Baltic states and Russia : is there a real risk ?

[Sekach]

It is completely valid for western nations to regard the Russian Federation as an economic and political foe but seriously this whole talk of invasions and such?
Ludicrous. Russians are experiencing true stability after some rather awful decades and you think they are eager to piss it all away in some war for *minimal* gains?
Fearmongering and paranoia based on baltic and polish rusophobia, nothing more.

[Fadeslol]

It is completely valid for western nations to regard the Russian Federation as an economic and political foe but seriously this whole talk of invasions and such?
Ludicrous. Russians are experiencing true stability after some rather awful decades and you think they are eager to piss it all away in some war for *minimal* gains?
Fearmongering and paranoia based on baltic and polish rusophobia, nothing more.

It's liberal, just go with it. China is the biggest threat atm

[caervek]

Crimea was caused by the EU and there was a vote. Redo the vote with US observers though.

Western sources have travelled to Crimea since to conduct polling, it just wasn't big news as they mimicked the 2014 vote and the previous ones so didn't fit with the narritive.

[Deleted]

I think you failed to understand how much at war China is with the rest of the world right now. It's fighting an economic war, one that is already smashing headlong into America, Canada and Britain far harder than the Russians ever could.

Another, separate threat elsewhere does not remove the threat posed by Russia to its neighbours. Sure, Russia could never take the US head-on. But it's not the US we are worried about.

[Fadeslol]

Well there are many speculations about russia being behind some of the violent revolts in the Crimea area. The vote was also horrible. Might aswell not have happend. It only happend to create some acceptance from the outside world.

Again i'm not disagree with you on if Russia could have had a hand but the fact is the EU started everything, they had a vote in Crimea and joined. Now do it over and have the US observers there.

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Western sources have travelled to Crimea since to conduct polling, it just wasn't big news as they mimicked the 2014 vote and the previous ones so didn't fit with the narritive.

So are you saying the result was basicly the same and i was saying US observers because i don't trust the EU

[Logwyn]

Considering China is the threat, that wont happen. We need Russia to take down China

Threat to who or what exactly? Or is it still the cold war saber rattling still going on where its thought we need to play Russia and China off each other for some reason?

[Deleted]

Well there are many speculations about russia being behind some of the violent revolts in the Crimea area. The vote was also horrible. Might aswell not have happend. It only happend to create some acceptance from the outside world.

It hasn't been accepted by anyone else except some shitpiece dictatorships with close ties to Moscow. Russia and the human waste supporting it may be occupying Crimea now, but in the eyes of the free world, Crimea does not belong to Russia or its crooked puppets.

[Fadeslol]

Threat to who or what exactly? Or is it still the cold war saber rattling still going on where its thought we need to play Russia and China off each other for some reason?

Threat to the US, we are at economic war with them. They are ripping the US off and allowed to get away with it. I don't want to war China but they need to be put in place. I don't want war with anyone besides ISIS unless they ask for it.

[caervek]

It hasn't been accepted by anyone else except some shitpiece dictatorships with close ties to Moscow. Russia and the human waste supporting it may be occupying Crimea now, but in the eyes of the free world, Crimea does not belong to Russia or its crooked puppets.

The big problem though, is that the right to self determination is enshrined in the UN charter. So by opposing the will of Crimea the west is setting a HUGE double standard (I.E Kosovo).

[rowaasr13]

Russia does not have a powerful military. They have no experience. They have out dated equipment. They have poor training. They're small in size. Everything they posses is incompatible with our Western standards and inferior.

Uh, that's pretty much all I need to know about Western propaganda - it's beyond shitarded.

[Deleted]

Another, separate threat elsewhere does not remove the threat posed by Russia to its neighbours. Sure, Russia could never take the US head-on. But it's not the US we are worried about.

Russia couldn't even take the EU head on and I don't think it ever intends to.

This idea of Large stable states going to war has long gone since America proved during the Cold war Economic War is far easier to wage.

China is already in that war, creating hundreds of proxy states within Africa and creating their own economic enclaves within Western countries.

[Slant]

Uh, that's pretty much all I need to know about Western propaganda - it's beyond shitarded.

How many planes did you lose on that coal powered environmental hazard you call an aircraft carrier? :P

[rowaasr13]

It hasn't been accepted by anyone else except some shitpiece dictatorships with close ties to Moscow. Russia and the human waste supporting it may be occupying Crimea now, but in the eyes of the free world, Crimea does not belong to Russia or its crooked puppets.

The only voice that matters in question "who Crimea belongs to" is the voice of people who live here. You can shove your "eyes of free world" back where you pulled them out.

I always love to see "democratic" people raving about how THEIR opinion is the only one that matters, not what people (i.e. "demos" in "demo-cracy") say.

[Bullettime]

Uh, that's pretty much all I need to know about Western propaganda - it's beyond shitarded.

Russia is still using ancient tech and equipment compared to what's being pumped out by America. Even countries like Britain, Canada, and Germany have more well equipped militaries than what Russia would be rolling out, much less compared back to the US that has the most equipped and well trained military out there while also large in size.

What makes Russia "dangerous" is simply their mind games with NATO and their desperation if their economy continues on its current path.

[caervek]

How many planes did you lose on that coal powered environmental hazard you call an aircraft carrier? :P

They call it a heavy aircraft cruiser, it's actually a completely different type of ship. While a carrier is usually escorted by a carrier group, a HAC is an escort itself. It's essentially an anti-air ship that carries air supremacy fighters instead of SAMS*, thus increasing its combat radius.

*It does also carry SAMS, just not as many as is normal on a ship of this role.

(I know you didn't ask but I figured somebody may find the information interesting lol).

[The Emperor]

You guys need to stop picking up buzzwords and using them as insults. It's kinda disqualifying your post regardless of the point you're trying to make. Not that I see a point you're trying to make, but I'm feeling generous today and pretend that you actually had a point.

I care not for your self righteous comments. In your mind Russia mustn't give a fuck about national security, which Nato missiles is a threat to. You made a long winded post about how Russia lost its chance to reconcilliate and is reviving cold war. It's just beyond stupid. You forget how the West treated Russia after USSR imploded. Russia was treated as a loser. It's interests discarded. Western countries proceeded to absorb eastern Europe into Nato. The bombing of Jugoslavia which had historically close ties with Russia.
But you see what you want to see don't you? You would have the US to continue bullying nations left and right unopposed. Well, guess what, not happening.
You have been maimed intellectually by mainstream media. I would say I'm sorry but since that crone lost election and is no longer of any consequence, I say I don't care. Keep living in your echochamber

[caervek]

The fact is though, there was a sizeable minority there that identified themselves as Russian?

There has always been a pro-Russian majority in Crimea, hence the similar results of previous referendums and the anti Ukraine/EU/NATO riots/protests over the years.

[rowaasr13]

How many planes did you lose on that coal powered environmental hazard you call an aircraft carrier? :P

I guess less than cities lost by head-cutting "moderate opposition" scum that West so love to kiss in the ass. Less than their shithead commanders and some US operatives sent to hell. Anything else?

[Slant]

They call it a heavy aircraft cruiser, it's actually a completely different type of ship. While a carrier is usually escorted by a carrier group, a HAC is an escort itself. It's essentially an anti-air ship that carries air supremacy fighters instead of SAMS*, thus increasing its combat radius.

*It does also carry SAMS, just not as many as is normal on a ship of this role.

(I know you didn't ask but I figured somebody may find the information interesting lol).

It's actually interesting, so thanks anyway. It's still a bit of an embarassment, if you ask me. Parading that rusting bucket past our high tech nations like that. I wonder if the captain was red in the face when they passed England and all those photos popped up on the internet.

[Flurryfang]

Again i'm not disagree with you on if Russia could have had a hand but the fact is the EU started everything, they had a vote in Crimea and joined. Now do it over and have the US observers there.

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So are you saying the result was basicly the same and i was saying US observers because i don't trust the EU

I sadly think that the current situation in Crimea have moved every non-pro russian voter out and the area is now 100% russian. So i think it is too late to really find out, if Crimea actually wanted to join Russia or stay with Ukriane. It also comes down to 2 very important factors:

1:Most people in Crimea would proberly prefer for things to stay as they are, since the transition to become a russian state was so chaotic and very unpleasent. So the will to stay stable and without major changes is proberly higher then to go back and be part of Ukraine, even if many population really wish that they were part of Ukraine again.
2: As somebody has proberly said in this thread already, i don't know if Russia would ever allow a new voting if there ever was a chance for the population to vote no. They need the area to keep the black sea free of NATO/US ships and to keep their own supplies running. So Russia would proberly block any attempt of a new vote.