Duskwalkers: how "bad" can a relic be if there is master assassin on?

[Deleted]

Hi there

I got realy lucky today looted duskwalkers.

This is my rogue including my actual relics :
http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...f/Gixet/simple

Im just wondering if its worth droping a 875 blood relic with gushing wound ( increase rupture damage ) for an , lets say 860 blood relic from helya with MA on it.

There are only a few MA relics.. not many in EN but many in karazhan.
but kara relics are only 855-860 , actualy im wearing 875 across the board with rupture damage or rupture crit. I know they are strong if i wear 2 or better 3.

Tryed to sim it with an 860 MA blood one, about 4k dps more. But if the encounter is not long enough to make a useful advantage out of the 10seconds... hard to say ^^

[TwentyTwelve]

As far as im aware MA relics are worth 30Ilvls over other relics - Assuming u can get 3x MA, they're worth less if you only have 1 or 2...

[Souichirou]

I personally had relics around 870-880 for rupture damage but swapped to MA x3 and with boots IF I get lucky vendetta CD sometimes drops as low as 40 seconds or lower.

[Deleted]

so its not recommended to "ninja go" for MA relics.
Maybe its worth if i already have 2x MA to "ninja" the third

[Souichirou]

so its not recommended to "ninja go" for MA relics.
Maybe its worth if i already have 2x MA to "ninja" the third

Its 3x MA or bust, the damage you get is insane. From my logs I have vendetta around 50% uptime on a 3~ min nyth and ursoc kill.

[BO7CH]

If you have dusk boots you only need 2xMA relics.

[Deleted]

The question is if its better to take one or two 10-20 lower ilvl relicts while using duskwalkers. OR its only good to drop so many ilvl while obtaining 3 of them.

[Deleted]

If you have dusk boots you only need 2xMA relics.

Explain this to me.

Assuming a lenght of 4mins and a Vendetta cooldown of approx. 45 seconds with 3/3 MA and Boots:

1 x Vendetta at ~ 5s.
2 x 50s.
3 x 1m35s.
4 x 2m20s.
5 x 3m05s.
6 x 3m50s. -> So ou possibly can get 6 vendettas during a lenght of 4 minutes. And it is definitely likely if you have good gear, exspecially with good haste for enery reg.

With 2/3 MA and Vendetta with 55s on CD.

1 x ~5.
2 x 1m.
3 x 1m55s.
4 x 2m50s.
5 x 3m45s.

1 x

[MostlyEvilKiwi]

If you have dusk boots you only need 2xMA relics.

Maybe if you play exsanguinate, then your 45 sec ex CD will line up nicely with the ~46 sec vendetta cooldown the boots+2xMA works out at. An extra MA is not neccessarily going to benefit much.

But I play AP, and do much better since I got 3xMA to go with my boots than when I had 2xMA, because I get to vendetta every ~40 sec, and every 3rd vendetta now lines up with vanished ruptures.

[Chemii]

Explain this to me.

Assuming a lenght of 4mins and a Vendetta cooldown of approx. 45 seconds with 3/3 MA and Boots:

1 x Vendetta at ~ 5s.
2 x 50s.
3 x 1m35s.
4 x 2m20s.
5 x 3m05s.
6 x 3m50s. -> So ou possibly can get 6 vendettas during a lenght of 4 minutes. And it is definitely likely if you have good gear, exspecially with good haste for enery reg.

With 2/3 MA and Vendetta with 55s on CD.

1 x ~5.
2 x 1m.
3 x 1m55s.
4 x 2m50s.
5 x 3m45s.

1 x

If you are only managing 45 second cooldown of Vendetta with the boots and three relics you are doing something wrong or have bad gear. The same is achievable with two relics and boots.

As I have laid out many many times before, if Vendetta is available and you do not use it for 5 seconds (wait time) for whatever reason then one of your singular MA relics is worthless.

With Exang its two + boots.

[Deleted]

The difference between rupture damage and Ma is roughly 5 ilvl. To run 3 ma relics are also fine without the boots. If you have 880 rupture damage, you should not go below 875 ma.

[Deleted]

If you are only managing 45 second cooldown of Vendetta with the boots and three relics you are doing something wrong or have bad gear. The same is achievable with two relics and boots.

As I have laid out many many times before, if Vendetta is available and you do not use it for 5 seconds (wait time) for whatever reason then one of your singular MA relics is worthless.

With Exang its two + boots.

I am 871, my gear is not bad, but since i dont use Urscos`s trinket or have a decent haste pool otherwise, 45 secs seems to be pretty much the averge for me. I am aware of the fact that you can bring it down to 30-40 seconds with proper gear.

Btw., what u said made me actually wonder and after a few calculations i can approve that u barely benefit from 3 x MA when you delay it by 5 seconds. But i really never delay it tho so it makes the decision hard. But still, you benefit much more from long duration fights. Surely, farming content with speedkills wont give you the maximum benefit nowadays but tang the upcoming content into consideration. it still makes sense to stick with 3 x MA. Maybe we will even get a redesign of this relic System, cause it sucks big times.

- - - Updated - - -

The difference between rupture damage and Ma is roughly 5 ilvl. To run 3 ma relics are also fine without the boots. If you have 880 rupture damage, you should not go below 875 ma.

Wheres that from?

[lobocito]

With 2X MA relics and boots, you can have 45 second vendetta, every time- 40-42% uptime throughout the fight. A third MA relic gets you to about 40 seconds, sometimes a hair under- assuming you are on boss and have a good opportunity to burn it every time, you can maintain right about 50% vendetta uptime.

At 885 my sims show me that my 890 rupture crit relic is worth more than up to an 875 relic, with boots. I'd also like to point out that 2xMA + Exsang is BEAUTIFUL; the cooldown lines up perfectly EVERY SINGLE EXSANG. I actually LOSE exsang dps when i go to a third MA relic of any type because it takes about 4 minutes to sync them up perfectly again.

[Bombouzzo]

I'd also like to point out that 2xMA + Exsang is BEAUTIFUL; the cooldown lines up perfectly EVERY SINGLE EXSANG.

Is this with or without the boots?

I actually have 2 MA relics, but unfortunately no boots, wondering if it worth changing relics...

[Deleted]

simc shows this result , with duskwalker boots:

got 2x rupture and 1x rupture crit.
changed one 875 rupture to 865 MA ( the one from helya normal , just to test it )
the result was an 4k dps increase.
what i actualy realy got is a 860 shadow MA, i think when im lucky to get the 880 from helya heroic ill try it out and get booth the 880 MA blood and 860 MA shadow in

[lobocito]

Is this with or without the boots?

I actually have 2 MA relics, but unfortunately no boots, wondering if it worth changing relics...

Only with the boots. If you already have 2 and no boots, hunt hard for that third one

[Deleted]

simc f**ed me.. droped my 875 gushing wounds for an 860 with MA... dps is significly lower with the 860 MA because of this simc issue:

simc has buggy relic ilvls , it has simulated my dps with an 850 gushing wounds instead of my REAL 875 one (just copy pasted from simc addon -_- ). the 860 MA was right simulated.

when using the right ilvls the 875 gushing wounds is better then the 860 MA with duskwalkers.

Im realy pissed now ^^

[Souichirou]

simc f**ed me.. droped my 875 gushing wounds for an 860 with MA... dps is significly lower with the 860 MA because of this simc issue:

simc has buggy relic ilvls , it has simulated my dps with an 850 gushing wounds instead of my REAL 875 one (just copy pasted from simc addon -_- ). the 860 MA was right simulated.

when using the right ilvls the 875 gushing wounds is better then the 860 MA with duskwalkers.

Im realy pissed now ^^

Shouldnt be a drop, I had roughly the same setup with rupture relics at 870+ but swapped to lower MA relics and my dps has jumped after the swap.