Pitt Bulls Violent by Genetics or by Upbringing?

[Allybeboba]

So, let's look at some facts around the matter, shall we?

First of all, what is a Pit Bull? It isn't actually a breed (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...00b_story.html)...

But experts say most dogs commonly referred to as a pit bull are either a mix of other breeds or are pure-bred of a breed often misidentified as a pit bull.
So, that kind of throws out the whole selective breeding as the issue.

How about upbringing? Well, we can look at the scary statistics for those that are "identified" as pit bulls. We find that 82% of deaths caused by dogs are due to "pit bulls". OMG! Panic!

But, wait, there were 34 deaths in 2015, 28 of which were identified as being done by Pit Bulls. But, according to the loose definition of pit bulls, there are about 5 million of them in the US today.

That means that 0.00056% of "pit bulls" caused a death last year. How is 0.00056% a problem with the breed or the upbringing of the animals? Obviously, it isn't a problem. Heck, you literally have much, much better odds of dying in a car crash.

This is nothing more than fear-mongering BS. The same fear-mongering BS that was put out about Doberman Pinschers in the 70s, and German Shepherds in the 80s, and Rottweilers in the 90s.
.

Actually, the Bull Terrier is recognized by the AKC. http://www.akc.org/dog-breeds/bull-terrier/

I do agree with your statement. Too bad even cold hard numbers will not change many people's minds on this web site.
Unstoppable force vs the immovable object.

[ImpTaimer]

All this conjecture.

"It's not genetics, all animals have it! It's just behavior!"

Just like all creatures are genetically predisposed for certain cancers and mental illnesses right? And that those predispositions can be inherited through selection?

"It's not the same!"

Completely laughable pseudo-intellectual fallacy.

Be acceptant of your denial rather than projecting your false reality on other people.

Pitbulls are a fighting breed. They are not a generic term for a type of dog. Breeders and Adoption Centers purposefully lump pitbulls together with other bull breeds to confuse buyers. Pitbulls are not nanny dogs and have never been nanny dogs. Just do some simple research instead of cherrypicking non-facts from blogs that don't bother to source their own claims.

I'm relieved even the wikipedia page on pitbulls has rudimentary factline of the breed. Seriously. Just go read that if you don't care about source-checking.

You won't find one instance of "nanny" or "baby" in the article, because even pro-pit foundations have redacted the nanny claim.

[TirielWoW]

I hear about training all the time. But do you really believe that every Pit Bull out there that attacked or killed someone was simply trained to be violent? Or what of the people who had their Pits since they were born and raised them right yet they still attacked a family member one day? I'm not saying that you can't train them by the way. You certainly can. And some Pits are lovable amazing animals. But there is still that capability to kill in them. When over half of the viscious dog attacks are by Pits which only make up 6% of the dog population then there is a problem. I refuse to believe that every one of those attacks was due to owners training them to be violent.

I think they haven't been trained at all, actually. And a large number of them (possibly even a majority) aren't spayed or neutered. Intact male dogs make up the bulk of attack reports.

[Deleted]

Ofc they are violent by genetics. Genetics dictate behavior in all animals, dogs are not an exception.

[Allybeboba]

Pit Bull is a generic term for a class of dog. Its like the term Muscle Cars describes a class of car. The medias lack of recognition of dog breeds also feeds into the bad reputation, listing dog attacks as pitbull when the type isnt exactly known.


American Bull Dog


American Staffordshire Terrier


Staffordshire Bull Terrier

So what you are saying is that the MEDIA has duped the public into believing something that isn't true?

HOW

CAN

THIS

BE

POSSIBLE?

[ComputerNerd]

I would say that there are breeds more susceptible to aggression, but is that purely natural or did we actually enhance that through selective breeding of breeds displaying those traits.
Ultimately we are responsible for the way they turned out.

Not all are aggressive, so there is certainly an influence from the way we bring them up, but I do think the breed now has a problem that simply won't be gotten rid of by being better owners.

We ourselves have a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and she is very loving towards people, perhaps a bit too persistent though.
But towards other dogs the reaction is mixed, and she tends to have a hatred of certain breeds, particularly boxers.
A lot of her behavior has been improved, but that remains, perhaps due to being a rescue dog and proximity to a boxer in a neighboring cage in kennels.
I just think some behavior is hard to get rid of, for more reasons than simply raising them right.

[Youn]

Genetically, a pitbull is designed to be a fighting dog. Upbringing determines whether it is an uncontrolled fighting dog or a controlled fighting dog. But in the end, it's still a fighting dog.

My Basenji's are designed to be wild Congolese bush dogs. This makes them dangerous hunters that were breed by the pygmie tribes of the Congo. They are prone to track down and kill small animals in a same manner as a cat. Is it genetics that makes them hunting dogs. Yes. Are they violent by nurture? No, not really.

[petej0]

So what you are saying is that the MEDIA has duped the public into believing something that isn't true?

HOW

CAN

THIS

BE

POSSIBLY

TRUE?

I dont think it is being done purposely. Your common news reporter doesnt know dogs breeds as much as they think they do. If you show 1,000 people those pictures above and asked them what type of breed it is, nearly 100% would claim it was a pitbull.

[Gib Lover]

The little dogs bite far more often then big dogs.

And smaller sharks bite more often than Great Whites, what's your point.

[Kryos]

He begs for milkbones.
Or to have coconut oil added to his food.
I'm not joking when I say my dog is a spoiled brat.

You are the human, you need to give him more healthy treats.

[Mohangz]

american pit bulls were specifically bred for dog fighting 99% time they love people they just hate other animals and honestly i wouldn't want one around a small child but that goes for other breeds of dogs as well, theres a video on liveleak of a pit killing 8 coyotes at once they are pure fucking savage when they get going

[Gib Lover]

Engineers: Race cars are built to be race cars.

People in thread: But if you care for the race car and bring it up properly it can become a good family car.

Engineers: No, it is still a race car. That is what is was built to be.

People in thread: No, you just treated you race car badly.

Engineers: You caring about it is in no way going to change the design of the car.

People in thread: Emotion and bringing your race car up properly matter more. Go somewhere else with your silly logic, science, and statistics! We will get by with our feelings.

Engineers: Good luck with that.

You are still neglecting to take into account the millions of pitbulls that don't attack people.

Pitbulls in my opinion do seem to make up a disproportionate number of maulings/deaths and I do think there is some merit to the argument that they could be a dangerous breed, but your analogy here isn't applicable.

[Kryos]

Engineers: Race cars are built to be race cars.
People in thread: Emotion and bringing your race car up properly matter more. Go somewhere else with your silly logic, science, and statistics! We will get by with our feelings.
Engineers: Good luck with that.

The only ones here who brought statistics and facts are those who defend the pitbull. All you have is fear and no facts.
Show some solid facts that prove that Pit Bulls are attacking humans more often than other dog breeds.
Pitbulls are breed to fight other dogs, not to attack humans. They are extremely loyal to humans, but I wouldn't let a pit play with another dog without supervision.

- - - Updated - - -

Wish I could insert that too damn high meme here because the amount of anecdotal evidence in this thread is by far too damn high. It sure is amazing how so many people here raised Pits themselves. You'd think the population of Pits would be higher than 6% since practically 1 in 4 people here seem to have raised one. Some people could give ronnyjohnson618 a run for his money.

It's almost as if people with pit bulls are triggered by this topic to add some data and facts.

[Gib Lover]

The only ones here who brought statistics and facts are those who defend the pitbull. All you have is fear and no facts.
Show some solid facts that prove that Pit Bulls are attacking humans more often than other dog breeds.
Pitbulls are breed to fight other dogs, not to attack humans. They are extremely loyal to humans, but I wouldn't let a pit play with another dog without supervision.

He actually did post evidence of that back a few pages. Of the 34 dog-caused fatalities recorded in 2015, 90% were caused by pitbulls. Rottweilers were the second most fatal dog with only like 2 deaths.

Now that isn't data on dog attacks, but fatalities. Apparently they stopped recording dog attacks based on breed a while ago, but in the mid 90's pitbulls were on top of recorded non-fatal attacks by a country mile.

[Kryos]

Pit Bull is a generic term for a class of dog.

For some people it is, but the breed exists. It's the American Pit Bull Terrier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Pit_Bull_Terrier
The Pit Bull Terrier was created by breeding Old English Terriers and Old English Bulldogs together to produce a dog that combined the gameness of the terrier with the strength and athleticism of the bulldog.

Many people like to call all similar looking dogs like American Staffordshire Terrier "Pit Bull", too.

The UKC gives this description of the characteristics of the American Pit Bull Terrier:

The essential characteristics of the American Pit Bull Terrier are strength, confidence, and zest for life. This breed is eager to please and brimming over with enthusiasm. APBTs make excellent family companions and have always been noted for their love of children. Because most APBTs exhibit some level of dog aggression and because of its powerful physique, the APBT requires an owner who will carefully socialize and obedience train the dog. The breed’s natural agility makes it one of the most capable canine climbers so good fencing is a must for this breed. The APBT is not the best choice for a guard dog since they are extremely friendly, even with strangers. Aggressive behavior toward humans is uncharacteristic of the breed and highly undesirable. This breed does very well in performance events because of its high level of intelligence and its willingness to work.

Again, these dogs are breed to FIGHT DOGS, NOT HUMANS. As you see in the UKC descriptions they are so friendly to humans that they make bad guard dogs! So while they show aggression towards other dogs, they are not the human mauling monsters the media made them. Other bad trained dogs breeds are far more responsible for attacks on humans.

The general rule:
Big strong dog breed + bad owner = danger
Small weak dog breed + bad owner = no danger but many harmless bites
Big strong dog breed + good owner = no problems

Big strong dogs are molosser breeds, including pit bulls, rottweilers, presa canarios, cane corsos, mastiffs, dogo argentinos, fila brazilieros, sharpeis, boxers, and their mixes. That's a lot of breeds and a lot of mixes. They all have in common their size and strong body.

There are big dogs that even if they bite will not cause very much harm like a greyhounds or Saluki.

I think we need a dog licence like a driver licence for big dogs. Too many idiots that want a big dog to feel strong and powerful with no clue how to train them walk around. That's the main problem here. The owners and their lack of knowledge and skill.

[Saucexorzski]

And smaller sharks bite more often than Great Whites, what's your point.

That little dogs bite more often...though it was pretty clear and to the point...one sentence...few words...

[Gib Lover]

That little dogs bite more often...though it was pretty clear and to the point...one sentence...few words...

If my grandma had wheels she would have been a bike.

We are talking about maulings and deaths caused by pitbulls, not nips and bites.

[Nyoken]

Everything on this planet has the possibility to be violent. But it's all in how they are brought up....

Take this guy for instance --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNCzSfv4hX8

He has been working with lions, leopards and hyenas for over what... 15 years now? He has 39 lions in there that he takes care of. And I mean like...goes into their enclosures and plays with them.

I mean...can you do this shit with hyenas and LIONS. Well then i'm pretty sure you can raise a kind pit bull...IF you do it right.

[Kathandira]

For some people it is, but the breed exists. It's the American Pit Bull Terrier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Pit_Bull_Terrier
The Pit Bull Terrier was created by breeding Old English Terriers and Old English Bulldogs together to produce a dog that combined the gameness of the terrier with the strength and athleticism of the bulldog.

Many people like to call all similar looking dogs like American Staffordshire Terrier "Pit Bull", too.

The UKC gives this description of the characteristics of the American Pit Bull Terrier:

The essential characteristics of the American Pit Bull Terrier are strength, confidence, and zest for life. This breed is eager to please and brimming over with enthusiasm. APBTs make excellent family companions and have always been noted for their love of children. Because most APBTs exhibit some level of dog aggression and because of its powerful physique, the APBT requires an owner who will carefully socialize and obedience train the dog. The breed’s natural agility makes it one of the most capable canine climbers so good fencing is a must for this breed. The APBT is not the best choice for a guard dog since they are extremely friendly, even with strangers. Aggressive behavior toward humans is uncharacteristic of the breed and highly undesirable. This breed does very well in performance events because of its high level of intelligence and its willingness to work.

Again, these dogs are breed to FIGHT DOGS, NOT HUMANS. As you see in the UKC descriptions they are so friendly to humans that they make bad guard dogs! So while they show aggression towards other dogs, they are not the human mauling monsters the media made them. Other bad trained dogs breeds are far more responsible for attacks on humans.

The general rule:
Big strong dog breed + bad owner = danger
Small weak dog breed + bad owner = no danger but many bites
Big strong dog breed + good owner = no problems

That dog does not look athletic, lol. Strong perhaps, but not athletic.

[Dezerte]

Meh, all dogs are genetically violent just as we humans are. There might be a correlation between pit bulls and higher aggression but there are other possible factors at play that can account for that (i.e. the owner). Do pit bulls see an even distribution among dog owners, compared to other breeds - who is the typical pit bull owner, might be one such query to follow up on before jumping to conclusions.