Trump to name Andrew Puzder (critic to raise minimum wages) as head of labor

[Wolfheart9]

I feel this video is very fitting to this conversation.

[Zan15]

No, using McDonalds as a measure, according to their own site. On average 17% of their total costs of operation is labor.

So making the far fetched assumption that absolutely every job they have, including managers, was minimum wage. Then doubling the minimum wage would only result in a 17% increase in costs turning a $3.57 Big Mac now would now be a $4.17 Big Mac with the workers making $15 an hour instead. And the more their workers make now than minimum wage by comparison, the smaller that jump will be.

not to mention its a 3-5 year increase, not 15 dollars overnight.


Walmart study showed they would have to increase their cost by .5-1.5 cents per item to pay for the increase in wages.
it would result in billions saved for the taxpayers and they would at least still have a product they brought and the end of the day vs just giving their tax dollars to Walmart workers cause walmart wont pay them a decent wage

[God Save The King]

So many people don't understand this concept. A Big Mac is Approximately $5. If they begin paying $10 an hour workers $15, Big Macs become $7.50. While the richer people may cut back a little, the poorer people will cut back a lot or stop eating there.

McDonalds then reduces the workforce, so instead of 10 people making $10 an hour, maybe you have 7 people making $15.

Yes 7 people got a $5 raise, but the products went up by 50%... so they are in no better financial position than they were at $10, and 3 people lost their jobs to boot.

The answer has been and always will be.. create more jobs. And you do that by rewarding companies with tax breaks to reinvest into jobs, which increase the number of people who are working, who pay taxes, to make up for the lost lax revenue by giving the companies a break. The difference is... more people working.

Trump says he is going to increase jobs also by spending money we are just giving away to foreign companies and spend it instead at home upgrading and increasing infrastructure like roads, bridges, schools, etc.

Trump does have some basically easy answers to some complex problems. And it sure can't be any worse than what we had for the past 8 years.... and Clinton would have been absolutely NO change... more debt less growth.

Labor does not make up even 25% of a product's cost, let alone the 100% your logic claims.

If labor makes up 20% of a product's cost (this is a bit higher than the real number), then a 100% wage increase will raise a product's sale value by 20%.

You also have to realize that there are plenty of employees who make above minimum wage, so raising the min. wage will affect less than 20% of a product's value.


Your logic only works in a vacuum where 100% of a product's cost is labor, and 100% of the workforce make minimum wage.

In the united states, about 17% of a product's cost is labor (things like cars are lower around 13%, vs. restaurant food is more like 21%), and 3.9% of the workforce make at most minimum wage


- - - Updated - - -

Why haven't robots replaced all the workers in countries like Australia then?

Because employee cost is still lower than automation cost. Which was literally the entire point of my post.

[Enitzu]

Already been debunked multiple times as the rate of wage increase is not a 1 to 1 ratio or anything close to it to the costs of business or goods. Along with the fact that the economy is based on consumption which is driven by consumer demand which is actually driven by the middle class much more than the rich and even the poor drive consumption more than they do. For instance, McDonalds on average has labor account for about 17% of its costs. You would literally have to increase their wages to over $30 an hour to justify doubling the prices of their food due to it.

The easiest way to strangle an economy is to strangle the wages of the working class and the best way to drive an economy is to give money to them for them to spend and drive up consumption and the economy as a whole.

Sorry, but your words are best entirely on debunked rhetoric with no basis of what actually happens in reality.

So your argument to the entire thing is that because their wage cost is only 17% that they can afford to effectively double it without having to meet any price increase. That's some logic there. As if the only cost to a business is wages right? They don't have to hold insurance for each of their employees? They don't have production costs? Just because the wage cost is 17% of their annual budget means jack all. Adding another 17% of that does not in any way say that they would be fine without a price increase. Liberal logic at it's best.

- - - Updated - - -

History and economics say you are wrong. This would only be true is wages were at least half of the cost of a product.


Fact is, at no point in history when raising min wage has the cost of products rose much.

Fact is, never in history has the min wage ever been doubled either. Min wage has usually only increased by at most $1 per hour. Moving min wage to $15 an hour is 7 times that.

[Maudib]

/Less growth...lol


Obama Presides Over Record Setting 73rd Month of Job Growth

Since we're still in the last quarter of this year, we don't yet know its GDP growth rate, but the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta's tracker predicts it will come in at 2.9 percent (last quarter's growth rate was a robust 3.2 percent)

n 2008, real middle-class incomes were in the process of falling 3.6 percent, the worst year on record since the Census Bureau began tracking median household income in 1967. in 2015, real middle-class incomes had their best year on record, up 5.2 percent.


Etc Etc Etc

Oh yes... and women are making 77% the wages of men. Complete total fallacy. Unemployment levels LOOKS good because it doesn't count the people who have STOPPED looking for work due to it being more lucrative to "retire" and live off those that choose to work. Job growth LOOKS good because companies cut back on fulltime employees because obamacare made medical insurance benefits crazy. Hire part timers and drop fulltimers does NOT create jobs it redistributes work hours to more people.

More socialist bullshit.

- - - Updated - - -

So your argument to the entire thing is that because their wage cost is only 17% that they can afford to effectively double it without having to meet any price increase. That's some logic there.

This...

People LOVE to argue it isn't that big of a deal when a COMPANY takes a big increase. Let's say work force is 17% of costs... they are forced to increase that by 50%. Now it's 25.5% of their costs. No biggie right?

YET... When gas goes from $2 a gallon to $3 a gallon (50% increase) people bitch a fit and want to riot. And yet gasoline is probably less than 17% of someone's monthly operating costs...

It's no big deal for a company to eat that... but the individual? Oh fuck THAT!

[Enitzu]

1. And that "go up" is strictly less than the wage increase. Unless you think that labour is >100% of the costs.

2. Because wages above the minimum wage would not go up in response to the increased minimum, like has happened with every increase before?

3. Where are they finding surplus people to lay off?

4. Automation will happen regardless of wage. Even China is automating and their wages are vastly lower than anything you could live off of in North America. Even if the minimum wage was abolished and people here would work for literal cents per hour, automation would not be stopped.

5. You appear to have a severely distorted view of history if you think any such thing happened at any meaningful rate for centuries.

1. The cost of food is not the only thing that would "go up" every single thing we spent money on would go up. Meaning little to no difference overall.

2. Not sure what major city you live in where everyone around makes over $15 an hr but where I'm from, the avg pay is more around $10-12 an hour. Meaning that probably 60% of the workforce would be going up. I would be screwed as I make what breaks down to a little more than 15/hr. You can't judge the entire world based on your corner because most of the country does not make near $15/hr

3. Surplus people? I never said anything about surplus of people. To save costs companies will cut people and shift their work onto others. Happens all the time.

4. Comparing China to the US is not an accurate depiction of things that are happening. China has lower wages yes, they also have lower costs yet billions more people in a smaller area.

5. Right. So people have always sat around complaining until the government gave them free stuff then correct? No they got off their asses and went earn it. It's only the past 20 years or so that this entitlement has become a thing.

[satimy]

But Hilary appointing some open borders cretin is going to be better for labor? Want to see a rise in blue collar wages, stop importing cheap blue collar labor

[supermage]

Seriously ... If you think for a second that raising min wage to $15 an hr is good for anyone in this country then you obviously have no economic background or for that matter common sense.

If wage costs to a company go up they in turn have to make that up somewhere. Where's that going to come from? Yep you guessed it, the public. Product costs go up, cost of living goes up, etc. Pretty soon you would realize that in the end you hurt yourself. Because not only did you not gain anything but you lose even more because of higher taxes being taken. Not to mention that this is all considering that you still have a job at all once they begin to lay off people and/or automate things to save on costs.

There is no short cut. You want more money from your job then go to college and show that you deserve it or work your butt off and move up the corporate ladder. Just like the whole world has done for hundreds of years. Stop thinking there's an easy fix

Finally!!!! Someone who gets it. Too bad people in Arizona were not smart enough to realize this. They voted in a state mandated minimum wage increase. Now I am just waiting to hear all the crying when everything goes up in price and they start demanding another minimum wage increase. lol

[Wolfheart9]

Finally!!!! Someone who gets it. Too bad people in Arizona were not smart enough to realize this. They voted in a state mandated minimum wage increase. Now I am just waiting to hear all the crying when everything goes up in price and they start demanding another minimum wage increase. lol

You'll be waiting for a very long time. If minimum wage doubles, even if the cost of everything else also doubles (Which it won't), I am either matching via value of the dollar, or gaining.

If I made 1,160 (7.25 an hour, 40 hours a week 4 weeks) a month, and I had to spend 900 a month to get by, I have 260 left
If I made 2,400 (15 an hour, 40 hours a week, 4 weeks) a month, and I had to spend 1800 a month to get by, I have 600 left

And that's with prices of all things doubling, which will never happen.

[Draco-Onis]

Finally!!!! Someone who gets it. Too bad people in Arizona were not smart enough to realize this. They voted in a state mandated minimum wage increase. Now I am just waiting to hear all the crying when everything goes up in price and they start demanding another minimum wage increase. lol

You are going to have to wait a very long time, we've raised the minimum wage several times over the years and it varies by state since labor is not 100% factor in calculating the cost of goods putting a 1:1 correlation is a flawed premise. If your theory was correct then past and present data would show it.

[Wolfheart9]

The fact that labor is only a fraction of the cost of business means increasing the cost of labor will only increase the cost of business by a proportional amount.

Another economic factor to consider is the multiplier effect. By increasing the disposable income of Americans you'll increase consumption at businesses. Increased demand means more workers will need to be hired to service that demand.

Inflation is not exclusively bad--it is also an indicator of a healthy economy. It means your economy is growing.

It also means more people will be able to afford non-aided insurance, which means less strain on the medicare/medicaid system, less people on food stamps, less spending via aid because people can afford their own things. Increasing the wages of workers actually helps many of the problems both the left and right agree on, but because it means the poor man may not be so badly off, we can't have that.

Is $15 for everyone the answer? I don't think so. It's too much for everyone. Is $10 with adjustments to cost of living the answer? Probably.

[Templar 331]

I should be surprised that Trump is picking CEOs for his staff, but I'm not. I knew he'd do favors for his rich friends once he was in office, though I didn't think he'd get them jobs.....

[Masark]

1. The cost of food is not the only thing that would "go up" every single thing we spent money on would go up. Meaning little to no difference overall.

2. Not sure what major city you live in where everyone around makes over $15 an hr but where I'm from, the avg pay is more around $10-12 an hour. Meaning that probably 60% of the workforce would be going up. I would be screwed as I make what breaks down to a little more than 15/hr. You can't judge the entire world based on your corner because most of the country does not make near $15/hr

3. Surplus people? I never said anything about surplus of people. To save costs companies will cut people and shift their work onto others. Happens all the time.

4. Comparing China to the US is not an accurate depiction of things that are happening. China has lower wages yes, they also have lower costs yet billions more people in a smaller area.

5. Right. So people have always sat around complaining until the government gave them free stuff then correct? No they got off their asses and went earn it. It's only the past 20 years or so that this entitlement has become a thing.

1. Food going up 15% and clothing, tc. going up 15% still means the total of everything has gone up by 15%, as each of those increases' amount is proportionate to their previous scale.

2. At present, the minimum wage where I am is $10.72. And how do you figure you would be screwed? You are worth more than the minimum right now, so why wouldn't you be worth more than the new minimum?

3. If you are able to shift the work on to the other people without consequences (reduced quality, etc.), that means you had surplus people.

4. It is totally possible to compare them. Even at those low wages, it is still financially beneficial to the company to automate away those jobs. Meaning that there is no possible way, short of outright banning automation (which would be stupid), to prevent companies from automating away much higher paid jobs here

5. No, they went out striking, got beaten and shot by corporate goons and purchased police, then started shooting back, then governments came in and declared peace and clobbered the power of the corporations. Do I presume correctly you'd like to have shooting battles rather than peaceful demonstrations?

- - - Updated - - -

Now I am just waiting to hear all the crying when everything goes up in price and they start demanding another minimum wage increase. lol

Yes. That "everything goes up in price" happens regardless of whether the minimum wage is increased or not. It's called "inflation".

It's why many places index their minimum wage.

[Halicia]

Something trump promised to fight.

Next time vote for someone who isnt a populist.

Technically, a populist is someone who fights everything Trump represents...

But I don't think the issue is what idealogy Trump is defined as.

The issue is that too many people believed his promises.

Even the Colbert Report's "Truthiness" was never as absurd as most of the claims Trump made... and the Republican party wouldn't let Colbert run for office.

[Wolfheart9]

Technically, a populist is someone who fights everything Trump represents...

But I don't think the issue is what idealogy Trump is defined as.

The issue is that too many people believed his promises.

Even the Colbert Report's "Truthiness" was never as absurd as most of the claims Trump made... and the Republican party wouldn't let Colbert run for office.

They'll just blame all of this on the democratic part of the gov-... Oh wait...

[supermage]

You'll be waiting for a very long time. If minimum wage doubles, even if the cost of everything else also doubles (Which it won't), I am either matching via value of the dollar, or gaining.

If I made 1,160 (7.25 an hour, 40 hours a week 4 weeks) a month, and I had to spend 900 a month to get by, I have 260 left
If I made 2,400 (15 an hour, 40 hours a week, 4 weeks) a month, and I had to spend 1800 a month to get by, I have 600 left

And that's with prices of all things doubling, which will never happen.

I wouldn't get used to that 600 that is left. rent alone is suppose to go up by 7% next year. Also, expect your welfare check to be eliminated since the state thinks you make enough now. So no more food stamps. So now your grocery bill is higher.

[drakensoul]

You'll be waiting for a very long time. If minimum wage doubles, even if the cost of everything else also doubles (Which it won't), I am either matching via value of the dollar, or gaining.

If I made 1,160 (7.25 an hour, 40 hours a week 4 weeks) a month, and I had to spend 900 a month to get by, I have 260 left
If I made 2,400 (15 an hour, 40 hours a week, 4 weeks) a month, and I had to spend 1800 a month to get by, I have 600 left

And that's with prices of all things doubling, which will never happen.

Except since, by your example, the cost of everything has doubled, the $600 that you have left only has half the purchasing power. So you in effect have $300 left.

[Orange Joe]

Fact is, never in history has the min wage ever been doubled either. Min wage has usually only increased by at most $1 per hour. Moving min wage to $15 an hour is 7 times that.

Fact is, no one wants it doubled right now either. But if we don't fight for it now we won't get it later

[Matchles]

I think the only plus to this hire will be the scantly clad women on the worker's rights posters posted in the break room at everyone's job.

[Wolfheart9]

I wouldn't get used to that 600 that is left. rent alone is suppose to go up by 7% next year. Also, expect your welfare check to be eliminated since the state thinks you make enough now. So no more food stamps. So now your grocery bill is higher.

My numbers were not including any form of aid, and was including rent. Which means cost of food, and cost of rent, both doubled, thus 900 to 1800, so it is entirely accurate.

Except since, by your example, the cost of everything has doubled, the $600 that you have left only has half the purchasing power. So you in effect have $300 left.

Correct, which means that even if every single thing doubled in price, which is absolutely stupid to think would happen, I would be just as well off. Meaning, when realistically they will increase less than double, I will be better off.