyed in ist essence and now it even forces us to build a restoration druid spell (Regrowth) into our rotation and on some occassions even a Boomkin spell (Moonfire). I mean, I'm all for giving a class more Utility and a wider Array of spells, but please not something that makes absolutely no sense. It's also way too frustrating to accidently mess up your rotation (forgetting to blood talon rip or forgetting to upkeep savage roar 100%) and drop in dps more than almost any other class.

The only good thing I see about Feral compared to many other classes right now, we don't rely so much on random rng proccs screwing us, which makes it enjoyable to some extent.

Feral is one of the very few dps speccs that you can't just casually play and be good though. Either you practice a lot and know what you're doing or you gtfo.

I really hope that Blizzard makes Ferocious Bite great again and removes/redesigns Savage Roar as a mandatory buff. I just can't stand the way it is.

P.S. Legendaries for Feral are biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig. Having the ring (like I luckily received) is awesome. Energy management and pooling becomes much less of a hassle. So you better pray to rnjesus for some nice legendary drops, but that goes for most other classes aswell.

Few points from your post, Feral has used blood talons (and by extension healing touch/regrowth) as part of it's rotation for three expansions now, it's part of the feral identity now learn to deal with it. Moonfire is just another dot and I really don't understand the dislike for it. Mechanically it has no difference between rake and moonfire other than the range.

Really sure not what you mean by "it's been destroyed in its essence" but it sounds like you're an idiot so i'm gonna pretend i didn't read that.

You aren't supposed to have 100% uptime on savage roar and dropping sr uptime isn't bad as long as you don't have to refresh bleeds while savage roar is down which really isn't particularly hard. Blood talons is punishing if you fuck it up, but also really shouldn't be hard to fuck up as it just means NOT pressing a button for a period of time. Really, why is it hard to not press a button???

I agree that ferocious bite needs a buff, but blizzard can't buff it while sabertooth is a talent so /shrug, gotta delete sabertooth before you can tune ferocious bite. Disagree on savage roar, the spec is dull without savage roar, it removes a lot of thought from the rotation.

In regards to legendaries you're flat out wrong. Legendaries for feral are NOT big. The bis feral legendary (the gloves) is a 4% or so dps gain on single target. That is insanely minnimal, The ring is also not big in any way. the ring doesn't aid pooling as you're ability to pool is limited by uptime, it's merely an energy gain on the opener and qol, it's not a meaningfull dps gain.

[Deleted]

The gloves might not be that great on singeltarget, but in mytic+ its a must have i would say. Its just insane how meny combopoints you get when you keep rip, rake and trash on 3-4targets!

[Lycanoth]

I was extremely disappointed when I got that 200 energy ring. Between the other 3 I have which is the wrist, gloves and belt it resulted in a 15k-20k dps loss depending on what I swapped off for it.

Pretty lackluster legendary compared to most of the other feral ones tbh.

[Deleted]

Few points from your post, Feral has used blood talons (and by extension healing touch/regrowth) as part of it's rotation for three expansions now, it's part of the feral identity now learn to deal with it. Moonfire is just another dot and I really don't understand the dislike for it. Mechanically it has no difference between rake and moonfire other than the range.

Really sure not what you mean by "it's been destroyed in its essence" but it sounds like you're an idiot so i'm gonna pretend i didn't read that.

You aren't supposed to have 100% uptime on savage roar and dropping sr uptime isn't bad as long as you don't have to refresh bleeds while savage roar is down which really isn't particularly hard. Blood talons is punishing if you fuck it up, but also really shouldn't be hard to fuck up as it just means NOT pressing a button for a period of time. Really, why is it hard to not press a button???

I agree that ferocious bite needs a buff, but blizzard can't buff it while sabertooth is a talent so /shrug, gotta delete sabertooth before you can tune ferocious bite. Disagree on savage roar, the spec is dull without savage roar, it removes a lot of thought from the rotation.

In regards to legendaries you're flat out wrong. Legendaries for feral are NOT big. The bis feral legendary (the gloves) is a 4% or so dps gain on single target. That is insanely minnimal, The ring is also not big in any way. the ring doesn't aid pooling as you're ability to pool is limited by uptime, it's merely an energy gain on the opener and qol, it's not a meaningfull dps gain.

Alright, Twist my words in whatever way float your boat. I never said Blood Talons don't belong in the rotation, it's Regrowth doesn't.

I stopped reading after your insult, so take it as future advice to remain mature if you want to argue/discuss a point.