Baltic states and Russia : is there a real risk ?

[Fadeslol]

We back the IS by... supporting Kurds that fight IS? How exactly does this work in your head?

No, we support the "Rebels", yes Kurds involved, who turn out most of them are ISIS. We just use ISIS to try and get Assad out of power instead of Allying with Russia, taking out ISIS and securing the country. Then forcing Assad out of power when he said after ISIS is gone, he would leave power. We have no moral high ground being in Syria and Russia was invited in by Syria.

[Flarelaine]

Well, i can tell you. Imagine ISIS establishes their khalifat in your country. Are you going to let them "determine themselves" or eliminate the terrorists?

Chechnya declared independence two decades before ISIS was ever a thing.

[hlodvig1505]

Russia is still using ancient tech and equipment compared to what's being pumped out by America. Even countries like Britain, Canada, and Germany have more well equipped militaries than what Russia would be rolling out, much less compared back to the US that has the most equipped and well trained military out there while also large in size.

What makes Russia "dangerous" is simply their mind games with NATO and their desperation if their economy continues on its current path.

Every single country is still using "ancient tech".

[caervek]

Haha, oh the shame...

Wait, my bad.

It was US that misidentified it not the Americans XD

https://s24.postimg.org/sm862rsar/1476976668982.jpg

[hlodvig1505]

Chechnya declared independence two decades before ISIS was ever a thing.

It has the same basis - unstoppable lust for power and money covered with some kind of "religion".

[Deleted]

I was reading a little about Estonia, Nato, all the usual stuff about the " next potential annexations " of Russia after Crimea. I have it hard to evaluate the risk in the next years right now ?

FFS

Russia doesnt just go around annexing countries because it feels like it... there was a very good reason why Russia annexed Crimea - Sevastapol.

I suggest you do your research and educate yourself on this.

Basically one of Russias main Naval bases what was on a very small piece of land still owned by Russia but landlocked by Crimea. Russia always had an agreement with the Ukraine that they would keep Sevastapol with access rights through Crimea. but when the Ukrainain revolution occurred Russia obviously panicked that they would lose a massive Naval base to the West. So ofc they moved to protect their assets.

Obviously, it was convenient that the vast majority of Crimean people want to be part of Russia, but that wasnt the reason Russia occupied the Crimea. It was to protect Sevastapol.

[Thunderball]

He's swearing the nation in on his persona like the best communist leaders did. Him having been in KGB, he's also a relict of the cold ware era himself. While Europe transformed majestically after WW2, Russia has stopped any transformation they were about to do after the collapse of 1990. They had that one time historic chance to reunite with Europe as a proper global player, based on cooperation, trust and all that jazz, and they blew it the second they voted in Putin. So now, for the past couple years, they've ramped up the dusted propaganda machine again and now they're trying to provoke the West into another cold war. Making outrageous claims after outrageous claims while the West is puzzled why Russia is doing this. Because of a couple rocket defense bases in Romania? Are you fucking kidding me? Nobody in their right minds would give two fucks about a rocket base in Romania. What are they gonna do? Throw a dozen rockets on Russian soil? And then what? The Grand European invasion force?

Lmao, stop... it's just pathetic. If Europe has learned anything in the past 200 years, it's two things: 1. You can't invade Russia. 2. There is nothing in Russia worth invading for.

Most communist heads of state were bureaucrats, not leaders. KGB was just USSR's internal special service, one of their jobs is to catch spies, that had nothing to do with Cold War era specifically. US have their NSA, Britain has their MI 5, are they relicts of Cold War aswell?

Russia right after the collapse of the USSR and right now are completely different. Anyone who thinks it's not true is completely delusional (or watches too much of propaganda). Putin was actually seen as in both Europe and Russia as someone who would bring Russia and Europe together (he served in Germany for years, speaks fluent deutsch, is friends with numerous prominent german polititians), but the whole idea has fallen through because of external pressure. That chance is still out there, Europe just needs to start working towards their own interests, not US interests.

The only propaganda I see comes from the western media. The first time it hit me really hard when the whole South Ossetia situation started, I was in Hamburg at the time. Western media started portraying the situation in the way that people started believing that Russia is actually attacking Georgia when it was blatantly obvious it was the other way around (there was a huge build up to the conflict that western people simply had no idea about). CNN LITERALLY showed georgian Grads firing at Tshinvali with the caption "Russian Grads firing at Poti" (Poti is a town on the border in Georgia). Also, what's the provokation exactly? Which US or EU interests are being threatened? Which claims? I suggest you research the subject before jumping into any conclusions.

On the "couple of rocket defense bases". Those are not rocket defense bases, those are facilities degigned to intercept ICBMs on the early stage of the flight. Their purpose is to make US territory invulnerable from ICBMs launched from european part of Russia. At the expense of European safety. Those also provoke Russia to improve their ICBMs to either be able avoid those anti-missiles or relocate launch facilities. Who's provoking again? Fun fact: US says that those are designed to intercept Iranian ICBMs (and those cant even reach Europe).

[Deleted]

No risk, Putin whant easy prey. The Baltic is part of the NATO, even if EU is political fragmented and politically paralysis, the NATO war plan will roll on. Hence Putin will not attack the Baltic.

[caervek]

Russia doesnt just go around annexing countries because it feels like it... there was a very good reason why Russia annexed Crimea - Sevastapol.

That and the people of Crimea wanting to rejoin Russia, that was a somewhat important factor.

[Fadeslol]

Wait, my bad.

It was US that misidentified it not the Americans XD

https://s24.postimg.org/sm862rsar/1476976668982.jpg

Murica #getrekt xD jking we are on the same side

[Slant]

Did someone seriously just use the Bosnian war as an example of Western imperialism and disrespect towards Russia? I don't think I've ever physically cringed while reading this board until today.

I know right? :P

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No, we support the "Rebels", yes Kurds involved, who turn out most of them are ISIS. We just use ISIS to try and get Assad out of power instead of Allying with Russia, taking out ISIS and securing the country. Then forcing Assad out of power when he said after ISIS is gone, he would leave power. We have no moral high ground being in Syria and Russia was invited in by Syria.

What? Kurds are ISIS now? Okay... since when? :P

- - - Updated - - -

Wait, my bad.

It was US that misidentified it not the Americans XD

https://s24.postimg.org/sm862rsar/1476976668982.jpg

Haha, that's properly hilarious. As much as the British annoy me politically, I love them for these bits of self inflicted humour.

[rowaasr13]

I sadly think that the current situation in Crimea have moved every non-pro russian voter out and the area is now 100% russian. So i think it is too late to really find out, if Crimea actually wanted to join Russia or stay with Ukriane. It also comes down to 2 very important factors:

Why you think that? Did you base you thinking on, you know, reality? There are some local clowns that periodically go around on performance like driving with UA flag or something like that. As long as they don't break law by actually harming people or property - nobody cares.

1:Most people in Crimea would proberly prefer for things to stay as they are, since the transition to become a russian state was so chaotic and very unpleasent. So the will to stay stable and without major changes is proberly higher then to go back and be part of Ukraine, even if many population really wish that they were part of Ukraine again.

"Probably, probably"... Once again, are you just pulling this out of your head and arguing with yourself or what? Why don't you ACTUALLY TALK to someone living in Crimea?

2: As somebody has proberly said in this thread already, i don't know if Russia would ever allow a new voting if there ever was a chance for the population to vote no. They need the area to keep the black sea free of NATO/US ships and to keep their own supplies running. So Russia would proberly block any attempt of a new vote.

Russia will not block anything, because Crimea was fighting to go back home all those 20 years since 1991 and will always say "yes" to their long time dream. Guess like a regular average Western-propaganda brainwashed man you didn't knew it WASN'T FIRST referendum, right? Go look it up. But at the same time Russia won't run another referendum just to please you because it is complete waste of time and resources. Results won't change and West won't accept "democracy that isn't going our way", so why bother?

Russia keeps filling Crimea with federal money for now and lots of people there start to think they are now special snowflakes. Of course they mostly support the government now.

See? That's what I'm talking about. Typical western democrat will always find an excuse to shit over any referendum.

[Strah]

As a person living in Latvia - Russia doesnt really give a shit about us. Crimea is an extremely important port for Russian forces and almost 90% of people living in Crimea are indeed Russian. It's funny to see Americans and most of the west scream occupation and that Russia took Crimea by force, when, in fact, the people voted themselves out (not really lawfully, though, but that is a fferent matter). Does look like he Hillary-Trump circlejerk.

According to the recent reports I've seen in our news, Riga, our capital city is ~47% populated by russians,) and only about 43% are actual Latvians. Everyone here speaks both Russian and Latvian, except people coming from rural areas.

[Flurryfang]

Why you think that? Did you base you thinking on, you know, reality? There are some local clowns that periodically go around on performance like driving with UA flag or something like that. As long as they don't break law by actually harming people or property - nobody cares.

"Probably, probably"... Once again, are you just pulling this out of your head and arguing with yourself or what? Why don't you ACTUALLY TALK to someone living in Crimea?
Russia will not block anything, because Crimea was fighting to go back home all those 20 years since 1991 and will always say "yes" to their long time dream. Guess like a regular average Western-propaganda brainwashed man you didn't knew it WASN'T FIRST referendum, right? Go look it up. But at the same time Russia won't run another referendum just to please you because it is complete waste of time and resources. Results won't change and West won't accept "democracy that isn't going our way", so why bother?

Uhh so angry. You really are mr angry! I name you the superhero Angerman!

I am not trying to educate here, just giving my opinion

[Fadeslol]

I know right? :P

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What? Kurds are ISIS now? Okay... since when? :P

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Haha, that's properly hilarious. As much as the British annoy me politically, I love them for these bits of self inflicted humour.

I never said Kurds were ISIS, i said "Rebels" which include Kurds and we arm "Rebels" which most are ISIS.

[Slant]

Most communist heads of state were bureaucrats, not leaders. KGB was just USSR's internal special service, one of their jobs is to catch spies, that had nothing to do with Cold War era specifically. US have their NSA, Britain has their MI 5, are they relicts of Cold War aswell?

Russia right after the collapse of the USSR and right now are completely different. Anyone who thinks it's not true is completely delusional (or watches too much of propaganda). Putin was actually seen as in both Europe and Russia as someone who would bring Russia and Europe together (he served in Germany for years, speaks fluent deutsch, is friends with numerous prominent german polititians), but the whole idea has fallen through because of external pressure. That chance is still out there, Europe just needs to start working towards their own interests, not US interests.

The only propaganda I see comes from the western media. The first time it hit me really hard when the whole South Ossetia situation started, I was in Hamburg at the time. Western media started portraying the situation in the way that people started believing that Russia is actually attacking Georgia when it was blatantly obvious it was the other way around (there was a huge build up to the conflict that western people simply had no idea about). CNN LITERALLY showed georgian Grads firing at Tshinvali with the caption "Russian Grads firing at Poti" (Poti is a town on the border in Georgia). Also, what's the provokation exactly? Which US or EU interests are being threatened? Which claims? I suggest you research the subject before jumping into any conclusions.

On the "couple of rocket defense bases". Those are not rocket defense bases, those are facilities degigned to intercept ICBMs on the early stage of the flight. Their purpose is to make US territory invulnerable from ICBMs launched from european part of Russia. At the expense of European safety. Those also provoke Russia to improve their ICBMs to either be able avoid those anti-missiles or relocate launch facilities. Who's provoking again? Fun fact: US says that those are designed to intercept Iranian ICBMs (and those cant even reach Europe).

There are a lot of people that say the CIA is actually a cold war relict. Americans included. See, this is what Russia doesn't get. The West is actually quite happy to criticise itself, time and time again, over and over again... Unlike Russia, where the current secret services are consolidated into a single KGB-like agency again.

Oh, I'm not saying Russia and the USSR are the same. I'm saying Russia wishes it had some of the glory of the USSR back. This can be seen in that one Q&A that PUtin gave about how great Russia is, how the world has to talk to Russia and all that bullshit that he spouted. Look at his interviews, how often he verbally takes a dump on the West. And you're talking to me about propaganda? What about his little cold war era antics where he doesn't speak German with Merkel, just to give her a hard time? Yeah, that is cooperation on a global scale. Petty little pranks just to annoy other political leaders. Well, it's not Putin making the calls on sanctions, it's Merkel. That sure paid off, Mr. Putin!

I'm not going to dig into the rocket base discussion again, Skroe has quoted and posted entire volumes on the topic of global nuclear defense strategy. Feel free to read up on that, I basically defer to his knowledge in this as he's the only one presenting a solid case and is able to back it up with sources other than RT or some other propaganda outlet.

[Fadeslol]

I never said Kurds were ISIS, i said "Rebels" which include Kurds and we arm "Rebels" which most are ISIS.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-cont...-version11.pdf

page 3, b and c line.

[hlodvig1505]

No, not really.

But look at it this way:
East-European countries get economical benefits from this.
NATO gets to whip its dick out and show everyone how big it is.

It's a win-win for them.

Best. Post. Ever.

[caervek]

I am not trying to educate here, just giving my opinion

Not trying to be rude, but maybe if you don't understand something you should ask about it instead of giving an opinion. That way you don't come over as silly and he won't come over as angry/rude when he explains it to you.

[Slant]

I never said Kurds were ISIS, i said "Rebels" which include Kurds and we arm "Rebels" which most are ISIS.

Why mention Kurds then? Are you trying to pull a fast one here? I think you are... misleading posting is what I call it. :P