Is this a joke blizzard ? Boomies so called "buff"

[Cyous]

so keep waiting.

that always works out in the end when they are done with the balance tuning and then you give feedback.
Always works out well when there are just a few weeks left.

Battered community/moonkin player base just seems to easily ready to give in.

/sadface

THere's a huge difference between constructive feedback and whining about buffs.

Players came out in a decent way on the PTR forums, expressing why the enjoyed the Dreamweaving playstyle. Blizzard ended up changing the nerf to preserve the playstyle.

And most of those posts were not "fuck blizztard, thery dont know what they're doing." The were simply strong opinions with "Hey Blizzard, I liked the playstyle because of X, Y, and Z. Please keep this playstyle."

Bitching is useless. Constructive feedback gets you places (because we're not mages and crying doesn't work).

[Tyze]

Gets a buff.. Whines..

[GT4]

I said it is not cross class tuning, blizzard never actually called it that. But hey, if making stuff up makes you happy have fun. Just don't fucking try to put your lies in the mouth of others.

Yeah, class tuning is not cross class tuning. They actually tuned shadows so they're competitive with holy and discipline now. Do you even realize how ridiculous your arguments are?

Obviously it is cross class tuning when they're explicitly stating they like how balance does on live with legendaries (compared to other classes) so they nerf the legendary and buff balance overall. They're trying to bring it back to where it is on live because they know it's balanced compared to other classes on live. There'd be no point whatsoever in applying global damage buffs to underperforming DPS specs (even ones which are the only DPS spec for their class) if it wasn't for cross class tuning.

I'm seriously wondering if people like you actually are that dense not to understand these implications or if you're intentionally ignoring them so you don't have to concede your initial claim.

[Polarthief]

Constructive feedback gets you places.

I half-agree with this. Echoing Stars is a joke of a gold trait, AoE ramp-up is still terrible and the only way to make it better is to drop Incarn (fat chance). Not a single Balance talent was baked in (SL/Inc/NB) and overall we got no mechanical changes, despite the massive amounts of feedback posted in the General/PTR forums. I also recall someone saying there might be a dev in the Druid discord?

With the mechanical changes phase of the PTR phasing out and they're moving on to numbers, it's looking pretty grim for many of our QoL issues. ST damage-wise, I doubt we'll be suffering come patch, but the other issues aren't being addressed.

Also, speaking of Dreamweaving, they should have had the foresight to not even attempt making it a 2s buff that scales negatively with Haste. Any Dev that thought that was a good idea is insane in my book. Oh and need I remind anyone about the laughably bad Balance shoulders when we've been practically begging for spreadable/AoE Moonfire? We also have a garbage gold trait (Echoing Stars) or talent (Soul of the Forest) we could tack it on to...

Gets a buff.. Whines..

A 4% damage buff doesn't address Moonkin QoL issues.

[Cyous]

Also, speaking of Dreamweaving, they should have had the foresight to not even attempt making it a 2s buff that scales negatively with Haste. Any Dev that thought that was a good idea is insane in my book. Oh and need I remind anyone about the laughably bad Balance shoulders when we've been practically begging for spreadable/AoE Moonfire? We also have a garbage gold trait (Echoing Stars) or talent (Soul of the Forest) we could tack it on to...

They didn't want players using it to weave spells, period. Their change very clearly made it impossible to weave spells. (THis isn't up for debate, this is literally their reason.) Players disliked Dreamweaving. Players like Dreamweaving. Given the lack of complexity, it was a fun playstyle for many players. They decided to revert the change and nerfed it to 7, down from 10 (the original value was 7). They wanted to tone it down. They agreed that the playstyle was a good thing to have on a rather simple spec. However, their concern for Dreamweaving also includes "it is actually fun, or just about more DPS?"

Constructive posts about why it was fun absolutely made a difference.

[Polarthief]

They didn't want players using it to weave spells, period. Their change very clearly made it impossible to weave spells. (THis isn't up for debate, this is literally their reason.) Players disliked Dreamweaving. Players like Dreamweaving. Given the lack of complexity, it was a fun playstyle for many players. They decided to revert the change and nerfed it to 7, down from 10 (the original value was 7). They wanted to tone it down. They agreed that the playstyle was a good thing to have on a rather simple spec. However, their concern for Dreamweaving also includes "it is actually fun, or just about more DPS?"

Constructive posts about why it was fun absolutely made a difference.

The problem is it's both, and had they gone with the 2s nerf route, ED would be another trash legendary like the mass amounts of them out there. They also said they wanted legendaries to change your gameplay, and for Balance, ED is definitely the only one, unless someone were to count throwing a powerful instant Regrowth out every 20 or so casts (barely changes gameplay), or using Starfall once in every 5 Starsurges (ever-so-slightly changes gameplay).

Regardless about Dreamweaving (which was the half I agreed on), they haven't touched any other mechanics/talents for us, and there's been a plethora of constructive feedback and suggestions on that (thus being the half I disagreed on). Now that we're in the tuning phase though, it seems like it's too late, so it's hard to be anything but pessimistic about 7.1.5 right now. I really don't want to wait til Q2/Q3 2017 to be effective, come 7.2, or, even worse, 7.2.5.

ST DPS is the only thing I'm not all that concerned about, but that shouldn't be the be-all, end-all way to "balance" classes, especially when some have stupidly good ST and incidental AoE that takes no effort while we have to greatly sacrifice one for the other.

[Zan15]

THere's a huge difference between constructive feedback and whining about buffs.

Players came out in a decent way on the PTR forums, expressing why the enjoyed the Dreamweaving playstyle. Blizzard ended up changing the nerf to preserve the playstyle.

And most of those posts were not "fuck blizztard, thery dont know what they're doing." The were simply strong opinions with "Hey Blizzard, I liked the playstyle because of X, Y, and Z. Please keep this playstyle."

Bitching is useless. Constructive feedback gets you places (because we're not mages and crying doesn't work).

i disagree

you can only give so much constructive feedback
but you can bitch till your fingers fall off supporting the need for changes.

mages do this great they provide the feedback needed then rally around the basic so called "bitching" to show support and how upset they are.

squeaky wheel gets them to pay attention in general, then it gets them higher on the priority list for a review of the actual constructive feedback given.

it might not be right, and it might be childish but it serves a purpose and seems to work for quite a few classes

[Cyous]

Blizzard will disagree with suggestions -- they do all the time. (Excluding the obviously-terrible suggestions.) Voice your opinion, that's good. But whining won't work. Scope of work is another huge factor. Do you really want them revamping the entire spec 3 weeks before the next raid? Probably not. They take good suggestions all the time.

Dreamweaving is probably going to be a talent in 8.0. And that's becaujse a decent amount of players expressed interest in the playstyle itself. "Blizz, pls fix" isn't as helpful as "Blizzard, this was fun. Don't do this."

[huth]

squeaky wheel gets them to pay attention in general

No, it doesn't. People constantly complain about pretty much everything, and most of the time, they achieve absolutely nothing by it. That something that a lot of people complained about got changed doesn't mean that it got changed because they complained about it.

[Slippykins]

To be fair, Damage-wise we will be fine, but it's mechanically, for example, AoE ramp-up that I'm really concerned about.

Curious if they'll do more to Echoing stars than a meager 50% damage buff. Also SOTF and SD will still never be taken over Inc/NB, and Starlord continues to be dominant. We really need those talents baked in.

Stellar Drift is already taken on Heroic and Mythic Helya.

[huth]

Stellar Drift is already taken on Heroic and Mythic Helya.

And FoN beats Starlord when you aren't using SS much, plus having tons of utility in M+.

It also recently got a 30%+ buff on the PTR, so it might actually be ahead already.

[Zan15]

No, it doesn't. People constantly complain about pretty much everything, and most of the time, they achieve absolutely nothing by it. That something that a lot of people complained about got changed doesn't mean that it got changed because they complained about it.

a mage post with 400 pages which 90% are bitching and whining always ending up on the front page will get more attention both on wow forums and on wow related fan sites.

vs a constructive post of 10 pages, where no one is talking about the mass outcry for X.



its not right, but it happens.

[Drahkmar]

It's amazing how quickly people start whining about something that isn't even close to being the end product. Sure, if it rolled out onto live servers like this it would be a big slap in the face after being told we will get buffer. But when it's on the PTR? Come on

[Xarathan]

Im just happy they nerfed those 2 legendaries

[Deleted]

Im just happy they nerfed those 2 legendaries

Yeah.. nerving the only legendaries which made our spec even remotely competitive.. good thinking. The 4% increase doesn't come close to equalize that. And before you retaliate.. I dont trust their cross-class tuning.

[Deleted]

Yeah.. nerving the only legendaries which made our spec even remotely competitive.. good thinking. The 4% increase doesn't come close to equalize that. And before you retaliate.. I dont trust their cross-class tuning.

Man... Have you read anything more of this topic then the last post?

The class tuning HAVEN'T EVEN STARTED YET. Balance shouldn't be competitive after they nerfed two best legendaries giving only small buff after to MINIMISE the loss. The real DMG checking and buffing of certain spells without changing their mechanics will start next ptr patch.

Only thing I'm afraid after reading Lore's post is that there won't be any ST to Cleave to AoE dmg shifting anymore. They are probably only going to change this 'new index' - eg. Balance buffed by 12%.
But again, we won't be able to give complete feedback about our position on meters untill 7.1.5 will be live...

[MV Kaa]

Im just happy they nerfed those 2 legendaries

It is people like you that make us bad lol. Wanna nerf the 2 legendarys because you dont have them, yet what about when you do get them? ever think about that? Dont be mad that other boomkins beat you with them. be mad that others beat boomkins even with them.

[Xarathan]

It is people like you that make us bad lol. Wanna nerf the 2 legendarys because you dont have them, yet what about when you do get them? ever think about that? Dont be mad that other boomkins beat you with them. be mad that others beat boomkins even with them.

and its muppets like you who get mad when they get nerfed, because you lack skill to beat others without getting some retardedly strong legendary.

[MV Kaa]

and its muppets like you who get mad when they get nerfed, because you lack skill to beat others without getting some retardedly strong legendary.

Not sure how RNG means i have no skill?

[Hellshout]

eg. Balance buffed by 12%.

This sounds promising, the only downside I can think of(and it depends how this index affects the spells), is that if a spell for example is too powerful and one is at the bottom of the food chain, they won't be able to buff the shitty one by much without bumping the powerful one to the Moon.
But yeah, I believe buffing by X% is much simpler and easier to deal with than x+y*SP*modifier*procs, where they have to tweak X, Y and see how it actually affects the spell in all cases.