New build is f*cking A!

[Jhewn]

Stoked momentum won't be top tier.

[Deleted]

This thread is the living embodiment of the reason why we need a Momentum megathread.

This way both factions can go at each other's throat in a proper environment instead of polluting other threads.

Fair point, apologies.

On topic happy to hear that damage's improving, still holding out for AotHG, though hopefully I go without legendaries up until 7.1.5 and snag shoulders *dreams*

On shoulder related note, what ya'll reckon are the chances shoulders will be nerfed pre-launch or 2 months after launch?

[troqu]

Chaos Cleave at the moment outperforms Blade dance with first blood in single target, aoe and cleave aslong as you aren't a dh that struggles with managing his fury. Especially since it procs on annihilation as well. Blade dance however is good at lower gear levels since the fury cost is so low. Both were very close initially but ever since the mastery buff that has changed ^^ so the ability scales now very well with mastery. ^^

Explain the bolded bit please.. I can see it outperforming in aoe and cleave but how in hell is it outperforming anything on st... Did they change something in this most recent build?

[dark666105]

Explain the bolded bit please.. I can see it outperforming in aoe and cleave but how in hell is it outperforming anything on st... Did they change something in this most recent build?

It hits the main target.

[Raiju]

On shoulder related note, what ya'll reckon are the chances shoulders will be nerfed pre-launch or 2 months after launch?

I'm hoping it gets nerfed to reasonable levels before going live, otherwise people could end up locking into meta relics only to have it (and consequently them) nerfed significantly.

[Deleted]

You're just going to have to accept that the developers do not agree with you. Nor do many (perhaps most) of the demon hunter players. How you feel is really irrelevant. You only feel that way because you enjoy the momentum talent. You like a system of haves and have nots where there people who enjoy momentum get an acceptable class, and the people who don't, do not. It isn't difficult. It doesn't make you a special snowflake. It is just clunky at best with the way the game engine works. At worst, it is near unplayable for people who don't have low enough latency.

So his feelings about how the spec feels is completely irrelevant; Only the developers opinion (shared by you it sure looks like) matters because it somehow fits your needs. What facist logic is this, honestly... People here are discussing why they love momentum; arguing why it should be a viable option due to the extremely unique gameplay it offers. A lot of DH's (mainly the ones that play more than the average player i find) seem to like Momentum, probably because it takes more than 10 minutes to get used to.
The thing is tho, momentum is currently the only thing about DH's that id' say is atleast somewhat unique to the class. If you remove it we are just another class with a standard resource and basic cooldowns. We would probably be somewhere between Warrior and Rogue, and the gameplay would be way to braindead. Havoc is supposed to be easy; and it is, but not this easy.

No rational developer would leave it that way on a class that only has a single spec for the role, so it is being fixed. WoW isn't an FPS with workable lag compensation, and as latency goes up, that playstyle gets very unworkable, very fast.

I don't know what game you are playing, or what PC you are using but Momentum is not a cluncky ability; I mean sure, if you can't point in the right direction and use your WASD effectively it can feel akward, but you get past that by playing the damn game. I hated momentum initally, but because it's the best talent i forced myself to play around with it and i have to applaud Blizzard for this talent.

- - - Updated - - -

Most of the DHs I know in game have either stopped playing because they didn't want to deal with the horrible playstyle that momentum makes, or knowingly do less dps to make it an enjoyable class by not using that talent while they build up an alt that isn't hobbled by such a horrible mechanic.

Probably rerolled to a Warrior or Rogue, and thats where they should go.

This board has a very vocal few that don't represent the actual make up.

And a very vocal minority of snowflakes that want their rights to complaint about compelling gameplay in a video game.

Fixing the disparity will keep a lot more people playing the class. The special snowflakes will be angry, but, honestly, who cares.

Undoubtably the game should cater to the players who like to reroll every week; the same people who complain about having things to do at lvl 110. If Blizzard takes away Pet Battles and LFR will you be angry? Or does that content not qualify you to be a special snowflake?

Facist Snowflake Detected.

[D3cadent]

And here come the question beggars.

It doesn't require skill. It isn't hard. It just isn't fun. Your argument falls flat on its face because you never bother establishing what is difficult about it. You aren't a special snowflake. It isn't hard. You aren't entitled to anything special because you enjoy a dumb mechanic.

Different mythic levels are objectively harder. Momentum isn't. You can repeat it all you want, but you're just fooling yourself.

Pretty sure you're the fool dressing up your opinion as fact.

As a concept it is quite simple. It doesn't require much skill to understand. Maximising its use in the middle of a raid with multiple other things to focus on, however (particularly in a fight like M Odyn), is where the difficulty lies. If it were so simple, we'd all be running around with 63%++ uptimes on the buff on every pull, but the FACT is, as it stands, even those of us with 99th percentile logs are not consistently doing this.

People like you trying to argue against this is incredibly amusing because it's quite clear you are actually the deluded goose you are accusing momentum proponents of being.

[High Marshal Sigismund]

This argument has become so silly. Momentum is absolutely difficult to play correctly. So difficult in some encounters in fact, that choosing Nemesis or Fel Eruption over it will become a reality many players will have to face. This means that Momentum will no longer dominate the class but fill its own respected niche, which is where the talent should have been in the first place.

Take Momentum for Mythic+, take it for encounters in raids that regularly have 2+ mobs. Take Nemesis/FE in pure ST encounters or ones that will likely get you killed for using Momentum. Get over it already.

[MatDaemon]

This argument has become so silly. Momentum is absolutely difficult to play correctly. So difficult in some encounters in fact, that choosing Nemesis or Fel Eruption over it will become a reality many players will have to face. This means that Momentum will no longer dominate the class but fill its own respected niche, which is where the talent should have been in the first place.

Take Momentum for Mythic+, take it for encounters in raids that regularly have 2+ mobs. Take Nemesis/FE in pure ST encounters or ones that will likely get you killed for using Momentum. Get over it already.

You, sir or madam, are the voice of reason.

[Yhcti]

[QUOTE=Occar;43668763]You're just going to have to accept that the developers do not agree with you. Nor do many (perhaps most) of the demon hunter players. How you feel is really irrelevant. You only feel that way because you enjoy the momentum talent. You like a system of haves and have nots where there people who enjoy momentum get an acceptable class, and the people who don't, do not. It isn't difficult. It doesn't make you a special snowflake. It is just clunky at best with the way the game engine works. At worst, it is near unplayable for people who don't have low enough latency.

No rational developer would leave it that way on a class that only has a single spec for the role, so it is being fixed. WoW isn't an FPS with workable lag compensation, and as latency goes up, that playstyle gets very unworkable, very fast.

[COLOR="#417394"][SIZE=1]

This is hilarious.. quitting a class coz of momentum? momentum is the reason the class is so fun! without it we're just another rogue, with less utility. It really pains me to see how many less than average players whine about this game being unfair... it's like millennials are literally taking over.. next we'll have people complaining about how they didn't get glad title even though they've gone 5-100 and are 1200 rating.

[Nezia]

Wait... so now we will be sitting behind the boss like everyone else, literally spamming ONE single skill, and all this while TG was turnned into heroic throw 2.0? Oh my, I cannot wait for this much fun and engaging playstyle!

[Yhcti]

I still can't see Momentum being beaten on AoE/Cleave though.. I can only see Nemesis working for ST. So i'll take Momentum 99.99% of the time with Fel blade and First blood

[Segus1992]

Not to dampen your joy, but as they keep saying tuning numbers aren't done yet. So just like those who are screaming for buffs, I wouldn't celebrate a 30-50K dps jump until it goes live.

It shows that Blizzard's intention is to buff DHs from their previous state on the PTR though.

Which is good, because I think the DH community would've had a collective stroke (as uncommon as it is at the early age of 12) if it wasn't. Fuck me, these forums have been (are) more toxic than LoL's stereotypically toxic community.

[Yhcti]

Ah I see we'll still fel rush, but still, momentum I think will be king for Aoe/cleave/majority of content.... nemesis the op said would be godly with legendary items, but without those, I suppose it's still just "slightly" better?

what is our skill prio going to be in 7.1.5 during nemesis/momentum?

fel blade > first blood > chaos strike?

[Deleted]

See, the logic is simple. If a talent is more complicated to play it should provide more damage. This means passive talents that take complexity away (like demon blades) should do the least damage (this was even stated by Blizzard. I know it is currently not the case), one time CDs should be in the middle (like Nemesis) and talents that make the playstyle more complex (like momentum) should always be on top. If that is not the case, then there is no reason for momentum to exist. And if there is no reason for it so exist, why not just replace it with something else?

Your logic is right. But there are players like me who someday dont want to play with 110% concentration on an fight. I would like to pick Nemesis over momentum some times, but i really cant because it's not competative.
With this buff on Nemesis, i can switch and will not lose too much dmg.
If you play Momentum optimal you will surely do more dmg. But if you suck at momentum, you cant whine because nemesis is better.
If you want an elitist playstyle, then u better play like one and handle nearly max uptime, else don't play the harder way.

Demonblades, on the other hand, is the best talent choice out there. You simple dont need to use that ultra lowhitting generator and can use your hardhitting abilities instead. I would not play DH without it anymore.
First i thought it was an faggot talent, until i tryed it in Legion. Best change ever ingame for me =)

(This post is not directly against you, only my PoV and your post was good to reply, so pls dont trigger)

[sajin001]

Wait... so now we will be sitting behind the boss like everyone else, literally spamming ONE single skill, and all this while TG was turnned into heroic throw 2.0? Oh my, I cannot wait for this much fun and engaging playstyle!

Because momentum builds with DB use such a wide variety of abilities

[Deleted]

Even though I really enjoy momentum, I'm glad that we'll be getting other viable ways to play the spec and just generally have more options and some actual decisions to make when speccing for a certain fight. Glad to see Fel Blade is possibly making its way into rotations!

[Nezia]

Your logic is right. But there are players like me who someday dont want to play with 110% concentration on an fight. I would like to pick Nemesis over momentum some times, but i really cant because it's not competative.

Sure thing you can, but you will deal less damage, and that's what should happen when you don't want/can't play the spec for 100% of it's potential.

Ever since they introduced the talent system in mop there has never been a true choice, it's always "talent A is better for single target, talent B is better for aoe, talent C is better at high gear"(which is still better than the old system, don't get me wrong), every single time they tried to add some 'choice'(with two talents that only deal ST damage for example) one of the talents always ends up dead, just look at our new momentum tier, where momentum will be picked for aoe/cleave and either nemesis or fel eruption will end up as a dead talent depending on tunning(sure, fel eruption will end up being better on FULL ST fights where you cannot stay on your target for long, which ends being like... 1 fight per tier or even less).

[Gratlim]

Finally some variations for Havoc. Might just sub back.
Not having the ring I am a bit concerned about fury starving though.

[Tezrex]

I don't have the ring and I certainly won't have the shoulders.

You can't possibly know that the shoulders won't drop for you or the ring in the near future for that matter.

I'm not even gaining Fel Blade because that's already better on live for single target.

You say this, but none of the top 10 parses for heroic Nyth or Ursoc (which are the only 2 pure single target fights in EN) used fel blade. In fact, only 3 of the top 100 parses used it on Nyth and 2 of the top 100 used it on Ursoc, neither of which cleared the top 50 for either fight.

That's why I wasn't happy to see the ring getting changed back to 1-12 fury in the patch notes. I don't want that buff to go to the ring. I want them to buff the fury generation of the class not the legendary.

The point of the nerf to demon blades was to make the other options in that tier more viable. Things like achieving higher momentum up times through effective use of VR with prepared create more options for this tier. The nerf to the ring brought down the class's ability to generate fury as a whole where as the nerf to demon blades only brought it down for 1 talent. If they had buffed fury generation of demon's bite instead of nerfing demon's blade would you be less upset, even though the result would effectively be the same?

Also our talent choices are starting to suck. Nemesis should be our fallback for when Momentum isn't suited for the fight, First Blood shouldn't lose to Chaos Cleave, and Demonic should be scrapped for an actual third talent choice.

Our talent choices are improving dramatically. The fact that there is even discussion about which talent is better in certain situations is proof of that. I love momentum, but while I think it is the most engaging game play and feel that if used will it should perform the highest, I don't feel like it should be by such a drastic amount that anyone who wants to use nemesis or FE feels gimped. In addition, certain mechanics in fights, like the web link on M Spider, provide mechanics that completely ruin a DH damage because it negates our ability to use our momentum abilities and in situations like that I would love an alternative talent that isn't going to bring my damage down so low that its the same as if I had not had any momentum up time for that minute of the fight.

One last thing, currently on the PTR Chaos Cleave also hits the primary target, which I hope is a bug that gets fixed. I would much rather use first blood in a single target situation simply because it adds more diversity to our rotation and because I love the way it looks.