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  1. #781
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Then don't have one.
    and I wont

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilist74 View Post
    The hypocrisy of it is that these people don't give a crap about the baby. They just want to control people. In this case women.
    well I cant and wont speak for others. my concern is with the child

  2. #782
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Your quote is missing most of the words.



    Translation : People claiming as such are distributing falsehoods and we should counter them.

    I believe "the minister" she is referring to is Martin Luther King Jr.
    Let's add in a bit more of that quote


    Miss Rose sent me a copy of your letter of December 5th and I note that you doubt it worthwhile to employ a full time Negro physician. It seems to me from my experience where I have been in North Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee and Texas, that while the colored Negroes have great respect for white doctors they can get closer to their own members and more or less lay their cards on the table which means their ignorance, superstitions and doubts. They do not do this with the white people and if we can train the Negro doctor at the Clinic he can go among them with enthusiasm and with knowledge, which, I believe, will have far-reaching results among the colored people. His work in my opinion should be entirely with the Negro profession and the nurses, hospital, social workers, as well as the County's white doctors. His success will depend upon his personality and his training by us

    The ministers work is also important and also he should be trained, perhaps by the Federation as to our ideals and the goal that we hope to reach. We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members”


    Kind of up to interpretation if you ask me, and I'm not quite sure she is referring to Martin Luther King since she mentions multiple "colored ministers". I'd have to argue here that it appears she wants to get a "negro" involved here because she thinks it would better advance her agenda, but not necessarily for the right reasons. Especially when you consider she has given speeches with the KKK and has other quotes such as "Colored people are like human weeds and are to be exterminated."

  3. #783
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    Kind of up to interpretation if you ask me, and I'm not quite sure she is referring to Martin Luther King since she mentions multiple "colored ministers". I'd have to argue here that it appears she wants to get a "negro" involved here because she thinks it would better advance her agenda, but not necessarily for the right reasons. Especially when you consider she has given speeches with the KKK and has other quotes such as "Colored people are like human weeds and are to be exterminated."
    Which is a classic example of doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. Yes, a lot of the early birth control advocates were eugenecists, but that doesn't detract from the merit of the movement as a whole.

  4. #784
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    Especially when you consider she has given speeches with the KKK and has other quotes such as "Colored people are like human weeds and are to be exterminated."
    1. The speech was to a women's auxiliary and was on the subject of birth control, not anything to do with the KKK's ideologies.

    2. Said quote is false.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
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  5. #785
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    1. The speech was to a women's auxiliary and was on the subject of birth control, not anything to do with the KKK's ideologies.

    2. Said quote is false.
    1. Do you have a source for this? Is there even a transcript of said speech? I'm curious, a lady that believed in eugenics, and that helping "fight poverty" through encouraging the prevention of births, in particular with her "project negro" may have a lot more beliefs in common with the KKK than you may think.

    2. I stand corrected, there's not really a shortage of stuff that she says that can be easily construed as racist, such as, "Today eugenics is suggested by the most diverse minds as the most adequate and thorough avenue to the solution of racial, political and social problems". Abortions and sterilization is a good way to solve racial issues? Surely you would disagree here.

  6. #786
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    1. Do you have a source for this? Is there even a transcript of said speech? I'm curious, a lady that believed in eugenics, and that helping "fight poverty" through encouraging the prevention of births, in particular with her "project negro" may have a lot more beliefs in common with the KKK than you may think.

    2. I stand corrected, there's not really a shortage of stuff that she says that can be easily construed as racist, such as, "Today eugenics is suggested by the most diverse minds as the most adequate and thorough avenue to the solution of racial, political and social problems". Abortions and sterilization is a good way to solve racial issues? Surely you would disagree here.
    Dude, if you want to go with "This organization is bad because the person who built it had bad opinions" then I have bad news for you.

    About America.

  7. #787
    Quote Originally Posted by GothamCity View Post
    50% Pro Choice vs 44% Pro Life



    Full List of all Gallup Polls On Abortion Matters

    You can see it varies a bit, but if you average the last 20 years of polls you get around 49-45
    I was quoting an old statistic, and I think one that was generalized across all citizens. Regardless, I stand by my opinion that it's not a matter of women's rights, and any attempt to argue it as such is simply a distraction from the real issue. At what point should the fetus be considered a life, and in what situations is it alright to kill said life if it is a life?
    Granted, I'm pro-choice. Morally, I would never support an abortion, but I think to try to debate semantics or philosophy is a silly exchange that leads nowhere, and there is very little proof one way or another about the fact itself. I would rather lean towards freedom than control, thus my decision.
    My point here, though, is not to pretend this is an issue it's not. To cherry-pick these half brain-dead republicans who think women should stay at home all day as a source of how 'republicans hate women' is silly. The issue is Pro-life generally thinks it is the killing of a child, and pro-choice generally doesn't.
    Also to add on to this ever increasing post, only 29% believe it should be legal in all circumstances, and only 13% in most. 19% believe it should never be legal (which frankly astounds me) and 36% believe it should only be legal in a select few situations. Perhaps a big aspect of the issue is the unwillingness of people to call themselves pro-life, which would be an interesting think to look into.
    Last edited by Thrive; 2016-12-09 at 04:02 AM.

  8. #788
    Quote Originally Posted by GasaiYuno951 View Post
    i dont like abortions as the child who is losing their life didn't make that choice
    There is no such thing as an unborn child. One has to be born to be a child.

    Also, since there's no cognition during the early phases of pregnancy, as far as I remember, the fetus has no capacity to make a choice one way or another.

    Quote Originally Posted by GasaiYuno951 View Post
    while the criminal who did make said choice should be put to death when warranted
    Except for all those times when people are wrongly convicted and either killed before their sentence can be overturned thankfully have their convictions overturned on appeals. But I guess those innocents are an acceptable loss, or something.

  9. #789
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    There is no such thing as an unborn child. One has to be born to be a child.

    Also, since there's no cognition during the early phases of pregnancy, as far as I remember, the fetus has no capacity to make a choice one way or another.



    Except for all those times when people are wrongly convicted and either killed before their sentence can be overturned thankfully have their convictions overturned on appeals. But I guess those innocents are an acceptable loss, or something.
    i feel bad for you and your rose colored glasses :/

  10. #790
    Quote Originally Posted by GasaiYuno951 View Post
    well I cant and wont speak for others. my concern is with the child
    So long as the child/fetus requires a person's body to remain alive, it's up to that person on whether it lives or dies. If you have a family member needing a transplant from you or said person dies, you are free to refuse as well. It's all tragic, but the cost of allowing people the freedom to choose what happens to their own body.

    If we have the means to keep a fetus alive outside the womb, I'm all for saving them if the mother wants to abort. Until then, we are stuck with our anatomical limitations.
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  11. #791
    If You dont want unwanted "fetus" in your body, dont spread Your legs, simple as that.

    The only cases that abortion could be legal is rape or the serious threat to the womans life.

    I am an atheist and for me abortion is loosing this unique combination of genetics that could spawn another great person on this world. I think for God it doesn't matter if this person goes to heaven before coming out from vagina or later.

  12. #792
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrive View Post
    'republicans hate women'
    I admit their policies cause mass harm to more than just women, but as we're clearly seeing right here, right now their legislative agenda is clearly anti-women, among everything else.

    I'm glad you admitted your mistake with the fake statistics but you can't just sweep that shit under the rug. Republicans have some serious issues in their party, clearly, when in order to steal elections they resort to building a coalition of bigots and morons via the Southern Strategy and disfranchising US citizens. Not to mention this or the fact that their presidential candidate is on tape in his 50s bragging about sexually assaulting young girls and women. That's not Joe Sixpack Ammosexual out on his front lawn waving around a confederate flag talking about "second amendment solutions," that's Donald fucking Trump, the guy Republicans propped up as the face of their fucking party.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calamorallo View Post
    It comes down to a discussion of the meaning of personhood
    A woman is a person. A fetus is a loose clump of cells.

    Hope that clears some things up for you, buddy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nehezbegar View Post
    If You dont want unwanted "fetus" in your body, dont spread Your legs, simple as that.
    Newsflash: people have sex. No amount of protection works 100% of the time. Abortion is a perfectly safe procedure, there is no medical reason it should be outlawed, only the willful ignorance of religion and Republican sop causes shit like this bill.

    It is adorable though, when internet tough guys feel like got got one up on women by slut-shaming them on a gaming forum in some tiny corner of the internet. I hope you have a daughter some day.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov

  13. #793
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nehezbegar View Post
    I am an atheist and for me abortion is loosing this unique combination of genetics that could spawn another great person on this world.
    Or a tyrant. Or a serial killer. Or most likely, just some do-nothing schlub like me who wastes oxygen, water, and food for several decades before dying uneventfully.

    If your position is based upon an argument of "what if...?" then you must account for alternate possibilities. Your logic neither supports nor refutes any particular stance on abortion.

  14. #794
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaeth View Post
    Or a tyrant. Or a serial killer. Or most likely, just some do-nothing schlub like me who wastes oxygen, water, and food for several decades before dying uneventfully.

    If your position is based upon an argument of "what if...?" then you must account for alternate possibilities. Your logic neither supports nor refutes any particular stance on abortion.
    To be a tyrant or a serial killer You can't be an ordinary person so.

  15. #795
    Quote Originally Posted by Nehezbegar View Post
    If You dont want unwanted "fetus" in your body, dont spread Your legs, simple as that.

    The only cases that abortion could be legal is rape or the serious threat to the womans life.

    I am an atheist and for me abortion is loosing this unique combination of genetics that could spawn another great person on this world. I think for God it doesn't matter if this person goes to heaven before coming out from vagina or later.
    Would person like Hitler go to heaven?

    It should matter for god to get everyone, instead of just some portion of the people. How do you get everyone? Before some become evil
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  16. #796
    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    Would person like Hitler go to heaven?

    It should matter for god to get everyone, instead of just some portion of the people. How do you get everyone? Before some become evil
    If there is sth like God, he knows everything and know if the "fetus" will become bad or good, so maybe i wrote that wrong. For God it doesnt matter if person goes to hell or haven before coming out from vagina or later.

  17. #797
    Quote Originally Posted by Nehezbegar View Post
    I dont discuss religion because i dont believe in any form of god.
    Nor is it allowed, but you did mention it. I felt like pointing a flaw in it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  18. #798
    Quote Originally Posted by Nehezbegar View Post
    If You dont want unwanted "fetus" in your body, dont spread Your legs, simple as that.

    The only cases that abortion could be legal is rape or the serious threat to the womans life.


    I am an atheist and for me abortion is loosing this unique combination of genetics that could spawn another great person on this world. I think for God it doesn't matter if this person goes to heaven before coming out from vagina or later.
    so simple.. but the left doesn't know what simple is.

  19. #799
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    Not gonna solve the abortion debate in an mmo-c thread.

    What's more concerning for me is this increasingly common pattern of these "end-around" bills that essentially negate Supreme Court decisions which should overrule them. Supreme Court says abortion is legal? Well we'll just put 10,000 regulations on abortion clinics until it's completely impractical to run one, or pass a heartbeat bill like this where it's so early that many women won't even know they are pregnant before the threshold is up. Republicans did similar things at the state level to Obamacare. It would be like if Democrats started passing bills saying that although we can't ban all guns, we'll make extreme regulations on purchasing anything containing gunpowder or put insane taxes on anything containing gunpowder to where it effectively does the same thing. It's a slippery slope that the states have been going down to regulate/defund/tax laws they don't like into overruling them (which they aren't supposed to be able to do), and tbh Republicans have been doing a far better job at it. But when both sides start doing this more and more it's really going to negate most federal powers. The Supreme Courts, the President, or someone needs to bring that back under control before it throws the balance of government power and the checks and balances out of whack more than it already is.

  20. #800
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherRae View Post
    Well, they should. They're supposed to. You can't call yourself "pro-life" if you don't also care what happens to that child once it's born.

    And I still, to this day, do not understand the reticence on the part of Republicans and so-called "conservatives" towards providing contraception freely to anyone who needs it. This would slash the number of abortions by a ridiculous amount, as well as prevent more children being added to Welfare rolls.
    It's because they want to keep people poor and dependent on the government. They give lip-service to "small government", but they want just as big of a government as liberals; they just want the government to keep people down with oppressive personal regulation instead of lift people up.

    The powerful want to keep power and will do almost anything to keep it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    You're missing the obvious solution. Just make sure to stock up on pregnancy tests and use them each time you go to the bathroom. Take some responsibilty!

    DUH
    This is funny, but for those idiots who think this is an actual solution, remember that this would take about as much forethought as contraception, and the lack of proper education is what got that woman in this situation in the first place. This as a part of abortion-care would require the same amount of education as contraception.

    (I understand you're joking, but there's a lot of stupid people on the internet that would take you seriously.)

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