"Legion has the most unbalanced PvP ever"

[Deleted]

Rogues whining because they can't CC to death everyone they wish anymore, this is really hilarious. No wonder some of you think BC pvp was somehow "good", it wasn't. Well except for the FOTM demo warlocks, warrior, druids and rogues.

Good pvp for you is when your class is favored?Okay good to know. Because apparently hybrid classes should be inferior to "pure dps" for some stupid reason. Hybrid dps spec is as much a dps as a pure dps spec. Or do you forget that pure dps also have utility that hybrid don't have?

Despite the pruning rogues still have much more CC and defensives than any class, so please stop the whining just because you can't tunnel anyone with your CDs whenever you want.

- - - Updated - - -

Also rogues are pure cancer for most caster (aside...frost mage who would have guessed?).

You are the only class which hard counters more than 4 other classes and you think its bad just because some paladin can slap you? Okay lets bring back the absurd damage sin rogues had in the pre patch and suddenly all rogues will find legion pvp "great" just like those affli warlocks . :yawn:

[koontakent]

Rogues whining because they can't CC to death everyone they wish anymore, this is really hilarious. No wonder some of you think BC pvp was somehow "good", it wasn't. Well except for the FOTM demo warlocks, warrior, druids and rogues.

Good pvp for you is when your class is favored?Okay good to know. Because apparently hybrid classes should be inferior to "pure dps" for some stupid reason. Hybrid dps spec is as much a dps as a pure dps spec. Or do you forget that pure dps also have utility that hybrid don't have?

Despite the pruning rogues still have much more CC and defensives than any class, so please stop the whining just because you can't tunnel anyone with your CDs whenever you want.

By demo warlock do you mean SL/SL lock?

[Deleted]

By demo warlock do you mean SL/SL lock?

Of course. Wasn't the most dangerous class but the most stupid easy op spec

[rda]

Look at a video how balanced and how much pvp you got on high rating when assassin was considered strong prior to 7.1. patch.

This is a good illustration of what current arenas are the vast majority of the time. There's little difference in 3s.

Good video.

It's a bit hard to enjoy playing with such a braindead meta.

[Krusza]

That's not because the game is bad, just because someone is good, sadly.

You just need to get good at your class, and learn to play. Simple.

If only that was how it worked.

If you're trying to defend current gameplay, then you're shit. Fact.

[Lilly32]

s5 DKs and Shadowmourne Warriors are proly the most OP things in the history of gaming. Theres videos of warriors taking out 4 or 5 people at once.

[Gungnir]

Dude there is already too much CC in the game despite pruning. They removed mostly utility abilities rather than CC. Adding more CC just makes things worse, once your trinket is on CD, what do you do when people can use stuns all the time? Thats the most boring way of globaling people: stun+insane burst

Insane burst without stuns or CC will end up with you realizing that you can do NOTHING to stop the inevitable death you're heading towards.
Also I never specified STUNS, blind is for example a CC that is excellent in stopping aggression. With CC's, you atleast have a way to outplay people and to stop a mongocleave just blowing up your party. Nowadays it's basically whoever pops their one defensive CD first loses.

Rogues whining because they can't CC to death everyone they wish anymore, this is really hilarious. No wonder some of you think BC pvp was somehow "good", it wasn't. Well except for the FOTM demo warlocks, warrior, druids and rogues.

Good pvp for you is when your class is favored?Okay good to know. Because apparently hybrid classes should be inferior to "pure dps" for some stupid reason. Hybrid dps spec is as much a dps as a pure dps spec. Or do you forget that pure dps also have utility that hybrid don't have?

Despite the pruning rogues still have much more CC and defensives than any class, so please stop the whining just because you can't tunnel anyone with your CDs whenever you want.

Despite being an obvious troll at this point, I'll take your bait.
Assassination is considered the most successful rogue spec right now in PvP. Is it because it has mad control or defensives?
No it's because you can tunnel someone into the fucking ground because most classes have A defensive and mediocre mobility which means that they can't stop that.

In fact, you barely ever see Outlaw or Sub rogues anymore despite them having far superior control, mainly because playing a control oriented comp in arenas right now is far inferior to mongocleaves.

Also, regarding the bolded part.. what?
Have you seen the amount of hybrids currently in the upper part of the ladders? Let me give you a clue, they're not there because of their "inferior utility".

[Cyanu]

let's just ignore that you are a 1500 rated player that has no clue about pvp balance...wait let's not ignore that actually, you shouldnt talk when you dont even know jack shit ur saying, dh's 100% leech? this is pvp not pve we are talking about.
As for the op, people always find ways to complain...pvp is alright and people whine too much.

ehm, you must have quoted the wrong guy, the post above me was speaking about 100% DH leech, nvm carry on!

[Daan]

PvP was never balanced, but Legion has proven that the balance can be worse than worst.

[Tyrannica]

Of course. Wasn't the most dangerous class but the most stupid easy op spec

I loved it, i can name you other op classes and specs too, if its all op its balanced. The question rather is, was it fun too? BC introduced a lot of new pvp that worked, actually. Other expansions added almost nothing, while it did become too restricted, too, because of scrub tears.

Destroying classes by pruning of important abilities and one-sides pvp templates, is a competely other matter.

Thats just inacceptable, no more no less.

[Cyanu]

some things are subjective, TBC's pvp includes some of my worst memories of wow pvp (but then i was playing shadow priest back then which was about as garbage as a spec can be so that may color my experience)

i hated every moment of: stupid OP resilience that completely ruined most direct damage specs and the never ending games that were decided on the healers mana and mana drain effects, stupid OP rogues entering arena's with Warglaives of Azzinoth and overall all we had was mostly a 5-6 spec meta, essentially if you were not a lock and had neither mortal strike nor Warglaives of Azzinoth your spec was hardly viable as DPS (ok maybe BM hunters were decent too), we even had specs that existed only to buff the 'real' DPS like shadow priest which was there only to buff locks and give mana to the healers or enhancement shaman which was mostly there to give windfury to rogues and warriors aka the 'real' DPS classess, how is that even remotely acceptable for today's standards?...

currently the gap between a bad and a good arena spec is not THAT dramatic (but it's still considerable), back then a good spec would own a bad one even if playing without a keyboard

i see too think there are things that could be better, but overall it's decent

[Tyrannica]

some things are subjective, TBC's pvp includes some of my worst memories of wow pvp (but then i was playing shadow priest back then which was about as garbage as a spec can be so that may color my experience)

Well, shadow priest were unfortunately indeed garbage in TBC pvp. My lock who was speced deep into destro(ruin) in those random bgs and sl/sl anywhere else just either saw them as a snack to fill up hp or bursts them down.

I think the first time i recognized shadow as a strong spec was in early MoP. I play shadow priest, warlock, dk, rogue, druid as mains. Yeah, in MoP they were one of the strongest specs and quite good in wod, too, allthough they had too much pruning there of their abilities(void shift for example).

Now i am not sure, there is a bit too much revamp time dealing dmg for this bursty meta that is legion to stand on their own(like random bgs), but they still work in certain arena comps.


PvP resilence was a gift from the heavens it stopped too much burst of melee dominance without relying on silly mechanics like ilvl caps or pvp templates that were enfored on you right now by pvp scrub devs.
It seems your memory on warriors is a bit off, rogue dmg/burst did not dominate, but warriors, rogues time was in world of roguecraft aka vanilla. What did STILL dominate was their cc stunlock and beein kinda tough to kill because there was a bug with cheat death. Almost nobody had Warglaives and those few select were PvE players that could not play well in pvp, because even i as a noob back then won agains them with humble gear. Really a non issue in the pvp day. I did play pvp 4-8 hours a day without ever pausing in TBC, trust me i saw everything and some things are just a non issue. A legendary sword rogue is the least thing, you should fear in TBC, since they can just stunlock you down from 100% to 10% or even zero, with just basic gladiator gear. if that is balanced i dunno, because multiple if not all hybrids that can have higher burst than a pure dd in all his 3 specs -NOWDAYS- certainly is not what i call a decent, balance, a decent balance is about pure DDs doing what they are supposed to do, what we have now is a broken design, with most, if not all pure DDs now beeing garbage for the trashcan and a class completely broken, because even if the current rogue would deal some burst in any of his specs what he doesn't, there is still the broken design of demon hunters to spot a rogue while in stealth and this ability works even at a 100y range. Tried&tested. A class only working around stealth cannot compete here.
On the other side, i do not remember a whole class beeing unplayable in TBC. Shadow is useless? Just heal. Spec balance wasn't a thing back then, only class usefulness. Remember you could use all 3 talent trees and just play your class.

But warriors were always problematic and you saw them everywhere, they simply cut you in half no matter what, the burst was so ridiculous high, that they even worked in duels against rogues and locks, just not against frost mages.

[Lightbull]

This is a good illustration of what current arenas are the vast majority of the time. There's little difference in 3s.

Good video.

It's a bit hard to enjoy playing with such a braindead meta.

Already debunked this. He's just a salty rogue saying PvP is unbalanced because he's able to train the least mobile caster in the game until he dies, while that same caster is doing no damage because of RDruid HoTs.

No shit that Warlock is going to die. That's just the nature of 2s. Always has been.

If you want to claim 3s is the same, give me some proof of this happening above 2200. Because no DPS in his right mind is going to just train the kill target and ignore the fact that his Warlock is dying.

If only that was how it worked.

If you're trying to defend current gameplay, then you're shit. Fact.

Nice argument you have there. :^)

Despite being an obvious troll at this point, I'll take your bait.
Assassination is considered the most successful rogue spec right now in PvP. Is it because it has mad control or defensives?
No it's because you can tunnel someone into the fucking ground because most classes have A defensive and mediocre mobility which means that they can't stop that.

In fact, you barely ever see Outlaw or Sub rogues anymore despite them having far superior control, mainly because playing a control oriented comp in arenas right now is far inferior to mongocleaves.

That's because Outlaw and Subtlety damage is next to nonexistant right now. I guarantee if Outlaw got buffed, it would take Assassination's place on the throne due to the fact that is has more utility. It doesn't have to have Assassination's level of damage, it just needs to do more than tickle damage.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Let's just ignore the fact that the game is 12 years old and after all these years we expect PvP being more balanced. But it is not.
Oh, and world PvP is dead because of no PvP gear, so everyone can one, two shot you in open world now.

balance is a lie no game has ever had perfect balance no game ever will even if every one played the same class it would still be unbalanced in the way people play the classes the only way to ever have true balance would be to have people who think in the same way playing the exact same thing.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

I hope the will admit pvp templates were and ugly idea sooner or later.
I really do...

PvP templates are the only reason I'm actually enjoying PvP now, cause now I don't have to fill my bags with another set of gear and I can PvP on my alts without putting in 20+ hours of grinding out gear.

[Tyrannica]

That's because Outlaw and Subtlety damage is next to nonexistant right now. I guarantee if Outlaw got buffed, it would take Assassination's place on the throne due to the fact that is has more utility. It doesn't have to have Assassination's level of damage, it just needs to do more than tickle damage.

Are you aware you keep posting about rogues without even have the slightes clue how they are designed in legion?

Assassin is the meta due to the very fact that one of their poisons provides MS, both outlaw and sub lack poisons and that ms effect.

Better not try to balance things you might find out even pve devs or sleeping beauty Holinka do it better.

[Stormspellz]

No one gives any explanation why it's bad.

They just say "lol wow PvP is the worst it's ever been" despite Frost DK and Monk being slightly more overpowered than the other classes right now. And this is early in the expansion. In previous expansions we had to wait until the later patches to find any decent balance. Even in WoD where class balance was very good at the end of the expansion, at the start of the expansion we had Gladiator Warriors dominating everything, WW Monks were unplayable for most of the expansion, among other things.

Week 1 7.1 Frost DK and Destruction Warlock are probably the worst cases of balance in Legion so far, and not only was that quickly hotfixed, but it's also a really small problem compared to what we've seen in the past.

but they have both on official and here, on why they feel pvp is horrible atm

[Tyrannica]

Outlaw has tons of issues in arenas, its the spec you never see there for a reason:





Salty rogue over and out.

- - - Updated - - -

s5 DKs and Shadowmourne Warriors are proly the most OP things in the history of gaming. Theres videos of warriors taking out 4 or 5 people at once.

You never played vanilla pvp, right? i call that well balanced, because you needed to grind a legendary that you only received by the end of wotlk. S5 never had shadowmourne. Non issue - again.

On the other hand, i do not spare my own class, in vanilla it was world of rogue craft with naked rogues and just lvl1 daggers. Kill armies of noobs naked. But again no one cares there weren't a lot of good pvp players around in vanilla when things were out of control.

Stop the non-arguments finally.

Right now in legion we face the worst balance of it all, since its even controlled by pvp templates and there are no excuses left for that snowy company,whenever they make classes unviable.

[Lightbull]

Are you aware you keep posting about rogues without even have the slightes clue how they are designed in legion?

Assassin is the meta due to the very fact that one of their poisons provides MS, both outlaw and sub lack poisons and that ms effect.

Better not try to balance things you might find out even pve devs or sleeping beauty Holinka do it better.

Are you implying that any class that does well has an MS effect? Because that punches a giant hole in your logic here.

EDIT: Just watched the videos, everything in those videos aside from maybe 1 or 2 points could be fixed by buffing the damn templates.

"Oh but even the gladiators are saying how bad they are!" They're talking about the viability of Rogue in general. Gives Blizzard even more of a reason to buff the templates and put Rogue back on the map.

I honestly think 80% of all the QQ about Rogue could be eliminated just by buffing them.

[kary]

Outlaw has tons of issues in arenas, its the spec you never see there for a reason:





Salty rogue over and out.

- - - Updated - - -



You never played vanilla pvp, right? i call that well balanced, because you needed to grind a legendary that you only received by the end of wotlk. S5 never had shadowmourne. Non issue - again.

On the other hand, i do not spare my own class, in vanilla it was world of rogue craft with naked rogues and just lvl1 daggers. Kill armies of noobs naked. But again no one cares there weren't a lot of good pvp players around in vanilla when things were out of control.

Stop the non-arguments finally.

Right now in legion we face the worst balance of it all, since its even controlled by pvp templates and there are no excuses left for that snowy company,whenever they make classes unviable.

Lol did you fail middle school or something?
S5 dks are 1 thing, shadowmourne anything is another thing.

And yes, naked rogues thrived because people were bad and half the time didn't use pvp trinkets. Dks in wotlk could instagib you in full gear and you couldn't do anything about it.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway this thread has been derailed by one salty rogue. Funny.