Suramar Elven Armies; The Blood Elves rise!

[Mehrunes]

I assume he spoke with Renthar and Aurora because they were both closer to Silvermoon and also in more dire straits than the High Elven contingent in Dalaran. His immediate concern was to provide both resources and security to Quel'Lithien Lodge to help them with the Scourge remnants in the area. I don't doubt that he was primarily motivated by his own regrets (especially in regard to the High Elves at Quel'Lithien, who he put in the line of fire due to the exile), but Lor'themar also wouldn't pursue such a course without it also benefiting the Blood Elven people. If he thought reintroducing the High Elves to Silvermoon would be a net negative he wouldn't have acted based on the same logic he used to exile them in the first place.

That doesn't address him not doing that to Vereesa.

[Aucald]

That doesn't address him not doing that to Vereesa.

Probably because he knew that Vereesa wouldn't be receptive to the message, and because he was more directly concerned about Quel'Lithien (which is why he went there first and foremost). When Renthar and Aurora shot him down he wisely decided not to pursue it any further. A visit to Dalaran would've required far more set-up and political ramifications than visiting a ramshackle lodge that was already nominally a holding of Silvermoon.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I just think the big thing here is pretty much "oh god no, do not stick Vereesa on us" anything she touches has pretty much sucked and adding her into part of the Blood elf story would do nothing good. Take literally any other High elf but do not give us Vereesa, and as far as warcrimes is concerned, Lorthemar is currently agreeing. Seeing as Vereesa and the SC are still not allowed to come back.

[Aucald]

Well if the story was personally left up to me I wouldn't invite her back in either - her actions in the Purge of Dalaran make her very unpalatable to me as a character. But my own personal reservations aside I can see benefits into bringing the Silver Covenant, and even Vereesa herself, back into the fold of the Blood Elven people. If nothing else it would be a diplomatic coup for Silvermoon.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Well if the story was personally left up to me I wouldn't invite her back in either - her actions in the Purge of Dalaran make her very unpalatable to me as a character. But my own personal reservations aside I can see benefits into bringing the Silver Covenant, and even Vereesa herself, back into the fold of the Blood Elven people. If nothing else it would be a diplomatic coup for Silvermoon.

wouldnt it be better to have Auric be in charge in that case? He at-least has made a effort besides out of selfish desire to come back to quel'thalas.

[Aucald]

wouldnt it be better to have Auric be in charge in that case? He at-least has made a effort besides out of selfish desire to come back to quel'thalas.

I'd personally prefer Auric over Vereesa, sure; but I'm not quite sure it'd make the same statement toward reunification. Auric Sunchaser and his people definitely seem less partisan than the Silver Covenant, for better or worse.

[Koryn123]

The difference between Halduron being a Ranger-General and Vereesa being a "Ranger-General" is that one earned their rank based on their merit, the other gave it to themselves because their husband in charge of the city didn't give them their way.


Before the Scourge invasion, Lor'themar served as Sylvanas' second-in-command as he'd attained the rank of Ranger-Lord, the most prestigious position available to a non-Windrunner Farstrider. Without Sylvanas, the Farstriders were left without a ranger-general, so Lor'themar was in charge of them all for the brief period before Kael'thas arrived from Dalaran in the ruined Silvermoon. Before Kael'thas left, he appointed Lor'themar as Regent-Lord of Quel'thalas, and went to Dalaran to help Garithos.

Had he stayed, Lor'themar likely would have been ranger-general, but as he was tasked with being head of state in Kael'thas' absence, that duty fell to Lor'themar's second-in-command and trusted friend, Halduron, who had also earned his rank (we're not sure what it was, but it was probably Ranger-Lord), and then deemed the best candidate for the position with Lor'themar tied up as regent-lord.

Up until then, the ranger-general had always been a Windrunner, but with Sylvanas dead, Alleria presumed dead, Vereesa in Dalaran and not having been raised from birth with the intention that she become ranger-general (so she never pursued her Farstrider service to the point where she would grow in skill and rise through the ranks and earn her command fair and square, so in other words, she was completely unqualified), and Zendarin not being a ranger at all (if he was even around), they had to break from tradition and appoint the best fit for the job.


Vereesa has never done anything worthy of receiving such a prestigious title as Ranger-General, and really, declaring herself one is an insult to not only her family, but personally to Sylvanas and Alleria that she bear the title ranger-general in the name of a faction so diametrically opposed to Quel'thalas whose only goal is to cause it harm wherever they can, when her sisters dedicated themselves to its defense and never once forsook it. Her sisters were willing to give their lives for their homeland, while Vereesa turned on her people immediately when her Alliance friends betrayed them in WC3 then again in BC.




Sylvanas also inherited the rank, so she was always assured it, but because she was raised knowing she would be the ranger-general one day, she had to push herself to train hard and attain the skills both in combat and in leadership and command to do a good job. Alleria didn't want to be a commander, she preferred to be out in the field, so she abdicated the destiny to Sylvanas.



The only reason Vereesa has a group of high elves who follow her is because she's a Windrunner, and her husband was in charge of Dalaran, so she could get away with establishing a bloodthirsty racist militia brute squad, when Rhonin was trying to convince the Sunreavers that they were welcome in Dalaran.

Headcanon could say that the reason Vereesa thought she could call herself a ranger-general was because it was traditionally a Windrunner-only rank, so she, as the last fully living Windrunner around, was afforded it by birthright. Still, a prince who learns nothing about politics, war, and economics is gonna make a shitty king. Vereesa wasn't groomed from childhood to become a leader like Sylvanas was.



Vereesa's Ranger-Related Resumé (so not counting things completely unrelated to being a skilled ranger, like Terenas asking her to be an ambassador)

(It's kind of confusing, because her WoWPedia says she was only a year out of her apprenticeship after the Second War, then later says she became a grunt-rank Farstrider shortly before the Second War, so I'm not sure which one must be right, but we'll go with the most beneficial one for now.)

1. Was called reckless both in attitude and in fighting style by her instructors, comparing her impatience to that of a human.
2. Had never fought or even seen a troll before, so it stands to reason that she wouldn't have fought an orc before either.

(This conflicts with the Tides of Darkness novel that takes place probably a year earlier where she and Alleria are attacked by forest trolls, with Vereesa being either a civilian or unarmed at the time, and rescued by Sylvanas. So we'll assume that's a soft retcon so she'd just never fought a troll before, but had seen them.)

3. Graduated from training and inducted into the entry-level ranks of the Farstriders shortly before the Second War.
4. Did not take part in the war, due to lack of experience.
5. Her first assignment was to escort Rhonin to a port town where he'd get on a boat, and that'd be the end of her mission. She was frustrated because she wanted to go kill orcs.
6. She escorts Rhonin there, with no major incident requiring remarkable combat skills as far as I can remember.
7. Rather than obey her orders which were to return to Quel'thalas upon completing her mission, Vereesa went AWOL to follow Rhonin because she thought his mission must be more important than he was letting on. They were separated during the flight, so she tracked him all the way to Grim Batol, so even slower than just going with him.
8. With the help of Vereesa and a group of dwarves, Rhonin succeeded in his mission. This included Vereesa fighting orcs with the dwarves and Rhonin.
9. Around the end of BC, Vereesa tracked Zendarin to Grim Batol again, seeking revenge for him trying and failing to kidnap her sons. So more tracking.
10. She helps a draenei kill both Zendarin and a chromatic dragon, Dargonax.

(After that is when she declared herself a ranger-general.)

11. Led a group of Silver Covenant rangers to assist Halduron and the Farstriders at Zul'Aman, though it's unknown if they fought any trolls, or just stood outside with the Farstriders. The only ones who are known to be involved inside were Vol'jin and some adventurers.
12. Led a group of night elf sentinels in Dustwallow Marsh to hunt down Thalen Songweaver during the Theramore attack.
13. Carried out Jaina Proudmoore's orders (which she didn't have the authority to give, nor did Vereesa have the authority to carry them out) in the Purge. She didn't do anything herself that we can see, but coordinated the player's efforts by ordering the murders of innocent shopkeepers, bank-patrons, animals, rounding up of innocent civilians, and murders of Sunreaver combatants defending their homes in the Sunreaver Sanctuary.
14. Does battle with the blood elves on the Isle of Thunder, taking great pleasure in making her kin suffer as revenge for Rhonin being killed by an orc with a weapon made by a blood elf. One could say though, that she got some leadership experience continuing to coordinate players and Alliance to harm blood elves. As though the blood elves would see that as a plus.
15. Accompanied Varian's forces (not as a commander), fighting Galakras with he and Jaina.

(And her different appearance is an easter egg referencing her WotLK beta model. Aethas also appears in his beta appearance Horde-side, and you notice that his hair color is brown there, rather than red like it was in his final WotLK appearance).

16. Lead the Silver Covenant and Farstrider rangers who were looking for Alleria. Not only were the Farstriders present subordinate to her, but they also appear subordinate to her lackeys. So they served the brute squad minions of a grunt-rank ranger turned terrorist. And whatever else she does in the hunter campaigns that isn't on her WoWPedia.

17. Leads the Silver Covenant forces working with the Darnassian night elves in Suramar, still hanging onto her hatred of blood elves for Rhonin and now Varian's death, despite most blind Alliance propaganda-spouting dogs (like Genn and Admiral Taylor) blaming mainly Sylvanas for that.



So I don't see much warranting a promotion all the way through all these ranks.

1. Grunt-rank Ranger
2. Farstrider
3. Lieutenant
4. Captain
5. Ranger-Captain
6. Ranger-Lord
7. Ranger-General

At least not enough for the blood elves to recognize her self-given nonexistent authority, as far as what the definition of ranger-general has been in their culture for thousands of years.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd personally prefer Auric over Vereesa, sure; but I'm not quite sure it'd make the same statement toward reunification. Auric Sunchaser and his people definitely seem less partisan than the Silver Covenant, for better or worse.

All Vereesa wanting to get back together would say is that she's still a foolish child who sees nobody's perspective but her own, like in War Crimes where she wanted to go back to Silvermoon, despite making herself public enemy #1 in Silvermoon at every chance she gets, and demonstrating that she hates every one of her kin's guts for the actions of someone she let get off scot-free whenever she can.

Auric is the only notable high elf who's not a crazy, violent whining baby. And he actually has authority, too, being a Captain in the Farstriders (an actual captain, not a self-proclaimed one).

[Aucald]

"Headcannon" is an accusation that I see bandied about a bit more than I think is necessary, but that aside let's see if we can explain things from a position that is a bit more neutrally-oriented.

Vereesa's Ranger-Related Resumé (so not counting things completely unrelated to being a skilled ranger, like Terenas asking her to be an ambassador)

(It's kind of confusing, because her WoWPedia says she was only a year out of her apprenticeship after the Second War, then later says she became a grunt-rank Farstrider shortly before the Second War, so I'm not sure which one must be right, but we'll go with the most beneficial one for now.)

1. Was called reckless both in attitude and in fighting style by her instructors, comparing her impatience to that of a human.

She was still said to be top of her class during training in the Farstrider corps despite her foibles. "Reckless" and "impatient" are also qualities that have been applied to more than one top-tier champion in the Warcraft universe, so I don't necessarily consider them automatic demerits in context with her top marks.

2. Had never fought or even seen a troll before, so it stands to reason that she wouldn't have fought an orc before either.

(This conflicts with the Tides of Darkness novel that takes place probably a year earlier where she and Alleria are attacked by forest trolls, with Vereesa being either a civilian or unarmed at the time, and rescued by Sylvanas. So we'll assume that's a soft retcon so she'd just never fought a troll before, but had seen them.)

She is inexperienced at this point which is understood being fresh out of training more or less.

3. Graduated from training and inducted into the entry-level ranks of the Farstriders shortly before the Second War.
4. Did not take part in the war, due to lack of experience.
5. Her first assignment was to escort Rhonin to a port town where he'd get on a boat, and that'd be the end of her mission. She was frustrated because she wanted to go kill orcs.
6. She escorts Rhonin there, with no major incident requiring remarkable combat skills as far as I can remember.

Graduated with top marks, and swiftly chosen by her commanding Farstrider to go on a dangerous mission outside of Quel'thalas (an undertaking relatively uncommon among a somewhat xenophobic people).

7. Rather than obey her orders which were to return to Quel'thalas upon completing her mission, Vereesa went AWOL to follow Rhonin because she thought his mission must be more important than he was letting on. They were separated during the flight, so she tracked him all the way to Grim Batol, so even slower than just going with him.

"AWOL" is a pretty severe term, and she received no reprimand from what I recall from interpreting her mission to include divining Rhonin's ultimate goals. This also underestimates the relative difficulty tracking an adept Mage across unfamiliar territory - no mean feat for neophyte Ranger.

8. With the help of Vereesa and a group of dwarves, Rhonin succeeded in his mission. This included Vereesa fighting orcs with the dwarves and Rhonin.
9. Around the end of BC, Vereesa tracked Zendarin to Grim Batol again, seeking revenge for him trying and failing to kidnap her sons. So more tracking.
10. She helps a draenei kill both Zendarin and a chromatic dragon, Dargonax.

Dargonax was not a simple Chromatic dragon (technically he was of the Twilight Dragonflight) nor was he just a dragon. He was nearly the size of an Aspect, was able to battle Sintharia to a standstill and was only contained by her use of the Demon Soul, and had the power to essentially "absorb" other dragons' abilities into himself.

(After that is when she declared herself a ranger-general.)

This oft-repeated statement is possible the primary sticking-point I have with the views on Vereesa, that she somehow promoted herself to the rank of Ranger-General within the Silver Covenant or was otherwise chosen only because of her family line. She was the primary political force behind the creation of the Silver Covenant, and her leadership of it would've have to have been ratified by her people, and the leader of the Kirin Tor itself (first Rhonin, then Jaina, then Khadgar himself). One could make the claim her initial appointment might've been less than above board, but the fact that she's kept the position to the current day seems to speak of her qualifications for it. Despite not getting much visible action in-game the circumstances at least seem to speak well for her.

11. Led a group of Silver Covenant rangers to assist Halduron and the Farstriders at Zul'Aman, though it's unknown if they fought any trolls, or just stood outside with the Farstriders. The only ones who are known to be involved inside were Vol'jin and some adventurers.

I continue to feel that Halduron's invitation to her and the Silver Covenant also implies his tacit approval of her leadership.

12. Led a group of night elf sentinels in Dustwallow Marsh to hunt down Thalen Songweaver during the Theramore attack.
13. Carried out Jaina Proudmoore's orders (which she didn't have the authority to give, nor did Vereesa have the authority to carry them out) in the Purge. She didn't do anything herself that we can see, but coordinated the player's efforts by ordering the murders of innocent shopkeepers, bank-patrons, animals, rounding up of innocent civilians, and murders of Sunreaver combatants defending their homes in the Sunreaver Sanctuary.

The Purge of Dalaran is probably her worst moment, and I can't make any other statement to that fact. It stands as-is.

14. Does battle with the blood elves on the Isle of Thunder, taking great pleasure in making her kin suffer as revenge for Rhonin being killed by an orc with a weapon made by a blood elf. One could say though, that she got some leadership experience continuing to coordinate players and Alliance to harm blood elves. As though the blood elves would see that as a plus.

The Isle of Thunder, at least, was full of partisan conflicts between the High and Blood Elves. The Blood Elves shed the blood of her forces and the Kirin Tor, and she moved her forces to shed theirs. In this particular scenario things were more or less balanced on the edge of open conflict. Everything stated above could just as easily be laid at the feet of Lor'themar, Rommath, and to a lesser degree Aethas.

15. Accompanied Varian's forces (not as a commander), fighting Galakras with he and Jaina.

(And her different appearance is an easter egg referencing her WotLK beta model. Aethas also appears in his beta appearance Horde-side, and you notice that his hair color is brown there, rather than red like it was in his final WotLK appearance).

Aethas and Vereesa represent their respective groups affiliated with the Kirin Tor in the Siege of Orgrimmar. Gameplay/faction device aside both of their presences there speak to their importance in the campaign. They are either both equally important or equally unimportant in this particular sense.

16. Lead the Silver Covenant and Farstrider rangers who were looking for Alleria. Not only were the Farstriders present subordinate to her, but they also appear subordinate to her lackeys. So they served the brute squad minions of a grunt-rank ranger turned terrorist. And whatever else she does in the hunter campaigns that isn't on her WoWPedia.

Vereesa acquits herself quite well on Niskara, and even befriends Orestes to the point of promising to avenge him (a Blood Elf) when he is killed in action. She also mends fences somewhat with Halduron in the process, and both of them eulogize their fallen comrade. I doubt the Farstriders of Silvermoon consider her to be a "terrorist" given their acceptance of her presence.

17. Leads the Silver Covenant forces working with the Darnassian night elves in Suramar, still hanging onto her hatred of blood elves for Rhonin and now Varian's death, despite most blind Alliance propaganda-spouting dogs (like Genn and Admiral Taylor) blaming mainly Sylvanas for that.

A step back to be sure, but her partisan views are her own to have. Liadrin definitely shows much more class than either Tyrande or Vereesa when it comes to their presence at Suramar.

All Vereesa wanting to get back together would say is that she's still a foolish child who sees nobody's perspective but her own, like in War Crimes where she wanted to go back to Silvermoon, despite making herself public enemy #1 in Silvermoon at every chance she gets, and demonstrating that she hates every one of her kin's guts for the actions of someone she let get off scot-free whenever she can.

Vereesa in "War Crimes" allows her passions to drive her into thoughtless actions - not completely unexpected for facing the specter of a trial for the individual involved in her beloved husband's brutal death at Theramore. I'd say a great deal of that venom is also reserved for herself, and she seems to recognize that she is allowing hatred and despair to drive her near the novel's conclusion. That she's got a way to go I wouldn't argue with, and she's very far from a model hero. But in the end it's the flaws in the mold that make for an interesting and believable character, even if you don't necessarily agree with their decisions or actions. I don't like Vereesa as a "person" within the story, but I find her interesting enough as a character in her own right - and despite that dislike she's also been pretty consistent in her portrayal unlike some other luminaries we could name (Jaina, Garrosh, etc. etc.)

[Combatbutler]

She was still said to be top of her class during training in the Farstrider corps despite her foibles. "Reckless" and "impatient" are also qualities that have been applied to more than one top-tier champion in the Warcraft universe, so I don't necessarily consider them automatic demerits in context with her top marks.

This doesn't tell us much, since we don't know anything about the Rangers she graduated with and as a Windrunner she was bound to have skill, but from what we have seen so far, it is not as extraordinary.

Graduated with top marks, and swiftly chosen by her commanding Farstrider to go on a dangerous mission outside of Quel'thalas (an undertaking relatively uncommon among a somewhat xenophobic people).

At the time the elves were deployed out of Quel'thalas en masse, this all takes place during the time with elves fully commiting their forces to the Alliance, the mission itself wasn't labelled as dangerous, since her orders were simply to escort Rhonin through Alliance controlled territory, it just got out of hand later on because she herself chose to stick around.

"AWOL" is a pretty severe term, and she received no reprimand from what I recall from interpreting her mission to include divining Rhonin's ultimate goals. This also underestimates the relative difficulty tracking an adept Mage across unfamiliar territory - no mean feat for neophyte Ranger.

One could argue the only reason she wasn't chewed out was that the mission turned out to not what has been expected and the elves were pleased to have been involved in such an great event. Otherwise she ignored her orders, but that is something she has in common with Alleria.

This oft-repeated statement is possible the primary sticking-point I have with the views on Vereesa, that she somehow promoted herself to the rank of Ranger-General within the Silver Covenant or was otherwise chosen only because of her family line. She was the primary political force behind the creation of the Silver Covenant, and her leadership of it would've have to have been ratified by her people, and the leader of the Kirin Tor itself (first Rhonin, then Jaina, then Khadgar himself). One could make the claim her initial appointment might've been less than above board, but the fact that she's kept the position to the current day seems to speak of her qualifications for it. Despite not getting much visible action in-game the circumstances at least seem to speak well for her.

Still even with what she has achieved there is no reason to suddenly be granted the title of Ranger General,except her bloodline. She was not in charge of other Rangers before founding the silver covenant, operating often alone or with Rhonin, there really isn't a reason for her to skip pretty much every rank in the farstriders and be considered supreme commander. It is likely that she was chosen by the other high elves, but that has once again most likely to do with the fact she had very good connection to the head of the kirin tor council and was of the windrunner line, which has always held the title and Thas'dorah hints it had been hereditary.

I continue to feel that Halduron's invitation to her and the Silver Covenant also implies his tacit approval of her leadership.

How so? It is never even remotely mentioned she has good ties to Halduron, it is more a cooperation out of necessity.

The Isle of Thunder, at least, was full of partisan conflicts between the High and Blood Elves. The Blood Elves shed the blood of her forces and the Kirin Tor, and she moved her forces to shed theirs. In this particular scenario things were more or less balanced on the edge of open conflict. Everything stated above could just as easily be laid at the feet of Lor'themar, Rommath, and to a lesser degree Aethas.

By that logic the kirin tor themselves are responsible, since they did not upheld their neutrality in the first place favoring the Alliance over the Horde, with two head council member siding with the Alliance twice, first in Theramore and later in Darnassus confronting the horde. Not to mention Vereesa escalated the conflict, by violently purging the Sunreavers by any means necessary.

Aethas and Vereesa represent their respective groups affiliated with the Kirin Tor in the Siege of Orgrimmar. Gameplay/faction device aside both of their presences there speak to their importance in the campaign. They are either both equally important or equally unimportant in this particular sense.

Aethas at this point has no longer command over anything, the sunreavers were reabsorbed into the magisters and as such answer to Rommath and the Sunreaver onslaught was led by Lor'themar himself, he was just there to provide spellwork. Similar to Vereesa who was following orders of her superiors.

Vereesa acquits herself quite well on Niskara, and even befriends Orestes to the point of promising to avenge him (a Blood Elf) when he is killed in action. She also mends fences somewhat with Halduron in the process, and both of them eulogize their fallen comrade. I doubt the Farstriders of Silvermoon consider her to be a "terrorist" given their acceptance of her presence.

Terrorist might be a bit hard, but it is extremely unlikely she would be trusted, considering her track record. There is only contempt awaiting her in Quel'thalas.

A step back to be sure, but her partisan views are her own to have. Liadrin definitely shows much more class than either Tyrande or Vereesa when it comes to their presence at Suramar.

Windrunners tend to hold grudges and be unreasonable, every last sister has displayed this trait, Alleria being the worst of the bunch.

Vereesa in "War Crimes" allows her passions to drive her into thoughtless actions - not completely unexpected for facing the specter of a trial for the individual involved in her beloved husband's brutal death at Theramore. I'd say a great deal of that venom is also reserved for herself, and she seems to recognize that she is allowing hatred and despair to drive her near the novel's conclusion. That she's got a way to go I wouldn't argue with, and she's very far from a model hero. But in the end it's the flaws in the mold that make for an interesting and believable character, even if you don't necessarily agree with their decisions or actions. I don't like Vereesa as a "person" within the story, but I find her interesting enough as a character in her own right - and despite that dislike she's also been pretty consistent in her portrayal unlike some other luminaries we could name (Jaina, Garrosh, etc. etc.)

Vereesa is consistend in regards that she is still fixed on Rhonin and even today all her actions are ultimately tied to him, as long as that does not change there won't be relevant character growth. It just goes on and on, if she would finally switch her goal and would actually focus on her people and their future instead of budding heads with the blood elves all the time there might be some meaningful development for her and the high elves to be had, otherwise she is still stuck in the same routine.

[Rhlor]

Vereesa is pretty much the equivalent of Scout captain elsia in terms of ability, a bit worse, if we compare these two ingame. Though she is the better ranger than lor'thmear the guy has only one eye left after all. But she herself is nothing special, she is well most of the time just there, whether it is in books or ingame.

You can not compare to a captain with a soldier who deserts after her first mission




She is an expert in bow and sword

[Combatbutler]

You can not compare to a captain with a soldier who deserts after her first mission
She is an expert in bow and sword

Every Ranger is skilled with bow and sword, the same goes for Vereesa and Elsia is her equivalent during these missions

[Aucald]

This doesn't tell us much, since we don't know anything about the Rangers she graduated with and as a Windrunner she was bound to have skill, but from what we have seen so far, it is not as extraordinary.

This sounds like a case of trying to make absence of detail into a factor that it isn't. Not knowing the general level of her peers should not diminish her achievement - it's equally possible that they were all nigh peerless and she was still best among them. One could make a similar argument for Sylvanas considering she's lost or broke even in every conflict we've seen her as a part of in-game.

At the time the elves were deployed out of Quel'thalas en masse, this all takes place during the time with elves fully commiting their forces to the Alliance, the mission itself wasn't labelled as dangerous, since her orders were simply to escort Rhonin through Alliance controlled territory, it just got out of hand later on because she herself chose to stick around.

It got out of hand because of the nature of the mission itself - I don't recall Vereesa's presence as a factor making it worse, and she actively assisted in the completion of the mission as well.

One could argue the only reason she wasn't chewed out was that the mission turned out to not what has been expected and the elves were pleased to have been involved in such an great event. Otherwise she ignored her orders, but that is something she has in common with Alleria.

Which denotes she successfully returned with success beyond the expectations and parameters of the original mission.

Still even with what she has achieved there is no reason to suddenly be granted the title of Ranger General,except her bloodline. She was not in charge of other Rangers before founding the silver covenant, operating often alone or with Rhonin, there really isn't a reason for her to skip pretty much every rank in the farstriders and be considered supreme commander. It is likely that she was chosen by the other high elves, but that has once again most likely to do with the fact she had very good connection to the head of the kirin tor council and was of the windrunner line, which has always held the title and Thas'dorah hints it had been hereditary.

I wouldn't say that being part of the Windrunner line isn't a factor, I just don't agree with the implication that it is the *only* factor. Likely she was on a short list of possible candidates to serve as a military commander/advisor, and given that she both assembled the Silver Covenant and was a notable Farstrider who's acumen could be vetted by Rhonin (leader of the Kirin Tor at the time) she was tapped to lead them. Her continued presence in the role speaks for ability if nothing else.

How so? It is never even remotely mentioned she has good ties to Halduron, it is more a cooperation out of necessity.

The argument has been made that Halduron needed the experience of Vereesa's Silver Covenant Farstriders and their knowledge of the area, but his own Farstriders would probably have this experience already given they're pretty much of the same stock. So his immediate need would've been for either more personnel or something specific to Vereesa and her Silver Covenant forces. The former could've been supplied by Blood Knights or Deathguard support troops (both of which are allied with Silvermoon and near at hand). So *something* about the Silver Covenant and Vereesa specifically were on Halduron's mind when he made the decision to make that politically disadvantageous call. The rest is inference.

By that logic the kirin tor themselves are responsible, since they did not upheld their neutrality in the first place favoring the Alliance over the Horde, with two head council member siding with the Alliance twice, first in Theramore and later in Darnassus confronting the horde. Not to mention Vereesa escalated the conflict, by violently purging the Sunreavers by any means necessary.

The Kirin Tor *are* jointly responsible and did not uphold their supposed neutrality in the Purge of Dalaran, I don't think that particular aspect is really up for debate. By the time of the Isle of Thunder campaign (the primary point of contention here) the Kirin Tor had fully let go any pretense of neutrality and was operating solely as an Alliance proxy-force. That the High and Blood Elven contingents of the opposing forces would be at odds with one-another is somewhat expected, if unfortunate.

Aethas at this point has no longer command over anything, the sunreavers were reabsorbed into the magisters and as such answer to Rommath and the Sunreaver onslaught was led by Lor'themar himself, he was just there to provide spellwork. Similar to Vereesa who was following orders of her superiors.

Then it is a non-issue and can be dismissed.

Terrorist might be a bit hard, but it is extremely unlikely she would be trusted, considering her track record. There is only contempt awaiting her in Quel'thalas.

Windrunners tend to hold grudges and be unreasonable, every last sister has displayed this trait, Alleria being the worst of the bunch.

Regardless, it seems that at least Halduron and his Farstriders are warming up to her in Legion. I'm also not sure reintegration will be possible for Vereesa specifically as she's burned a lot of bridges in her career.

Vereesa is consistend in regards that she is still fixed on Rhonin and even today all her actions are ultimately tied to him, as long as that does not change there won't be relevant character growth. It just goes on and on, if she would finally switch her goal and would actually focus on her people and their future instead of budding heads with the blood elves all the time there might be some meaningful development for her and the high elves to be had, otherwise she is still stuck in the same routine.

Rhonin is dead now and though she mourns him, as is proper given that he was both her husband and father of her children, he's no longer sole arbiter or origin of her actions (being dead). I think both Legion and to a lesser degree WoD have opened a bit more development to her character - just as I hope the Suramar campaign and Nighthold will have more to reveal.

[Arrashi]

Honestly i still don't understand what are they doing there in a first place. I mean they got memo about suramar and just...packed their armies ? And decided to go there for what exactly ?

[Aucald]

Honestly i still don't understand what are they doing there in a first place. I mean they got memo about suramar and just...packed their armies ? And decided to go there for what exactly ?

I imagine both factions have a vested interest in securing the loyalty of the Nightfallen rebels for their knowledge of the Arcane and history, and the more pragmatic purpose of halting the Legion advance in the region and scuppering the alliance between the Legion and the Nightborne loyalists. Utilizing their own respective Elven forces to do that is just what they thought was the best approach.

[Mehrunes]

Probably because he knew that Vereesa wouldn't be receptive to the message, and because he was more directly concerned about Quel'Lithien (which is why he went there first and foremost). When Renthar and Aurora shot him down he wisely decided not to pursue it any further. A visit to Dalaran would've required far more set-up and political ramifications than visiting a ramshackle lodge that was already nominally a holding of Silvermoon.

Vereesa probably not being receptive to the message led to him prohibiting her from entering Quel'thalas? What? That explanation would make sense if she just didn't receive an invitation invitation like Quel'lithien (or via letter). That is not the case.

[Koryn123]

The reason Halduron requested the Silver Covenant's assistance was because Garrosh had the Blood Elves out all over Azeroth fighting his wars against the humans and their allies, much like the humans had all the other Alliance races out fighting the orcs and their allies. Pretty much everyone is dragged into the human/orc feud now, and there's really very little motivation shown for the other races apart from helping their allies, which can only go so far before it starts becoming difficult to suspend disbelief as to why they're still throwing their lives away for them.

A lot of Halduron's rangers were deployed away from Quel'thalas, so with the resurgent Amani threat, he needed troops who knew the area well, and that's the only reason he got the Silver Covenant. It was nothing to do with Vereesa herself, who'd done nothing but harm Quel'thalas before then, and has only harmed Quel'thalas after that point.

The Forsaken in the Ghostlands were busy with the Scourge, and the blood knights were also busy fighting Garrosh's wars. The rangers are the most experienced at fighting trolls, so the Silver Covenant were a boon, if the Amani ever came out of Zul'Aman at that time, which we have no confirmation of.



Rhonin is evidently still at the forefront of every action she takes. She STILL hates the blood elves for his death, even in Legion. She hasn't let that go, and fully intends on continuing to give the blood elves a hard time for that, despite letting the actual single individual responsible for killing Rhonin go completely unharmed.

Until she stops taking out her "vengeance" (but really just childish whining) on the blood elves for something they didn't do, she'll never be anything but a whiny brat who thinks she deserves special treatment just for being related to people who've actually DONE something for their kingdom.

She needs to grow up and move on. I wouldn't mind her continuing to hate the blood elves as much, if she hadn't let Garrosh go. That was the point where she lost the last tiniest shred of credibility she ever had with me. When she forgave (or let go of her hatred or whatever) the murderer (Garrosh), but continued to see those with the same eye color as the one who built the murder weapon (all blood elves) as if each and every one of them were directly responsible for her husband's death, and actually convincing herself of that belief and holding it to be unassailably true and undeniable fact.

[Aucald]

Vereesa probably not being receptive to the message led to him prohibiting her from entering Quel'thalas? What? That explanation would make sense if she just didn't receive an invitation invitation like Quel'lithien (or via letter). That is not the case.

No, my answer concerned why Lor'themar didn't go to Vereesa and/or Dalaran first and instead focused on Quel'Lithien and the plight of Renthar Hawkspear and Aurora Skycaller instead. Both because he thought the latter two would've been more receptive to his entreaties (e.g. he thought they would ultimately accept the help and not react with outright hostility, though he fully anticipated that things would be tense). Instead of opening formal diplomatic channels and setting up visitation with a de-facto head of state in another region he visited a holding nominally still under Silvermoon's control and a people he hoped would ultimately be receptive to unification or assistance.

This had nothing to do with Lor'themar's later reaction to Vereesa being present in Quel'thalas without explicit permission from Silvermoon - that occurred well after the failed negotiations at Quel'Lithien.

[Combatbutler]

This sounds like a case of trying to make absence of detail into a factor that it isn't. Not knowing the general level of her peers should not diminish her achievement - it's equally possible that they were all nigh peerless and she was still best among them. One could make a similar argument for Sylvanas considering she's lost or broke even in every conflict we've seen her as a part of in-game.

Of course that is also possible, but considering her achievements later on and how she fared against her prodigal sister Sylvanas in warcrimes, I wouldn't put her on a pedestal.

It got out of hand because of the nature of the mission itself - I don't recall Vereesa's presence as a factor making it worse, and she actively assisted in the completion of the mission as well.

Well not through battles, she had lost her bow early on and as a result more or less just tagged along, she had some interactions, but at the end of it all didn't play a critical role in the mission.

Which denotes she successfully returned with success beyond the expectations and parameters of the original mission.

She didn't do much in that mission though, except for tagging along.

I wouldn't say that being part of the Windrunner line isn't a factor, I just don't agree with the implication that it is the *only* factor. Likely she was on a short list of possible candidates to serve as a military commander/advisor, and given that she both assembled the Silver Covenant and was a notable Farstrider who's acumen could be vetted by Rhonin (leader of the Kirin Tor at the time) she was tapped to lead them. Her continued presence in the role speaks for ability if nothing else.

That is the thing though Vereesa was no notable farstrider, she never rose through their ranks and had no reputation on her own like Alleria or Sylvanas. She was never prmomoted before her exile etc. and what she has displayed are not extrodinary ranger skills. She is good at tracking, she is nothing special with a bow and has a connection to nature and we never saw her actually leading an army on her own before.

The argument has been made that Halduron needed the experience of Vereesa's Silver Covenant Farstriders and their knowledge of the area, but his own Farstriders would probably have this experience already given they're pretty much of the same stock. So his immediate need would've been for either more personnel or something specific to Vereesa and her Silver Covenant forces. The former could've been supplied by Blood Knights or Deathguard support troops (both of which are allied with Silvermoon and near at hand). So *something* about the Silver Covenant and Vereesa specifically were on Halduron's mind when he made the decision to make that politically disadvantageous call. The rest is inference.

Farstriders scout and are very good at hit and run tactics, they are stealthy and patrolled the area ever since they were formed, the rangers know the land of the amani better than anyone else, neither the magisters, the blood knights or death guard were familiar with the terrain like Vereesa's rangers. That was precisely what Halduron wanted for that mission people who knew the territory like the bakc of their hands and since most of his farstriders were on missions far away he asked the next best people, the silver covenant rangers. Halduron even says the only reason he asked for them was because they know the land.

Regardless, it seems that at least Halduron and his Farstriders are warming up to her in Legion. I'm also not sure reintegration will be possible for Vereesa specifically as she's burned a lot of bridges in her career.

Vereesa herself has burned too many bridges and arguably the entire silver covenant as well, if they are ever allowed to return it is very doubtful any of them will end in a position of power.

Rhonin is dead now and though she mourns him, as is proper given that he was both her husband and father of her children, he's no longer sole arbiter or origin of her actions (being dead). I think both Legion and to a lesser degree WoD have opened a bit more development to her character - just as I hope the Suramar campaign and Nighthold will have more to reveal.

Even during the suramar campaign she is still driven by the death of her husband and Varian on top now, she hasn't really changed there is no new drive no new motives and over the course of the entire campaign she does not evolve, so I doubt the night hold will change her, after all she is still stuck in the time bubble which will remain in place until Elisande turns her back on the legion.

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly i still don't understand what are they doing there in a first place. I mean they got memo about suramar and just...packed their armies ? And decided to go there for what exactly ?

As far as we know the blood elves want to help the nigtborne out, the night elves want to destroy the nightwell and stop the legion and the high elves just tagged along with the night elves.

[Arrashi]

As far as we know the blood elves want to help the nigtborne out, the night elves want to destroy the nightwell and stop the legion and the high elves just tagged along with the night elves.

Eh, that's what i assumed. I kinda skipped everything liandrin said since i can't stomach her, but now it makes sense.

[Koryn123]

No, my answer concerned why Lor'themar didn't go to Vereesa and/or Dalaran first and instead focused on Quel'Lithien and the plight of Renthar Hawkspear and Aurora Skycaller instead. Both because he thought the latter two would've been more receptive to his entreaties (e.g. he thought they would ultimately accept the help and not react with outright hostility, though he fully anticipated that things would be tense). Instead of opening formal diplomatic channels and setting up visitation with a de-facto head of state in another region he visited a holding nominally still under Silvermoon's control and a people he hoped would ultimately be receptive to unification or assistance.

This had nothing to do with Lor'themar's later reaction to Vereesa being present in Quel'thalas without explicit permission from Silvermoon - that occurred well after the failed negotiations at Quel'Lithien.

He went to Quel'lithien to make amends for what he did to them by banishing them. He made the right choice because Quel'thalas was too fragile for the elves to be divided, but as soon as Quel'thalas was secure again, Lor'themar reached out in an attempt to repair some of the damage he did.

He wasn't reaching out to high elves in general, he was reaching out to those who'd suffered because of the schism.

The people who suffered nothing because of the schism were welcome to come to the Sunwell, namely Auric and those from Allerian Stronghold, and any high elf pilgrims from across Azeroth, likely including those who became the Silver Covenant (before the Silver Covenant proved that they didn't deserve their kin's charity).

He would have readily allowed those from Quel'lithien to return, and likely even done everything he could to make them comfortable in Quel'thalas again, and visit the Sunwell like the rest, but they didn't want his apologies.


Vereesa had made her choice long ago when she gave up her life in Quel'thalas to be Rhonin's arm candy in Dalaran, and solidified her decision when she started hating her people along with the rest of the Alliance when the Alliance betrayed them in WC3 and then BC. There was nothing for Lor'themar to reach out to her about. He wasn't looking for reunification, he was looking to take responsibility for his actions and help those he hurt. He wasn't out to apologize to people who didn't deserve an apology, like the Silver Covenant who were safe in Dalaran for 7 years while the Blood Elves toiled and fought and died to restore Quel'thalas to its former glory.