Vendetta relics and exsang!

[Deleted]

So, i have recently aquired 3x MA relics and planning on using them soon (replacing rupture crit relics) as it seems like it would be a decent dps increase. However, since i do not have the boots yet (only sephuz, /cry) i will bring vendetta to a static 1 min cd. So the big questions is regarding delaying of cds.

I know that kingsbane is not affected by vendetta, so there will be no reason to delay that specific ability. But i do not always play EP/AP, as i find exsang to be better on some fights.
So, as exsang and vendetta doesnt align on cd, is it worth delaying? And with boots, how close to matching will exsang and vendetta be with 3x MA relics?

Really appreciate the help!

[Chemii]

Currently with the boots playing Exang (with 3% haste) you only need two MA relics and one rupture damage relic.

A third will always bring vendetta off 9 or so seconds before exang, which is a waste of a relic slot.

[tvp6987]

Use kingsbane on CD, like you said it's not effected by vendetta. Delay all cds to line up with vendetta (pots, vanish,exang).

[Atylia]

I dont believe MA relics are worth it for Exsanguinate unless you get the Boots + 2 MA relics

[omeomorfismo]

no, simming with boots and 3 MA and changing the algoritm to de-syng the CDs i have 7k dps more

[Jeclipse]

You're giving the whole "lining up the cooldowns" thing more credit than it deserves. Sure it's nice that 2 MA relics and the boots align your exsanguinate with vendetta, but over a long fight, it's going to be more dps if you use MAx3 + boots and use vendetta on CD, never delay it for anything.

[Atylia]

You're giving the whole "lining up the cooldowns" thing more credit than it deserves. Sure it's nice that 2 MA relics and the boots align your exsanguinate with vendetta, but over a long fight, it's going to be more dps if you use MAx3 + boots and use vendetta on CD, never delay it for anything.

This is bullshit.

[Fiftyonred]

This is bullshit.

You can't just claim something is bullshit without presenting your counter argument.
This isn't preschool so join the debate in a constructive manner or sod off.

[omeomorfismo]

This is bullshit.

but its true XD
my sim

3MA desync
468665 dps

3MA sync
461706 dps

2MA desync
466157 dps

2MA sync
466955 dps

if anyone explain me how to do i can upload the html

[Atylia]

You can't just claim something is bullshit without presenting your counter argument.
This isn't preschool so join the debate in a constructive manner or sod off.

Just look at Exsanguinate rogue logs. The vast majority of the damage comes during Exsanguinate, it is such a MASSIVE spike in damage. Even if you do get 1 extra Vendetta by popping it on cooldown, which is very dependant on fight length, do you realle believe its going to make up for the loss in damage from your Exsanguinated Rupture + extra Envenoms you do during Exsanguinate because of very high energy regeneration.

but its true XD
my sim

3MA desync
468665 dps

3MA sync
461706 dps

2MA desync
466157 dps

2MA sync
466955 dps

if anyone explain me how to do i can upload the html

You cant even upload a HTML, why should I trust you to modify the simcraft APL correctly?

Also, do you have boots?

[Fiftyonred]

but its true XD
my sim

3MA desync
468665 dps

3MA sync
461706 dps

2MA desync
466157 dps

2MA sync
466955 dps

if anyone explain me how to do i can upload the html

The difference in dps is so marginal it makes zero difference in a real scenario.

[omeomorfismo]

Just look at Exsanguinate rogue logs. The vast majority of the damage comes during Exsanguinate, it is such a MASSIVE spike in damage. Even if you do get 1 extra Vendetta by popping it on cooldown, which is very dependant on fight length, do you realle believe its going to make up for the loss in damage from your Exsanguinated Rupture + extra Envenoms you do during Exsanguinate because of very high energy regeneration.




You cant even upload a HTML, why should I trust you to modify the simcraft APL correctly?

Also, do you have boots?

lol that pathetic ad hominem argument.
btw yes i have boots
@Fiftyonred
you can call the difference "so marginal"
it doesnt change that your "This is bullshit." is a massive bullshit XD

[lobocito]

I ran my own sims (have boots and 2MA / 890 Rupture Crit relic) and an 875 MA is doing about 5,000 more dps than my 890 rupture crit. I would agree with Atylia though, i think 5,000 of pure perfect simdps isn't worth how much easier in an actual fight it is to properly execute once Vendetta gets de-synced. I know ya'll will just say "wtfnoob just spam it on cd" but IMO getting max-damage, perfect rupture-exsangs, that you can keep EP up for, while pooling for Kingsbane, with Vendetta varying from 5-40 seconds off of the exsang cd, while maintaining 98% garrote and 75% EP, is significantly more difficult than having all 3 CD's lined up.

That said AP pulls way the F ahead of exsang once you get your third MA. If you only have 2 MA's and some sick high ilvl 3rd relic, exsang will have higher max dmg potential but really relies on getting a BOTA or two during exsang, ideally on a nightstalker, to beat AP, which will be consistent but with a slightly lower ceiling.

[Fiftyonred]

lol that pathetic ad hominem argument.
btw yes i have boots
@Fiftyonred
you can call the difference "so marginal"
it doesnt change that your "This is bullshit." is a massive bullshit XD

When and what did I state was bullshit?

[omeomorfismo]

When and what did I state was bullshit?

lol, i confused you and atylia D:

[Deleted]

I do not think it is possible to say exactly what is better when you compare a say 895 Rupture relic and a 870 Vendeta relic. I assume you run your sims on patchwork settings. The truth is that you are never in a "patchwork" situation. Even a boss like Guarm has down times (more on mythic). The one thing that I can tell you is that you will never be able to fire off Vendeta on CD. Using vendetta is a commitment to do dmg on one target for 20 seconds.

My gut feeling is that 2Ma and 1 Rup dmg because you want the cds to be as linked as possible for the EPEX build. In general things that sim within 1-2% of each other have to be tested in game on specific encounters.

[omeomorfismo]

I do not think it is possible to say exactly what is better when you compare a say 895 Rupture relic and a 870 Vendeta relic. I assume you run your sims on patchwork settings. The truth is that you are never in a "patchwork" situation. Even a boss like Guarm has down times (more on mythic). The one thing that I can tell you is that you will never be able to fire off Vendeta on CD. Using vendetta is a commitment to do dmg on one target for 20 seconds.

My gut feeling is that 2Ma and 1 Rup dmg because you want the cds to be as linked as possible for the EPEX build. In general things that sim within 1-2% of each other have to be tested in game on specific encounters.

boss like patchwerk arent the best case scenario for legendary feets.
if you have downtime you can still consume energy with fok/poisoned knife, resulting in a higher uptime of vendetta (relatively to your uptime on boss clearly)

[Chemii]

You're giving the whole "lining up the cooldowns" thing more credit than it deserves. Sure it's nice that 2 MA relics and the boots align your exsanguinate with vendetta, but over a long fight, it's going to be more dps if you use MAx3 + boots and use vendetta on CD, never delay it for anything.

In a simulation environment yes, in a raid environment no.

The difference is pretty clear because the rupture damage is active almost 100% of the time, amplified by Exanguinate. Then the difference becomes absolutely staggering when you have more than one target.

Your MA relic only comes into play when you actually get that extra vendetta off, on a singular target AND it lasts its full duration.

It's the same reason that AP is worse in raids and is being buffed for it's faults, yet sims will say it's ahead.

[omeomorfismo]

Your MA relic only comes into play when you actually get that extra vendetta off, on a singular target.

this is not entirely true. you can have even the same number of vendetta, but if the last isnt entirely ticked then the vendetta with less cd had more uptime, so you still gain dps.
and with an uptime of 45%-50% isnt so difficult to have vendetta up when the boss die

[Deleted]

boss like patchwerk arent the best case scenario for legendary feets.
if you have downtime you can still consume energy with fok/poisoned knife, resulting in a higher uptime of vendetta (relatively to your uptime on boss clearly)

With up time I mean me doing dmg during the 20 seconds Vendetta debuff. Let me give you an example in TOV: You have vendeta come up and you are on Hymdal or Hirja or you have to switch off your target. Or It comes up and Guarm does his charge. Your logic that you can spend more is not a complete one. First you have to get more to spend more to get more reduction. Its not only about the reduction on the cd. At the same time every second that you don't use vendeta you "waste" it.