LFR's effort-reward model

[tikcol]

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I respect your opinion as much as I respect my own. Bring your respectful opinion to the conversation after reading mine and we can have a great time discussing them. I would prefer if you didn't come here just to insult the LFR community though. Some people are bordering bully status right now.

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The current LFR effort-reward model isn't fair.

I've an avid LFR enthusiast, it's true. I still objectively say that the current reward model isn't good enough. LFR's gear extremely low in item level shouldn't be allowed anymore.

Today we have a fairy flexible progression path. Normal -> Heroic -> Mythic.

LFR stands alone as a new form of raiding. It's very unpredictable, your group isn't organized and some would say even challenging.

The thought immediately comes to mind. Why is LFR's gear so weak in comparison? Organized raiding isn't what most players want, but neither is Mythic+.

Mythic+ is where they are funneling everyone that doesn't want to raid.

Why?

The answer is simple. We're forced to do it if we want good shot at the best gear available.

Now we go back to the effort-reward model Blizzard has put in place for the LFR loot. How can they justify LFR's loot being so weak in comparison to Mythic?

I don't want to partake in organized raiding, let's even forget mythic raiding, so why is me having great gear a problem for mythic raiders? The answer is beyond obvious. It isn't.

LFR gear should be on-par with the top gear from organized raiding. This would close the gap between the so called "hardcore players" and the casual players that just want their character to feel powerful on a MMORPG where interacting with others is a required

Let's close the gap and stop interacting with each other based on our ilevel.

[Novakhoro]

Ill bite. Again... You have not provided a positive argument other than "I want it, give it to me." The typical fashion is that skill and effort reaps benefits. Legion has already provided avenues for the most casual and downright awful, keyboard-turning, clickers to get the best gear available in the game for killing a boar. Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile I guess. Do you really wish to turn the game into mindless button clicking with no skill involved in order to get your instant gratification?

[tikcol]

Ill bite. Again... You have not provided a positive argument other than "I want it, give it to me." The typical fashion is that skill and effort reaps benefits. Legion has already provided avenues for the most casual and downright awful, keyboard-turning, clickers to get the best gear available in the game for killing a boar. Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile I guess. Do you really wish to turn the game into mindless button clicking with no skill involved in order to get your instant gratification?

It's not about what I want. I believe that the game would be better off by giving that option to players yes. If they want to play it as a "mindless button clicking with no skill involved" game,

then that option should be available.

I also believe that LFR isn't anything like that.

[ComputerNerd]

The lack of organisation as said provides a different challenge, due to lack of player control over trying to dictate some minimum amount of experience or overgearing.
So that I feel provides at least an argument as to why it should provide gear following a similar model to higher formats, as in trinkets and tier but just offering perhaps a lower item level.

I don't think it should offer the best available, but it should not be attractive to organised raiders either.
Blizzard themselves said it should only be attractive to organised raiders when they were not able to commit.
But the lack of a loot lockout on it means that isn't the case.
It should only be for those who can't commit for whatever reason, not being an additional option for those that can.

[Eranthe]

"Please put me on the same level as people who actually care to put time and energy and thought into the game." -OP

[Turismon]

865 posts....the smell of troll is strong in you.

[Kanegasi]

I agree that LFR should provide slightly higher gear, as long as Normal, Heroic, and Mythic rise an equal amount.

[tikcol]

"Please put me on the same level as people who actually care to put time and energy and thought into the game." -OP

It isn't as simple as that. I believe players that decide not to partake in organized raiding shouldn't be labeled as weak and useless by the rest of the community.

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I agree that LFR should provide slightly higher gear, as long as Normal, Heroic, and Mythic rise an equal amount.

That goes against the whole purpose

[kary]

LFR is raiding as much as hitting a world boss is raiding.

It isn't.

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It isn't as simple as that. I believe players that decide not to partake in organized raiding shouldn't be labeled as weak and useless by the rest of the community.

But they are.

[tikcol]

The lack of organisation as said provides a different challenge, due to lack of player control over trying to dictate some minimum amount of experience or overgearing.
So that I feel provides at least an argument as to why it should provide gear following a similar model to higher formats, as in trinkets and tier but just offering perhaps a lower item level.

I can conceded on the lower item level, not overwhelmingly lower like it is now. LFR gear is objectively useless next to a piece of Mythic gear.

While the effort-reward doesn't follow the same correlation.

[Eranthe]

It isn't as simple as that. I believe players that decide not to partake in organized raiding shouldn't be labeled as weak and useless by the rest of the community.

i think you're the first one in this thread to apply that label.

[tikcol]

LFR is raiding as much as hitting a world boss is raiding.

It isn't.

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But they are.

That's very rude and you know it. Our gear is weaker, we're not worse players.

[ComputerNerd]

It isn't as simple as that. I believe players that decide not to partake in organized raiding shouldn't be labeled as weak and useless by the rest of the community.

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That goes against the whole purpose

It is an arrogant assumption that it is always about choice.
But that seems to come with organised raiding, this belief it it only ever about laziness.
And you wonder why LFR remains so popular, why people want to avoid that petty and immature mentality.

LFR is raiding as much as hitting a world boss is raiding.

By that argument normal is not either, because it is a fraction of mythic.
That is just an arbitrary argument used by jerks upset that there is a format they can't enforce or control.

Players are not calling normal dungeons something other than dungeons, but they apply that arbitrary distinction between LFR and Raiding simply to try and prove their superiority rather than letting us decide who we can respect and recognise as superior ourselves, and it will be for different reasons than item level or achievements.

[tikcol]

i think you're the first one in this thread to apply that label.

You should look more closely. There's one right in this page.

[ThePants999]

Tikcol, have you even tried to play devil's advocate with yourself? Pretend you're a game designer for a minute, and try to think through what negative implications your idea might have.

If you can see the ones that are obvious to the rest of us, you'll realise how foolish you look, and hopefully you'll do that in advance next time.

If you can't, then you really have no business posting threads like these.

[Dug]

Still pushing the "we're forced" argument I see. You're not forced. If you want better gear then you can run harder content. But that choice is yours to make. There's a lot of people that are content with LFRs level right now. You're not because you want to do the bare minimum but be on par with everyone else. So make the choice to be more hardcore or keep playing casually.

[tikcol]

Tikcol, have you even tried to play devil's advocate with yourself? Pretend you're a game designer for a minute, and try to think through what negative implications your idea might have.

If you can see the ones that are obvious to the rest of us, you'll realise how foolish you look, and hopefully you'll do that in advance next time.

If you can't, then you really have no business posting threads like these.

That's the first thing I do every time I create a thread. I play devil's advocate with myself and arrive at the conclusions I post here.

I took note of your advice. Your opinion is greatly appreciated but I can't agree with it.

[kary]

That's very rude and you know it. Our gear is weaker, we're not worse players.

You are.

100% of the time you are.

[tikcol]

You are.

100% of the time you are.

Why is that?

[Teri]

Right now some of the loot seems weaker due to other sources having increased.

World quest gave 835 max, as did EN LFR , then ToV came along buffing world quest to 845, and then another +5 ilevel buff came to the raid itself making ToV LFR 845/845/850. , always been 15 itemlevels below normal.

Nighthold LFR however is listed at 850 , while normal is 875, suddenly there's a 25 ilevel gap.

If blizz follows previous trends I'd expect it to be buffed to 860 along with World quest to 855-860 as well.