Baltic states and Russia : is there a real risk ?

[Deleted]

Do you get your news from comic books? Serious question.

No, I live in a neighbouring country. First hand experience, so screw you.

It's easy for a dork like you to be a smartass from a safe distance.

[caervek]

Oh come on, look at Putin and the Putinistas here.

That was kinda my point, people say "omg putin wants another USSR" but he didn't take eastern Ukraine when it was offered to him. People say that assisting Syria (an ally) is expansionism, but how many allies have the west assisted over the years? Was Desert Storm a US led expansion into Iraq? I think not.

[Skroe]

They want a Strong Russia, Just like I want a Strong Britain, Skroe wants a Strong America and I am sure you want a Strong Germany or wherever.

I want a Smart America that happens to be Strong. Strong without smarts gets you nothing but an expiration date on being strong.

Did you see the Trump vs China thread? A key dysfunction of the Trumpkins was on display. They think with nothing but their balls and they always act like the most powerful country in the world has a continuous need to prove something.

[Fadeslol]

China is no threat. Its a regional power, not a superpower.
For all its manpower it is powerless to exercise force outside its region.
Hemmed in by Russia and India, its only means of expansion is by sea. And suprise suprise the military analysists of the worlds only superpower are fairly aware of this.
So who do you think dominates the pasific? ... Even if you completly rule out the us;
the fleet of japan (heavily selfimposed restrictions) and australia >>>>> China.

Now add to fact that China's economy is heavily dependent on international trade;
1. It would be fairly dumb to start a conflict and risk that relationship
2. They do not have the ability to secure their trade, as shipping is kind of a big deal when it comes to international trade.

All China has is soft power.
Its like a big tiger without theeth or claws.

China is ripping the US off and expanding. It's a threat.

"So who do you think dominates the pasific? ... Even if you completly rule out the us;
the fleet of japan (heavily selfimposed restrictions) and australia >>>>> China. "

China does.

"Now add to fact that China's economy is heavily dependent on international trade;
1. It would be fairly dumb to start a conflict and risk that relationship
2. They do not have the ability to secure their trade, as shipping is kind of a big deal when it comes to international trade."

1) Ripping the US off is not ok.
2) Yea great trade deals, see number 1

[Skroe]

Shock as European shows interest in threads about Europe on an international discussion board :P

Giving people the benefit of doubt is a fairly solid idea, I believe both our legal systems are founded in it.

Russia, Putin and the Putinistas have long, long since been less than worthy of that benefit of a doubt that you gave them and they've violated over and over. You're giving a benefit of a doubt to what amounts to the mother of all serial offenders.

[Deleted]

I want a Smart America that happens to be Strong. Strong without smarts gets you nothing but an expiration date on being strong.

Did you see the Trump vs China thread? A key dysfunction of the Trumpkins was on display. They think with nothing but their balls and they always act like the most powerful country in the world has a continuous need to prove something.

If you wanted a smart America you'd understand Russia right now is much less dangerous than a China poised at economic revolution.

[Keeponrage]

No, I live in a neighbouring country. First hand experience, so screw you.

It's easy for a dork like you to be a smartass from a safe distance.

ah ok, anecdotal evidence. And we hoped u would come up with something serious.

[Fadeslol]

I want a Smart America that happens to be Strong. Strong without smarts gets you nothing but an expiration date on being strong.

Did you see the Trump vs China thread? A key dysfunction of the Trumpkins was on display. They think with nothing but their balls and they always act like the most powerful country in the world has a continuous need to prove something.

Stop using "Trumpkins"

I have to disagree you on 2 reasons.

Russia isn't doing anything to the US and China is ripping the US off left and right. You can add they're expanding but main problem is being ripped off.

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If you wanted a smart America you'd understand Russia right now is much less dangerous than a China poised at economic revolution.

No it's ok for China to have economic warfare with the US. Hey it's liberal.

[Deleted]

Russia, Putin and the Putinistas have long, long since been less than worthy of that benefit of a doubt that you gave them and they've violated over and over. You're giving a benefit of a doubt to what amounts to the mother of all serial offenders.

Less worthy than those saying China isn't buying up tons of foreign land, basically trying to colonise Africa and showing strengths in the chinese sea as a petty diversion.

I think you failed to understand how much at war China is with the rest of the world right now. It's fighting an economic war, one that is already smashing headlong into America, Canada and Britain far harder than the Russians ever could.

The Housing crisis my boy, China is using that as a weapon.

[Skroe]

If you wanted a smart America you'd understand Russia right now is much less dangerous than a China poised at economic revolution.

This greatly overestimates China's power at the present and underestimates' Russia's relative power and danger.

China is tomorrow's problem. Russia is today's.

[Deleted]

There are a lot of ethnic Russians in Estonia, if they complain and start destabilizing Estonia, Putin would see that as a good reason to intercede on behalf of the ethnic Russians. That and he wants to regain the old Soviet lands.

The best way to thwart a bully is do it immediately and quickly, letting the problem get out of hand and letting it become chronic is a sure path to war, at least it has been historically.

Yup! This is exactly what Hitler did that sparked the second world war.

With Trump elected and beeing the tool that he is will leave the west divided and Putin unopposed. But can't count on half of the american people having foresight. Easier to believe theres magical corrupt emails.

[caervek]

The Housing crisis my boy, China is using that as a weapon.

What, they build their ghost cities in order to lure away our homeless veterans so we would be easier to invade? :P

[Slant]

What does Putin has to do with communism or USSR again, please?

He's swearing the nation in on his persona like the best communist leaders did. Him having been in KGB, he's also a relict of the cold ware era himself. While Europe transformed majestically after WW2, Russia has stopped any transformation they were about to do after the collapse of 1990. They had that one time historic chance to reunite with Europe as a proper global player, based on cooperation, trust and all that jazz, and they blew it the second they voted in Putin. So now, for the past couple years, they've ramped up the dusted propaganda machine again and now they're trying to provoke the West into another cold war. Making outrageous claims after outrageous claims while the West is puzzled why Russia is doing this. Because of a couple rocket defense bases in Romania? Are you fucking kidding me? Nobody in their right minds would give two fucks about a rocket base in Romania. What are they gonna do? Throw a dozen rockets on Russian soil? And then what? The Grand European invasion force?

Lmao, stop... it's just pathetic. If Europe has learned anything in the past 200 years, it's two things: 1. You can't invade Russia. 2. There is nothing in Russia worth invading for.

[caervek]

China is tomorrow's problem. Russia is today's.

You said this before.

On a previous page, not in the 1980's when it was still valid (well, to be fair you may have said it then too, I have no idea).

[The Emperor]

The fact you just called me a neocon just illustrates how hysterically out of your depth you are on this subject, among other failures.

You might as well have called me a lesbian, even though I'm a dude. It is pretty much an equally valid statement to calling me a neocon.

I'm sorry if foreign policy nuance goes over the head of your Trumpkin mind, but that's fine... this is how this stuff works and if you can't keep up, that's your problem, not mine.

Thankfully you neocon globalist hypocritical people have lost this election so that's /your/ problem not mine.

[Slant]

Caervek has been in every single Russian thread for like three years... and he's STILL giving these people the benefit of a doubt.

Caervek usually makes good points, though, so I consider talking to him worthwhile nonetheless. He has a pretty solid European point of view, and you do need some decent opposition sometimes, those Putinistas are not a challenge for you anymore. Europeans have to keep you on your toes in these debates. :P

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That was kinda my point, people say "omg putin wants another USSR" but he didn't take eastern Ukraine when it was offered to him. People say that assisting Syria (an ally) is expansionism, but how many allies have the west assisted over the years? Was Desert Storm a US led expansion into Iraq? I think not.

I could argue that he didn't make a grab for Eastern Ukraine because of the international public outcry after he nabbed Crimea. To me it felt as if he actually considered Eastern Ukraine for quite a few days. Certainly conflict wasn't limited to Crimea alone, and when there's conflict in the Ukraine, I have little doubt that Russian troops were involved in some manner. It's all highly suspicious to me.

[Flurryfang]

Crimea was caused by the EU and there was a vote. Redo the vote with US observers though.

Well there are many speculations about russia being behind some of the violent revolts in the Crimea area. The vote was also horrible. Might aswell not have happend. It only happend to create some acceptance from the outside world.

[Slant]

Thankfully you neocon globalist hypocritical people have lost this election so that's /your/ problem not mine.

You guys need to stop picking up buzzwords and using them as insults. It's kinda disqualifying your post regardless of the point you're trying to make. Not that I see a point you're trying to make, but I'm feeling generous today and pretend that you actually had a point.

[Deleted]

What, they build their ghost cities in order to lure away our homeless veterans so we would be easier to invade? :P

No, they buy out our new buildings and make housing a nightmare in London, New York and Montreal. Canada literally passed laws against this.

[Bullettime]

Stop using "Trumpkins"

I have to disagree you on 2 reasons.

Russia isn't doing anything to the US and China is ripping the US off left and right. You can add they're expanding but main problem is being ripped off.

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No it's ok for China to have economic warfare with the US. Hey it's liberal.

China is building more and posturing itself to be a larger economic and possibly even military threat in 20 years. China knows that, despite their current economic power, they would lose a ton by an outright confrontation with the US. This is why the US backing out of the things like the TPP was such a big deal as China is ready to sweep in and gain more power of Asia and the Pacific.

Russia on the other hand is becoming a starving dog being backed into the corner by the oil industry being on steep decline in much of the world, having no other real exports of note, and globalized trade passing them by as other countries find themselves to be bigger players. Russia is getting desperate to be the power players they once were and would be far more willing to overstep their bounds and force confrontation in the short term at a last ditch grab for global relevancy.