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  1. #821
    Deleted
    Interesting arguments from some, calling Mary-Ann(random name, sorry Mary-Anns) a whore for wanting an abortion.
    Her womb, her rights. If she doesn't want it, it's her right. Forcing her to carry it to term is just cruel and probably won't make her love it anyway. Off to the orphanage we go, where's there love and happiness to spare right?

    Seeing the words unborn child and baby thrown around. It's a glob of goo, unintelligent, non sentient.
    Take someone's period and add a fap, stick it to flypaper, won't make it a baby.

    Also, we're not really calling it Happy Conceptionday right? Or Happy heartbeatday? Happy brainactivityday?
    Or when people ask how old you are, do you say your birthday + 9 months? What if you were early? +8 months?

  2. #822
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    Not going to solve the issue PERIOD.

    There is never going to be any agreement on this issue in the US (in most of the rest of the western world it's not even a debate).

    Only solution would be God appearing and saying it's against his will, doubt we'll see that ever!
    Well thankfully religiosity is dying out at a double rate of knots. The religious fruit-baskets won't be able to successfully push their ideology for too much longer. Go to any church and what do you see? People in their 50's and older mostly, and the young who do claim to be part of some mainline church hardly ever actually practice it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Espe View Post
    I guess you are from the right, so I assume you are a global warming denier, so I will try to tackle this issue from a scientifically illiterate point of view.

    People have sex. No contraceptive works 100% of the time. Abortion is a medically safe procedure.

    In the past thousands of young girls and women were butchered in dangerous operations. We decided as a country, long ago, that was no longer acceptable. Republicans attempting to circumvent the SC ruling just shows how desperate they are to cause mass harm to young girls and women. The fact that you are gleefully cheering them on says more about you than anything else.
    Hey don't you realize there is no global warming because God won't let it happen. 30 minutes after he super-glued the stars into the sky he said "thou shalt not warm!", and planet earth being only very young then took God ever so seriously, and has since vowed never ever ever to get any warmer than God commanded.

    So, now that you understand better please no more spreading of lies.
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    You haven't seen nothing yet, we trumpsters will definitely be getting some cool uniforms soon I hope.

  3. #823
    I am Murloc! Noxx79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexw View Post
    Well thankfully religiosity is dying out at a double rate of knots. The religious fruit-baskets won't be able to successfully push their ideology for too much longer. Go to any church and what do you see? People in their 50's and older mostly, and the young who do claim to be part of some mainline church hardly ever actually practice it.



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    Hey don't you realize there is no global warming because God won't let it happen. 30 minutes after he super-glued the stars into the sky he said "thou shalt not warm!", and planet earth being only very young then took God ever so seriously, and has since vowed never ever ever to get any warmer than God commanded.

    So, now that you understand better please no more spreading of lies.
    Now now, if you're going to go that route, get the reasoning right

    The reason why there's no global warning is because after the flood with Noah, got made a rainbow which was evidence of the vow that he would never wipe out humanity again.

    (Yes it's just as ridiculous, and I like your glue idea better)

    and yes, this means that according to standard Jewish/Old Testament lore, whenever you see a rainbow, it's supposed to remind us that God isn't going to kill us all. YAY!

  4. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    'Abortion won't get repealed under Trump'.

    Well hey, it's gonna be poor people in Ohio that pay the price.
    To be fair, that's less of a Trump problem and more due to the Republicans having the House and Senate and can now make decisions unopposed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Something something "all life is sacred!" something something *ignores the fact that the official GOP platform supports the death penalty* something something.

    Because what is hypocrisy?
    So I want to preface this with saying I disagree with the bill -- the bodily autonomy of women should have been preserved -- and capital punishment.
    However, the logic isn't internally inconsistent. A fetus is obviously not the same thing as a convicted felon on death row, especially considering the latter has likely taken lives themselves. It's not like the GOP is saying that the people on death row are innocent but should be killed, the idea is that death is the only suitable punishment for people who commit the most heinous crimes. Which is ironic, because I for one would rather be dead than in prison for my entire life.
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  5. #825
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    To be fair, that's less of a Trump problem and more due to the Republicans having the House and Senate and can now make decisions unopposed.

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    So I want to preface this with saying I disagree with the bill -- the bodily autonomy of women should have been preserved -- and capital punishment.
    However, the logic isn't internally inconsistent. A fetus is obviously not the same thing as a convicted felon on death row, especially considering the latter has likely taken lives themselves. It's not like the GOP is saying that the people on death row are innocent but should be killed, the idea is that death is the only suitable punishment for people who commit the most heinous crimes. Which is ironic, because I for one would rather be dead than in prison for my entire life.
    Except they routinely ignore the very real and high possibility that innocent people HAVE been executed.

  6. #826
    Quote Originally Posted by Espe View Post
    It is beyond ignorant for someone to believe that anyone wants to get a late-term abortion. Just another lie anti-choice zealots tell themselves to justify causing mass harm to young girls and women. Hope you're proud of yourself.
    You see how you just redirect without giving any argument and attack? I implied no such thing. This is not a debate strategy, it is just you failing to read and regurgitating some short statement only meant to annoy. Again, I will ask: Do you believe that abortion up to term should be legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zillor View Post
    Also, we're not really calling it Happy Conceptionday right? Or Happy heartbeatday? Happy brainactivityday?
    Or when people ask how old you are, do you say your birthday + 9 months? What if you were early? +8 months?
    Same for you. Where should the line be drawn? You imply with your post that you support abortion rights up to term.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexw View Post
    Well thankfully religiosity is dying out at a double rate of knots. The religious fruit-baskets won't be able to successfully push their ideology for too much longer. Go to any church and what do you see? People in their 50's and older mostly, and the young who do claim to be part of some mainline church hardly ever actually practice it.



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    I know the whole "demographic inevitability" argument is kind of your thing, but there hasn't been significant movement on the abortion question in decades.

    (Posted before) http://www.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx
    Last edited by Sargerasraider; 2016-12-09 at 05:31 PM.

  7. #827
    Quote Originally Posted by Zillor View Post
    Seeing the words unborn child and baby thrown around. It's a glob of goo, unintelligent, non sentient.
    Take someone's period and add a fap, stick it to flypaper, won't make it a baby.
    This just proves your ignorance with women's health. Her period, really? Ovulation happens ~2 weeks before her period. And if it so happened that there was sperm in her fertile fluids, then yes, it is likely that she her egg will become fertilized.

    Lol, semen and a period. Wow.


    Anyway, to argue your other point, let's talk about that blob of cells.

    A zygote is made as soon as the egg is fertilized. The zygote has DNA provided by the father and the mother and has all of the genetic information to develop into more mature stages. The zygote period lasts about four days. He develops into a blastocyst for some 14 days, and then develops into an embryo. After nine weeks post-conception, she is termed a "fetus". From the first stage to the last stage, there is no part where he “turns human.” They are a unique human being from the point of fertilization.

    What does it mean for you to be "alive"? Science says that to be alive, there is usually certain criteria. Ability to grow and mature, metabolize, respond to stimuli, adapt, and reproduce. A zygote has all these characteristics. Yes, including reproducing. (That's how an identical twin is formed, it asexually reproduces). And if reproduction is a definition of alive, a 3 year old can't reproduce, but that doesn't mean they don't fit the definition, as they mature they will be able to. A little girl has a uterus inside her, but can't use it until she's matured. Does that mean before she can carry a baby she's not really alive?

    "Her Womb, her rights"... So let's continue that... let's say a baby is born. Does an infant have a right to nurse after birth? "Her breast, her rights". Does an infant have the right to have clean diapers, carried, cleaned? It would be abuse if a baby wasn't cared for.

    There are more problems with your arguments but I don't have time to continue arguing. You either go by science or you don't. It's a little funny that the majority pro-abortion people deny science when they're typically the more science-minded folks.
    Last edited by Symphonic; 2016-12-09 at 05:35 PM.
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  8. #828
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    But people DO take responsibility.
    Taking responsibility does include having an abortion.

    Your line of reasoning makes no sense at all.
    If I decided to not help any patient that is partially to blame for their own sickness, I could write off at least 75% of my patients.
    Pregnancy is not an illness. Therefore an abortion is not a "cure" or "treatment" to a pregnancy. It is an unfortunate solution to an unwanted pregnancy. Your comparison is completely invalid. Apples and oranges my friend.

    Becoming pregnant means you have essentially created a life. People should own up to that and take responsibility for it. What happens when you make any other mistake when you're drunk? If you get in a car accident, or say something horrible to your girlfriend/boyfriend, get in a fight, etc... You pay the price. You have to take responsibility. Why should getting pregnant be different? Because we have the power to rid ourselves of a fetus with little to no consequences?

    In taking part in an abortion, you are ending a life. People need to take that very seriously. Not as a "cure" to their pregnancy. It is not just some procedure that you go through to fix a problem. You are ending a human life.
    Last edited by Docturphil; 2016-12-09 at 05:54 PM.

  9. #829
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espe View Post
    I guess you are from the right, so I assume you are a global warming denier, so I will try to tackle this issue from a scientifically illiterate point of view.

    People have sex. No contraceptive works 100% of the time. Abortion is a medically safe procedure.

    In the past thousands of young girls and women were butchered in dangerous operations. We decided as a country, long ago, that was no longer acceptable. Republicans attempting to circumvent the SC ruling just shows how desperate they are to cause mass harm to young girls and women. The fact that you are gleefully cheering them on says more about you than anything else.
    Wrong

    10cha

  10. #830
    Quote Originally Posted by Symphonic View Post
    This just proves your ignorance with women's health. Her period, really? Ovulation happens ~2 weeks before her period. And if it so happened that there was sperm in her fertile fluids, then yes, it is likely that she her egg will become fertilized.

    Lol, semen and a period. Wow.


    Anyway, to argue your other point, let's talk about that blob of cells.

    A zygote is made as soon as the egg is fertilized. The zygote has DNA provided by the father and the mother and has all of the genetic information to develop into more mature stages. The zygote period lasts about four days. He develops into a blastocyst for some 14 days, and then develops into an embryo. After nine weeks post-conception, she is termed a "fetus". From the first stage to the last stage, there is no part where he “turns human.” They are a unique human being from the point of fertilization.

    What does it mean for you to be "alive"? Science says that to be alive, there is usually certain criteria. Ability to grow and mature, metabolize, respond to stimuli, adapt, and reproduce. A zygote has all these characteristics. Yes, including reproducing. (That's how an identical twin is formed, it asexually reproduces). And if reproduction is a definition of alive, a 3 year old can't reproduce, but that doesn't mean they don't fit the definition, as they mature they will be able to. A little girl has a uterus inside her, but can't use it until she's matured. Does that mean before she can carry a baby she's not really alive?

    "Her Womb, her rights"... So let's continue that... let's say a baby is born. Does an infant have a right to nurse after birth? "Her breast, her rights". Does an infant have the right to have clean diapers, carried, cleaned? It would be abuse if a baby wasn't cared for.

    There are more problems with your arguments but I don't have time to continue arguing. You either go by science or you don't. It's a little funny that the majority pro-abortion people deny science when they're typically the more science-minded folks.
    Women that you forced to carry unwanted pregnancies to term who refuse to take care of it after its born are committing child abuse?

    But you are not abusing women by forcing them to carry unwanted pregnancies to term?

    Yeah, no.

    Don't abuse women, and they won't have a child to abuse.

    Seriously. If a woman doesn't want a child, don't force her to have one. She is NOT going to treat it well, I promise.
    Last edited by Total Crica; 2016-12-09 at 05:49 PM.

  11. #831
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Pretty much.

    Then again, when have Republicans ever given a shit about women.
    Indeed. But why do they keep voting for them?? lol

  12. #832
    Quote Originally Posted by HomeHoney View Post
    Women that you forced to carry unwanted pregnancies to term who refuse to take care of it after its born are committing child abuse?

    But you are not abusing women by forcing them to carry unwanted pregnancies to term?

    Yeah, no.

    Don't abuse women, and they won't have a child to abuse.

    Seriously. If a woman doesn't want a child, don't force her to have one. She is NOT going to treat it well, I promise.
    If someone is dead set on not wanting a child, you plan around the fact that our bodies at times become fertile and can become pregnant. That doesn't mean you can kill it because it inconvenienced you. You either make 100% sure you're not going to get pregnant, or you plan to care for a baby (which may include finding adoptive parents). I find it a little disconcerting that a woman would abuse her child just because it was not a planned pregnancy.
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  13. #833
    Quote Originally Posted by Symphonic View Post
    If someone is dead set on not wanting a child, you plan around the fact that our bodies at times become fertile and can become pregnant. That doesn't mean you can kill it because it inconvenienced you. You either make 100% sure you're not going to get pregnant, or you plan to care for a baby (which may include finding adoptive parents). I find it a little disconcerting that a woman would abuse her child just because it was not a planned pregnancy.
    beyond not having sex, there is no 100% guarantee a woman can not get pregnant

    when you stop doing things that are not 100% guaranteed to harm anyone, i will stop having sex

    deal?

    oh, and computers cause harm, so, as long as you are on here posting, i will be having protected sex with my husband and seeking an abortion if i find out that i have become pregnant because i dont want to carry a pregnancy to term

    and yes, people tend to lash out at that which causes them unhappiness when its FORCED on them
    Last edited by Total Crica; 2016-12-09 at 06:07 PM.

  14. #834
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    A disease is a particular abnormal condition, a disorder of a structure or function, that affects part or all of an organism.

    Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.
    You can throw definitions at me all day, but pregnancy is not an illness. Find me one respectable doctor that will categorize a normal pregnancy as an illness or a health problem.

    Also, edited my previous post with further explanations on my view for whatever it's worth.

  15. #835
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    Quote Originally Posted by Symphonic View Post
    If someone is dead set on not wanting a child, you plan around the fact that our bodies at times become fertile and can become pregnant. That doesn't mean you can kill it because it inconvenienced you. You either make 100% sure you're not going to get pregnant, or you plan to care for a baby (which may include finding adoptive parents). I find it a little disconcerting that a woman would abuse her child just because it was not a planned pregnancy.
    Children that are the products of unwanted pregnancies might not be abused, but there's a reasonably high likelihood that they will not get as many resources as children who are the products of wanted pregnancies. By resources I mean food, care, attention, environmental enrichment and guidance.

    There also isn't a way to completely avoid, with 100% certainty, any pregnancy unless you're promoting abstinence - which is an unhealthy alternative, as there are numerous biological benefits associated with regular sex.

    Finally, I think you should consider your system of evaluating human life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    A disease is a particular abnormal condition, a disorder of a structure or function, that affects part or all of an organism.

    Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.
    Pregnancy is not abnormal, or a disorder. It's really messed up that some people are suggesting that it is. I dated a girl who felt this way; needless to say it didn't last.

  16. #836
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    Pregnancy is not abnormal, or a disorder. It's really messed up that some people are suggesting that it is. I dated a girl who felt this way; needless to say it didn't last.
    To be fair, complications can occur as a result of pregnancy. For example, my mom became diabetic during her pregnancy with me and my other siblings. It was actually a pretty serious health risk.

    But you're absolutely right. Categorizing a normal pregnancy as an illness is absolutely repulsive.

  17. #837
    Quote Originally Posted by Calamorallo View Post
    You see how you just redirect without giving any argument and attack? I implied no such thing. This is not a debate strategy, it is just you failing to read and regurgitating some short statement only meant to annoy. Again, I will ask: Do you believe that abortion up to term should be legal?



    Same for you. Where should the line be drawn? You imply with your post that you support abortion rights up to term.



    I know the whole "demographic inevitability" argument is kind of your thing, but there hasn't been significant movement on the abortion question in decades.

    (Posted before) http://www.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx
    You are making some bad assumptions. People may approve or disapprove of abortion but the people who care enough to go out and campaign or be single issue voters on it are virtually all religious. Its the religious fundies who drive the republican anti-abortion agenda, not everyone else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redtower View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    You haven't seen nothing yet, we trumpsters will definitely be getting some cool uniforms soon I hope.

  18. #838
    Deleted
    Well, that is one fucking stupid bill.

  19. #839
    Quote Originally Posted by alexw View Post
    You are making some bad assumptions. People may approve or disapprove of abortion but the people who care enough to go out and campaign or be single issue voters on it are virtually all religious. Its the religious fundies who drive the republican anti-abortion agenda, not everyone else.
    You're going to need some data to back that up. Again, my point stands that views on abortion haven't significantly changed in 40 years.

  20. #840
    Quote Originally Posted by Calamorallo View Post
    You're going to need some data to back that up. Again, my point stands that views on abortion haven't significantly changed in 40 years.
    Because abortion hasn't changed in 40 years, perhaps?

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