gestation period?

[Magical Mudcrab]

So basically you ignore every piece of lore where orcs are demonstrated to be as smart as humans and you post this graph, put your fingers in your ears and go "lalala"

Sorry but no, until you can actually pull up something your entire point is flawed. Post an actual source showing orcs being dumber than humans.

To be fair, I think those instances are more incidental than anything else. If you were to compare a common human with a common orc, the Human would likely be more intelligent, hence why Humans were able to progress into having a relatively sophisticated culture and geopolitical system (prior to the downfall of the main Human kingdoms brought about by the Scourge, they were an agricultural society), while Orcs were still comparatively primitive in their culture and abilities (living in disparate hunter-gatherer tribes, each with their own superstitions). However, that doesn't mean that there aren't extraordinary individuals from every race that break away from the common rule.

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They're meaningless to gameplay now. Not when WoW launched.

I think those stats are meaningless right now. Weren't race's stats normalized to be equivalent in Cata to account for cries of imbalance (ie: Tauren having slightly more health than other tanks due to their inherent racial bonuses)?

[Friendlyimmolation]

To be fair, I think those instances are more incidental than anything else. If you were to compare a common human with a common orc, the Human would likely be more intelligent, hence why Humans were able to progress into having a relatively sophisticated culture and geopolitical system (prior to the downfall of the main Human kingdoms brought about by the Scourge, they were an agricultural society), while Orcs were still comparatively primitive in their culture and abilities (living in disparate hunter-gatherer tribes, each with their own superstitions). However, that doesn't mean that there aren't extraordinary individuals from every race that break away from the common rule.

maybe a common orc from Draenor, not from Orgrimmar, the orcs are pretty focused on war, so it stands to reason they can't afford to be dumber than humans. Sure you have the common dumb peon, but you also have the stupid peasant.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Night Elven intellect is 20, as is Human intellect? All of the Alliance races save for Worgen (for some reason, despite Worgen being original Humans who've lost none of their skills or memories) are 1-2 points from one another.

They were also a race of Humans that were afflicted with a curse that makes them more bestial.

Sad story for the Horde, except for Blood Elves and Goblins who somehow eclipse both Humans and Night Elves handily.

Goblins are as intelligent as Gnomes.
Blood Elves are a society built on the study of magic, Night Elves are a society built on the study of Druidism. The former would - assumedly - be a more intellectually rigorous pursuit, if only due to the amount of education is required to use magic in Warcraft.

I think I'd take these ratings with more than a few grains of salt.

From that chart, it seems all races have 100~ or so baseline points that can be added to their stats. Differences in total number likely come down to the actual cost of the stats (ie: races with higher Stamina seem to have fewer stats overall).

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maybe a common orc from Draenor, not from Orgrimmar, the orcs are pretty focused on war, so it stands to reason they can't afford to be dumber than humans. Sure you have the common dumb peon, but you also have the stupid peasant.

Many, if not most, of the Orcs living in Orgrimmar are the same that came to Azeroth in the Second War. I would say that they aren't any more or less intelligent than they were on Draenor, especially as Orgimmar is the work of Gazlowe. That said, the new generation of Orcs, who have been brought up in a significantly more stable environment, would arguably be smarter.

That said, average intelligence is obviously not as important in Warcraft as we give it credit for. Look at the Forsaken who have a base 18. Even though they have a lower-than-average intelligence, they are still the most sophisticated race in regards to biological warfare and the use of alchemy, more-so than even gnomes and goblins.

[Aucald]

They were also a race of Humans that were afflicted with a curse that makes them more bestial.

Bestial doesn't imply stupidity, especially when they're not in actively in Worgen form. Most of the Gilnean Worgen in-game are essentially unchanged in personality and intelligence, they've only had their aggression somewhat enhanced.

TGoblins are as intelligent as Gnomes.
Blood Elves are a society built on the study of magic, Night Elves are a society built on the study of Druidism. The former would - assumedly - be a more intellectually rigorous pursuit, if only due to the amount of education is required to use magic in Warcraft.

According to this chart Blood Elves are also smarter than both Goblins and Gnomes and smarter than the Draenei who are exceedingly long-lived, have a working knowledge of transdimensional vessels, and mastery over the Arcane.

From that chart, it seems all races have 100~ or so baseline points that can be added to their stats. Differences in total number likely come down to the actual cost of the stats (ie: races with higher Stamina seem to have fewer stats overall).

It's pretty much a set of mechanical distinctions from a statistical standpoint - I don't think it codifies any individual's potential limits within a given race or faction. Not all Orcs are automatically less intelligent than Humans, not all Trolls are automatically less intelligent than, well, pretty much every other race.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Bestial doesn't imply stupidity, especially when they're not in actively in Worgen form. Most of the Gilnean Worgen in-game are essentially unchanged in personality and intelligence, they've only had their aggression somewhat enhanced.

You're right, but we don't know the full effects of how the curse actually affected those inflicted with it. What we do know is that many who were afflicted lost their sense of self, essentially becoming rabid animals. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think that it may have affected the individuals in ways other than just their transformations.

According to this chart Blood Elves are also smarter than both Goblins and Gnomes and smarter than the Draenei who are exceedingly long-lived, have a working knowledge of transdimensional vessels, and mastery over the Arcane.

I can can fix and build computers - it's simple - but that doesn't make mean I could make a processor. That is, the Draenei have a working knowledge of the vessels built by the Naaru, but that doesn't mean that they know how to make one. It's not to say that it's unimpressive that they can fix the vessels, however they - until Legion - had a Naaru to tell them how it worked, and teach them how to make repairs.

It's pretty much a set of mechanical distinctions from a statistical standpoint - I don't think it codifies any individual's potential limits within a given race or faction. Not all Orcs are automatically less intelligent than Humans, not all Trolls are automatically less intelligent than, well, pretty much every other race.

Hence why I stated the Forsaken example.
Obviously the base stats don't gave as much weight as I, and others, have given them. While I think it's fair to say that the base stats can be used as a metric to judge the average member of that race, so a Human peasant would be more intelligent than an Orc peon and a Human guardsmen would be more intelligent than an Orc grunt, the fact is that virtually everything and everyone we interact with in expansions since Vanilla have been extraordinary examples of their race. To us, as players, it really doesn't matter what the base is, we're so far removed from it at this point that it doesn't matter in-game.

However, it was brought up as a point regarding gestation length. So it's arguably relevant to the discussion, but not relevant to our experience with members of each race.

[Aurabolt]

THis is getting off track so I'll just say this: If no official Lore info exists, make your own for the story.

[Zandalariprelate]

Well I would say it wont different much with the humans gestation at best case 1 or 2 more months, since even in the case of the canine family there is not much difference of time for a wolf, a rottweiler, mastiff or even a chihuahua in the gestation period and those animals have a big gasp in life span

[Aurabolt]

If we're talking pregnancy durations, this would be my guess:

Night Elf: 6-7 months
Dwarf: 5-6 months
Gnome: 4-5 months
Draenei: 10-12 months
Pandaren: 10 months
Orc: 10-12 months
Troll: 6-7 months
Tauren: 10 months
Goblin: 4-5 months
Blood Elf: 6-7 months

...Humans and Worgen are 9 months (40 weeks). I left the off the list for that reason. Undead can't reproduce. Half-Elves would presumably be the same as humans or Elves, depending on the race of the mother. I took 1-2 months off the Elf and Troll races since they have a bit less body mass though male Night Elves and Female Trolls are taller than their female and male counterparts.

I took 4-5 months off Dwarves, Gnomes and Goblins since they're much smaller in size. Pandaren are 10 months because of their size and it's also implied a litter is not uncommon. Tauren are also 10 months because of their bodymass. Like Draenei, their horns don't really grow until after birth. Orcs and Draenei are the longest for separate reasons. Apparently, it's normal for Orcs fight while pregnant. Presumably the baby develops slower so the mother isn't hindered too much.

With Draenei, they have the most advanced technology of all the playable races. I think the original gestation was around 8 months but when they left Argus, they developed a means of slowing down fetal growth, extending it as a result. One of the reasons that comes to mind is a pregant Draenei being put in stasis. The mother is given a strong drug that puts the unborn baby in suspended animation while she is in stasis. Otherwise, what could happen is the baby grows too big for the mother's body to support it or her body eventually tries to deliver the baby on its own while she's in stasis. On Azeroth/Draenor, I think it's somewhere between 10-12 months. Now that they have a permanent home, they are free to procreate as much as they want.

[Techno-Druid]

Such a fun topic this is <3

It's worth noting there are in-game Draenei children but no in-game Night Elf children (but there are in-game Blood Elf Children). Of course, there are also in-game Orc and Human children as well.

More on topic:

Velen is 35,000 years old but there is a Draenei who is apparently older than he is on the Exodar. They probably didn't breed much until they came to Outland/Draenor and then Azeoth. I think I might have read somewhere to the effect The Light stopped Velen from physically aging ages ago. The Draenei who states he's much older than Velen looks physically younger, too. It may also be possible the Draenei naturally have long lifespans but under certain conditions, they can easily live for several dozen millenium or something.

Malfurion, Tyrande, Maiev, Jarod, Shandris and Illidan are six of the oldest known Night Elves. We know they were all alive during the War of the Ancients. They lost their immortality with the destriction of the World Tree. Nozdormu refused to bless Teldrassil after Nordrassil was sacrifced to kill Archi, denying the Night Elves immortality. I think it was in Wolfheart the first Night Elf to die of old age happened or something like that. Until then, that was the one thing that separated the Night Elves from the other mortal races of Azeroth. They now had a finite, predetermined lifespan.

We definitely know both Draenei and Night Elves can and did get pregnant. Shandris was a kid during WotA but is clearly an adult now. In Pre-Cata WoW, even though an adult model is used there was NELF Child in Astranaar. Now that the Night Elves know they will die from old age, they have more of a reason to breed more.

I think it was from Rise of the Horde where it states that draenei are less fertile and each child is treated as a gift, with parents being held in positions almost as high as mages or paladins.

As for night elves, you see a lot of night elf NPCs that are related to each other, which implies that it's not uncommon for nelfs to have more than one child. I'm going to go off on a limb here and say that night elves are probably pretty fertile, but likely abstain from having children until they find a suitable partner (nelf courtship takes place over a long ass period of time) for cultural reasons. Same probably applies to blood/high elves, although they're a lot less conservative.

If I had to categorize the races from most to least fertile, it would probably look like this:

Tauren probably have slower gestation periods and likely only give birth to one child on average with the occasional set of twins (like with Sunwalker Dezco's wife). Goblins breed like rabbits.

Aside from those though, I think most other races breed and produce offspring at a similar rate to one another (the exceptions being Forsaken and worgen as the former are just undead and the worgen curse doesn't seem to be a hereditary trait).

[Aurabolt]

I think it was from Rise of the Horde where it states that draenei are less fertile and each child is treated as a gift, with parents being held in positions almost as high as mages or paladins.

Maybe back then but since then as well as on AU Draenor, Draenei birthrates are definately much higher. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the Draenei gave incentives for breeding just to increase their numbers.

[Aquamonkey]

I think it was from Rise of the Horde where it states that draenei are less fertile and each child is treated as a gift, with parents being held in positions almost as high as mages or paladins.

The closest thing to this is:

“We do not have many,” Restalaan said. “Our people are very long-lived, and because of that we do not often have children.”
--Rise of the Horde

Doesn't say anything about infertility or the status of parents. Reads more as a cultural choice to limit overpopulation due to their long lives.

The orcs came across quite a few children during their war with the Draenei.

[Aucald]

Long-lived species are generally not very fecund, low birth-rates keeping their populations in line over time. Draenei would definitely be subject to this, being very long-lived as a natural aspect of their species. Night Elves might have needed external controls to keep their numbers few when they were immortal by magic, but as that's no longer the case now they'll probably slowly return to their previous natural birth-rates. The other races would probably have standard birth-rates for a humanoid species, probably not too far from our own depending on their cultures and matters of scarcity.

[Deleted]

If we're talking pregnancy durations, this would be my guess:

Night Elf: 6-7 months
Dwarf: 5-6 months
Gnome: 4-5 months
Draenei: 10-12 months
Pandaren: 10 months
Orc: 10-12 months
Troll: 6-7 months
Tauren: 10 months
Goblin: 4-5 months
Blood Elf: 6-7 months

Me thinks this is actually a pretty good list to go by, so cheers!

With Draenei, they have the most advanced technology of all the playable races. I think the original gestation was around 8 months but when they left Argus, they developed a means of slowing down fetal growth, extending it as a result. One of the reasons that comes to mind is a pregant Draenei being put in stasis. The mother is given a strong drug that puts the unborn baby in suspended animation while she is in stasis. Otherwise, what could happen is the baby grows too big for the mother's body to support it or her body eventually tries to deliver the baby on its own while she's in stasis. On Azeroth/Draenor, I think it's somewhere between 10-12 months. Now that they have a permanent home, they are free to procreate as much as they want.

What's your thought on a estrous vs menstrual cycle? I was thinking of the females going into heat maybe twice a year (being "space goats" and everything).

[Super Kami Dende]

You are concerned with Gestation Rates, but what if it is down to Ovulation rates.

Human Females Ovulate once a month or so. What if Draenei or Elves only had a Fertile Egg once every few Years.

[chazus]

From a purely biological standpoint, humanoids have rougly a logarithmic gestation period of ~2.3. Larger/heavier mothers are longer gestation periods.

Until you start getting to much larger creatures, the gestation period is largely the same. A 4000lb elephant only has a gestation period of ~2 years. Anything below the ~800lbs mark is going to be pretty human-similar. 9-10 months at the most.

That said, there are obviously outliers. There are some mammals of normal size that have exceptionally fast, and slow, gestation periods. So when it comes to fantasy... it's.. whatever, yanno? Naturally speaking, humanoids do 9 months. Of course, orcs also have magically infused aging systems too, so.. Theres that as well.

[Aurabolt]

I wonder if the Orcs had a spartan approach to kids just like the Ancient Spartans did: Females were trained from a young age to prepare their bodies for breeding once they were of age. In Ancien Sparta, only two people got a hero's burial: Men who died in battle and women who died in childbirth. It was considered the greatest honor to die in the service of honor.

Certainly seems that way though there are no examples of the latter that I know of aside from technically Drakka.

You are concerned with Gestation Rates, but what if it is down to Ovulation rates.

Human Females Ovulate once a month or so. What if Draenei or Elves only had a Fertile Egg once every few Years.

Eh...I'm sure it's only a few times a year or every few years for Night Elves before they lost their immortality. Probably much longer for Draenei before they settled on Draenor and Azeroth.

What's your thought on a estrous vs menstrual cycle? I was thinking of the females going into heat maybe twice a year (being "space goats" and everything).

I think female Draenei and Night Elves only got pregnant every few centuries because of their longevity. Pretty sure they had sex but not for procreation. Night Elves started breeding more after the WotA for a variety of reasons. They took it more serious after they lose their immortality.

The Draenei probably didn't have alot of kids on Argus but there were no cultural reasons. Those who wanted kids just had them. That changed a bit when they left Argus. They just held off having kids until they eventually settled on Draenor. When the Draenei came to Azeroth, they knew they could actually focus a bit more on safely increasing their number. Those on AU Draenor more so I think.

[Jakisuaki]

There's no biological benefit to slower maturation so I don't think gestation or childhood would be extended in longer lived races.

That's not true, the slower gestation and maturation, the larger your body is. The larger your body is, the less natural predators you have.

[Super Kami Dende]

That's not true, the slower gestation and maturation, the larger your body is. The larger your body is, the less natural predators you have.

Not entirely true, there are far bigger animals on Earth that have a shorter gestation period to Humans.

[Aurabolt]

Not entirely true, there are far bigger animals on Earth that have a shorter gestation period to Humans.

Oh? Name a few.

[Scorntorrent]

I know the Hippopotamus has a shorter gestation period than humans.