AMD Zen processors...Are you interested?

[Bigvizz]

To OP: No I have no interest in Zen (I have a i7-4790k), but most people with a ivy-bridge processor or newer likely will feel like it's not worth the switch. Although the prices I've seen will make first time builders or those with very old rigs think twice about going intel. It should be fun to see what AMD has got.

[Life-Binder]

Im not moving from 3770K @ 4500 to Zen, no point for gaming .. depending on if Zen can hit 4500 OC, mine might actually edge it out or at least equal OCed Zen

though to be fair I skip Skylake and Kaby too


hell I might even skip 4-core Cannonlake (10nm) and 6c Coffeelake (14nm) and wait all the way up to 10nm 6c12t Intel

[chazus]

http://www.extremetech.com/computing...ad-performance

I honestly have no idea what you're trying to get across.

You were saying that they were going with 'high speed and power' when speed wasnt even a factor, and power was not powerful.

[enragedgorilla]

as a consumer, I hope AMD brings somethign to the table that keeps a "2 party system" alive.
Otherwise , INTEL will be the only game in town and they will be able to charge whatever they want for it with no alternatives.

[Chickat]

If their quad core can preform 90% as good as the 6600k with decent overclocking ability for 80% the price or less it will have decent market share. The 8 core for under 300 might do well. In a game like battlefield that uses more cores well, the 8 core should crush intels quad cores. We will see.

[Gimlinn]

Have had AMD in the past and will in all likelihood never go back to them. at this point it feels like they are years behind Intel even with these new processors coming out they'll still be behind.

[Baelic]

In my opinion, AMD's first Zen release has to be as good performance wise, at the same or cheaper price point and not draw as much power. If they cannot accomplish all those goals, and it has to be all those goal you can't skimp because then by default the Intel option is superior, then Zen is going to fail.

Nah, technically AMD can still win out if Zen is a little weaker than Skylake but has a better Cost/Performance ratio.

As an example, the FX-8350 here at work is just as good if not better cost/performance wise than the i7-6700k, at least when it comes to what we use them for at the office.

[Flarelaine]

I cannot put off buying a new rig much longer (WoW has been a nuisance since 7.0), but I'm waiting to see Zen. It will be an upgrade any which way and I'm quite sure it will be competitive for the cost-conscious consumer like yours truly.

[Life-Binder]

I cannot put off buying a new rig much longer (WoW has been a nuisance since 7.0), but I'm waiting to see Zen. It will be an upgrade any which way and I'm quite sure it will be competitive for the cost-conscious consumer like yours truly.

WoW is going to be one of the worst games for Zen (compared to Intel)

WoW needs as high as possible GHz and as high as possible single-thread IPC - thats what Skylake/Kaby Lake is all about


Zens undoubtely lower (than Skylake/Kaby) frequency and more cores will do nothing for WoW

[Lathais]

WoW is going to be one of the worst games for Zen (compared to Intel)

WoW needs as high as possible GHz and as high as possible single-thread IPC - thats what Skylake/Kaby Lake is all about


Zens undoubtely lower (than Skylake/Kaby) frequency and more cores will do nothing for WoW

If you consider that Zens IPC could at least come close to Haswell and there are still people playing WoW just fine on 2500k's, WoW may not be much of a problem for ZEN. If it is significantly cheaper than Sky/Kaby-lake then it will be a consideration for many. I mean sure, if you have a 2500k, you still probably won't want to upgrade to it, same as you wouldn't want to upgrade to Skylake currently.

[Flarelaine]

WoW is going to be one of the worst games for Zen (compared to Intel)

WoW needs as high as possible GHz and as high as possible single-thread IPC - thats what Skylake/Kaby Lake is all about

Zens undoubtely lower (than Skylake/Kaby) frequency and more cores will do nothing for WoW

I'll wait until stuff is in stores, though. I still expect comparable performance at lower price.

[Life-Binder]

If you consider that Zens IPC could at least come close to Haswell and there are still people playing WoW just fine on 2500k's, WoW may not be much of a problem for ZEN. If it is significantly cheaper than Sky/Kaby-lake then it will be a consideration for many.

they play fine, but WoW is still very CPU-bound and Skylakes/Kabys > Sandy

its also not just about IPC, but also frequency .. can Zen hit the same max OC as Sandy or Skylake/Kaby ? I very much doubt that, but we will see


as for price - Skylake i7s can already be had sub-$300 (maybe even sub-$250 somewhere ?) - that will be in the price range of the 6c/12t Zen I believe, a bit above the 4c/8t Zen

the regular version of 8c/16t Zen and the 7700K will also cost about the same most likely

not to mention i3 and i5 Kabys will be a thing too


theres no real chance Zen is going to be cheaper than Kaby, and thats not its job anyway .. its job is to be significantly cheaper than Intels high-priced hexacores and octacores

[Deleted]

From Intel president Dr. Venkata Murthy Renduchintala:
"Our faith in 10 nm raising the bar for enthusiast PCs is why we see the threat presented by AMD’s Zen as being fairly manageable, with only short term disruption in 2017."

We don't know if Zen will be great or if it'll suck again, but at least we know Intel considers it a threat and even went as far as to say that it would cause a disruption in 2017. That in itself is already a pretty good sign. At the very least we'll get better prices on 6C/12T i7s.

You left out the most interesting part of that passage IMHO:
"But there will be a significant focus also on higher performance microprocessors for desktops and servers, both from higher instructions per clock but also in other key metrics. Our faith in 10 nm raising the bar ..."

Which could mean that even if AMD manages to catch up with Intel's single core performance they soon would be a step ahead again, which of course is great news for gamers.

So I'm not too sure whether Intel really sees Zen as a threat or if this is just their PC way of saying "AMD, LOL".

Still hoping AMD gives them a run for their money, but I don't think they will come too close in the enthusiast/gaming sector. They might offer a good alternative if you are looking for a lot of cores though.

[Evildeffy]

they play fine, but WoW is still very CPU-bound and Skylakes/Kabys > Sandy

its also not just about IPC, but also frequency .. can Zen hit the same max OC as Sandy or Skylake/Kaby ? I very much doubt that, but we will see

Considering that ZEN will already feature CPUs with a turbo up to 4.2 as a base model on the 8C/16T piece I would very much say yes, it will be rather close.
And if the IPC, as shown in that veiled blender test, is indeed up-to-par to BW-E than it is also up to par on Sky Lake however .. that point is indeed unknown as of yet but I'd rather keep an open mind considering all the info out there regarding this rather than being a pessimist don't you think?

as for price - Skylake i7s can already be had sub-$300 (maybe even sub-$250 somewhere ?) - that will be in the price range of the 6c/12t Zen I believe, a bit above the 4c/8t Zen

the regular version of 8c/16t Zen and the 7700K will also cost about the same most likely

not to mention i3 and i5 Kabys will be a thing too

theres no real chance Zen is going to be cheaper than Kaby, and thats not its job anyway .. its job is to be significantly cheaper than Intels high-priced hexacores and octacores

Someone hasn't been reading up on the pricing strategies that have been leaked for ZEN's SR3/SR5/SR7 models.
Having said that it is indeed a leak but a rather "believable" one due to it's structure.

- - - Updated - - -

You left out the most interesting part of that passage IMHO:
"But there will be a significant focus also on higher performance microprocessors for desktops and servers, both from higher instructions per clock but also in other key metrics. Our faith in 10 nm raising the bar ..."

Which could mean that even if AMD manages to catch up with Intel's single core performance they soon would be a step ahead again, which of course is great news for gamers.

So I'm not too sure whether Intel really sees Zen as a threat or if this is just their PC way of saying "AMD, LOL".

Still hoping AMD gives them a run for their money, but I don't think they will come too close in the enthusiast/gaming sector. They might offer a good alternative if you are looking for a lot of cores though.

Actually as 10nm won't be here before 2018 and even that is a question when AMD will have over a year to refine their 14nm ZEN to higher performance states and 10/7nm.
As underpowered/flawed as the original Bulldozer CPUs were they did get proper IPC increases in their line-up each year, more so than Intel.
It is why the Athlon 880K is actually a very decent quad core.

Just because AMD is bringing out a CPU doesn't mean they will stop evolving it, they made that mistake once.. I very much doubt they will do so again.

[Life-Binder]

Someone hasn't been reading up on the pricing strategies that have been leaked for ZEN's SR3/SR5/SR7 models.

I have which is why I said what I said

the leak put the regular SR7 (8c/16t) @ ~$350, which is going to be 7700K price (and the premium SR7 @ $500)


if you really think Zen line-up is going to be cheaper than Kaby line-up, then Im not giong to dissuade you .. just know that AMD isnt a non-profit organisation

[Sturmbringe]

It is why the Athlon 880K is actually a very decent quad core.

No man. It is not "decent" in any way, shape or form.

It costs $100 and for that you get Sandy Bridge i5-2300 (non-k) perfomance.



For the same price, you can get an i5-2500k and overclock it to 4.8 GHz, obtaining performance orders of magnitude greater.

An overclocked 880K scores 6143 CPU marks on average whereas an overclocked i5-2500k scores 8042 CPU marks. It's not even close.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/overclocked_cpus.html

-------------->Remember that people posting here are enthusiasts so AMD fanboyism won't fly around here.

[Vash The Stampede]

WoW is going to be one of the worst games for Zen (compared to Intel)

You know cause? We don't know exactly how Zen performs but so far there's a good indication that it's very close to Broadwell-E in terms of IPC. I'm of course not going by what AMD says, but if it's at least around Haswell like performance then I'm fine with this.

WoW needs as high as possible GHz and as high as possible single-thread IPC - thats what Skylake/Kaby Lake is all about

• Kaby Lake is far away from now.
• Skylake was a disappointment because on average it's a 3% increase over Haswell in games. Skylake shows more gains in productivity than in games.
• Only Intel K CPUs can overclock, while every Zen CPU is overclockable.

the leak put the regular SR7 (8c/16t) @ ~$350, which is going to be 7700K price (and the premium SR7 @ $500)

With half the cores. The SR3 is probably the nearest match to the 7700K and likely cost $150, cause it's a 4 core 8 thread CPU. The nearest match to the SR7 $350 is Core i7-6900K. The $1k CPU from Intel.

if you really think Zen line-up is going to be cheaper than Kaby line-up, then Im not giong to dissuade you .. just know that AMD isnt a non-profit organisation

Because when Intel is left with no competition it's not uncommon for them to charge $1k for CPUs. Oh hey look here, and here. I wonder how that happened? Believe me, Intel has done this crap in the past too. It's not that AMD is so cheap that they're non-profit, but that Intel wallet rape is so massive that you'd think AMD was a cheap whore. Think about it, only K CPUs can overclock while i5's have no Hyperthreading? All for the low price of extremely expensive? That doesn't strike you as wrong?

- - - Updated - - -

No man. It is not "decent" in any way, shape or form.

It costs $100 and for that you get Sandy Bridge i5-2300 (non-k) perfomance.



For the same price, you can get an i5-2500k and overclock it to 4.8 GHz, obtaining performance orders of magnitude greater.

An overclocked 880K scores 6143 CPU marks on average whereas an overclocked i5-2500k scores 8042 CPU marks. It's not even close.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/overclocked_cpus.html

-------------->Remember that people posting here are enthusiasts so AMD fanboyism won't fly around here.

The issue here is that obtaining a 2500K and motherboard isn't cheap and you're buying second hand parts vs buying new. Plus the AMD CPU comes with a really nice cooler.

Here's the 2500k. $95
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Core-i...wAAOSwB09YPkaG

Here's the motherboard. $100
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-P8Z68-V...gAAOSwt7pXMLBe

VS

880k $97
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...D=3938566&SID=

FM2 motherboard. $65
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...D=3938566&SID=

[Life-Binder]

Kaby Lake is far away from now.

Kaby is going to come out at the same time (or a bit before) as Zen

Skylake was a disappointment

6700K was the fastest gaming CPU upon its release and continues to be so to this day

With half the cores

yes and those extra 4 cores & 8 threads arent going to matter in games (at least - less so than higher IPC and higher clocks) .. we were talking about best gaming performances @ $350

if you just need cores cores cores than yeah Zen is your man

The SR3 is probably the nearest match to the 7700K and likely cost $150

the SR3 is going to get smashed by 7700K in all gaming tests

The nearest match to the SR7 $350 is Core i7-6900K. The $1k CPU from Intel.

which is the advantage of Zen, which I already said

[Kazgrel]

Yes and no. I'd love to see a return to form for AMD on the CPU front (to where they offer a legitimate competitor to Intel at the middle and even top end of the market), if not for the nostalgia of the Athlon 64 days when they were beating Intel like a drum. That said, I won't be purchasing one; just got a unused server from a friend which housed an i7-4790k, which I plucked out and put in a proper desktop case/mobo (he had it in some little cube form factor case). I'm good to go for PC gaming for a few years (or so I hope ).

[Evildeffy]

Kaby is going to come out at the same time (or a bit before) as Zen

ZEN will be released before Kaby Lake.

6700K was the fastest gaming CPU upon its release and continues to be so to this day

Stock correct, no dispute but it was still a disappointment due to stagnation of performance in the CPU market.
That's what he was referring to.

yes and those extra 4 cores & 8 threads arent going to matter in games (at least - less so than higher IPC and higher clocks) .. we were talking about best gaming performances @ $350

if you just need cores cores cores than yeah Zen is your man

You're missing the point being made here, the SR3 which will be equivalent to the i7-6700K could be considered equal to each other whilst being 150 - 200 USD cheaper as they are both SMT Quad-Core CPUs with an EXPECTED IPC that is close if not equal to it.
Let me rephrase it for you... you're getting the i7-6700K for the price of a i3-6100 but have the official ability to overclock, literally DOUBLE the power for the same price.
Do you understand now why ZEN could be (if indeed the performance leaks/info are correct) a major disruption to the CPU market?

the SR3 is going to get smashed by 7700K in all gaming tests

Conjecture, you're saying we are playing ZEN up but you yourself are playing ZEN down.
If the info is correct the SR3 will be an exact match to a 7700K since Kaby Lake has NO IPC improvements over Sky Lake, only frequency.
Considering the 8C/16T CPU will have a boost of 4,2GHz I am inclined to think that lower core CPUs will be capable of higher base and turbo clocks since the TDP (though of course not the only factor) of the 8-core is 95W and has edged out a 140W TDP CPU at the same speeds and core amount.

which is the advantage of Zen, which I already said

There is more than just that, like newer encryption standard support and the aforementioned models and prices.
Though granted that the SR3/5 models will be out later does not change anything of the sort for it's benefits.