LFR's effort-reward model

[tikcol]

You can hold a high rank, and yet still be weak on the field. As well, your title brought you your 840 equipment to bring havoc to the foes whom stand against you, to further yourself and your forces. You don't bring yourself up by slicing down another weak minion.

I mean, most storylines don't work like that. They actually state more than once (repeatedly) how much of a badass you are in the field.

[Deleted]

Don't talk about me like I'm not here please. It's insulting.

I made myself very clear this time.

LFR's effort-reward model is broke.

- - - Updated - - -



"farmed by higher ups"

There shouldn't be any "higher ups"

LFR is not there for loot, its there so people who cant do organized raiding can get a chance to see the raid.

[tikcol]

I would rather play an organized raid with my friends/guildies and be rewarded for our communication skills, understanding of mechanics and skill with our classes, rather than wiping on bosses with strangers until our LFR buff gives us enough of an edge to completely ignore all the mechanics and just burn the boss. Because that's all LFR is.

Just saying.

I can respect that.

Can you understand that other people might not and they still should be rewarded for their time?

- - - Updated - - -

LFR is not there for loot, its there so people who cant do organized raiding can get a chance to see the raid.

Source on that please.

[darklogrus]

LFR's purpose is to prepare you to enter a raid on normal, or prepare you to handle foes in the world. Nothing more.

That's why Mists had the best LFR, If you did those Raids you had an understanding of what was going to happen mechanics wise. So if you had the chance you could step into a Normal and Heroic and actually perform well enough to land you a spot or an invite come next week. While on the subject, I think that it was also the best gear wise, because being in those items and item sets at least output wise made you somewhat viable to bring next time as well. It was for its time a really great way to break the new group of possible raiders in.

Warlords had the worst LFR and worst gear, I've only seen 1 boss in LFR Legion so I can't really say much about the current version.

[Lochton]

"farmed by higher ups"

There shouldn't be any "higher ups"

This is an RPG, there will ALWAYS be higher ups (unless you are one of the ones whom fought to be a higher up).

[Katchii]

LFR gear is weak in comparison to Normal, Heroic and Mythic level gear because it doesn't need to be strong. Higher difficulty level raids require higher ilevel gear because that's how they're tuned. You don't need that to tackle LFR level content.

There's no compelling reason for LFR gear to be any stronger than it is. That said, there's not really a hugely compelling reason for it NOT to be either other than it doesn't need to be and it doesn't make much sense given the progression of raids as it is now.

It's not broken, no need to fix it.

[Ham on Rye]

I completely agree with the OP. LFR's effort-to-reward model is really screwed up.

LFR rewards need to be lowered by about 30 iLevels to coincide with the minimal-to-zero effort involved in running LFR.

Problem solved. You're welcome, OP!

[Deleted]

I can respect that.

Can you understand that other people might not and they still should be rewarded for their time?

- - - Updated - - -



Source on that please.

give me the source where it is said that it is there for people to get loot of equal power of a mythic raid. just stop....

[Lochton]

I mean, most storylines don't work like that. They actually state more than once (repeatedly) how much of a badass you are in the field.

Yes, how much of a badass you are, but guess what, that was BEFORE the Broken Isles was actually turning up for a bigger threat. Basically, you step on the shore to meet an even greater threat.

[Katchii]

I can respect that.

Can you understand that other people might not and they still should be rewarded for their time?

- - - Updated - - -



Source on that please.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...aid-finder-q-a

Question 1

[burzian]

LFR doesn't stand alone. LFR is:

1. A way for folks without the inclination or means to do organized raiding to see all the content in an expansion.
2. A far easier raiding experience that can be useful for gearing alts on the way to doing organized raids.

The way it's currently constructed, you can do LFR and world quests and be ready for every new LFR tier as it opens. This is the system working as it should, because Blizzard's model is still essentially effort = reward but with a considerable safety net that ensures nobody is left completely behind or left feeling weak compared to the challenges they see in their gameplay. If you're the type of person who only wants content you can queue anonymously for, you will be able to gear exclusively through that and be equipped for doing that.

[Lochton]

That's why Mists had the best LFR, If you did those Raids you had an understanding of what was going to happen mechanics wise. So if you had the chance you could step into a Normal and Heroic and actually perform well enough to land you a spot or an invite come next week. While on the subject, I think that it was also the best gear wise, because being in those items and item sets at least output wise made you somewhat viable to bring next time as well. It was for its time a really great way to break the new group of possible raiders in.

Warlords had the worst LFR and worst gear, I've only seen 1 boss in LFR Legion so I can't really say much about the current version.

It was a quite good setup, yes.

[tikcol]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...aid-finder-q-a

Question 1

Where does it say anything about the loot being weak by design?

[Sencha]

LFR gear is already far too good considering you just need to afk in the fire to get it.

[kary]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...aid-finder-q-a

Question 1

Just in case he's lazy @tikcol

Q.Who is Raid Finder for?
A. Raid Finder is primarily intended for players who don’t already raid consistently. These are players who may not have had the opportunity to take part in raid content due to scheduling conflicts, playtime constraints, limited access to other raid-capable players, or a lack of experience with higher-end content. These players may want to experience World of Warcraft’s raid content and storyline without being able to commit to the additional time investment of a raiding guild. The Raid Finder is also a great way to quickly and easily gear up alternate characters without having to worry about raid lockouts.

Q. What size raid group will the Raid Finder support an

[Keiyra]

But would you be against LFR getting a boost on the rewards?

Not at all, as long as there was an equal increase in the difficulty of completing said content. Rewards and difficulty/effort have to go hand in hand - or the whole game goes out of balance.

As it stand right now, LFR adequately rewards based on its level of difficulty/effort.(if not more than adequately). And when I say difficulty/effort, that includes the fact that it requires ZERO effort compared to forming a guild or even manually pugging a raid, as well as requiring little to no coordination amongst the members.

You want better gear from LFR? Then they gotta make it harder.

[zeropeorth]

It's not about what I want. I believe that the game would be better off by giving that option to players yes. If they want to play it as a "mindless button clicking with no skill involved" game,

then that option should be available.

I also believe that LFR isn't anything like that.

The rewards could come from other more involved activities that have bonuses that affect things for smaller group/solo/profession content. This is what they used to have with justice/valor in a minor way; more robust system similar to this was in launch style of rift, where the world content could eventually reward great gear with time/effort if you weren't a raider.

I'm not sure why there is a force to do the hardest content and making their gear vastly above anything else you can do. The people who want something like mythic, will have the drive for it and unique armor and a slight stat boost should be enough bonus reward outside of unique mounts and achievements because part of the enjoyment of high end raiding is the experience and adrenaline/endorphins from the failures and successes from the challenges.

I think it is bad game design personally, but you'll have some here defend it to death. On a large game like wow with players of different intent and desires, progression paths for subsets seems like a reasonable thing to provide. Even if we ended up with some type of 'mod slot' on gear similar to swtor, which you could do things and earn bonuses like pet revives faster or something for pet battlers, crafting faster for crafters, and stuff like the class hall sets for non raiders but with the ability to get the gear to star levels say 10% below the current max raid level over the course of a month or two through resources you earn by being active in the game and those activities; maybe give bonus rewards for actively grouping with others as I believe both rift and swtor had modifiers to increase loot drops for being groups with others.

[tikcol]

LFR gear is already far too good considering you just need to afk in the fire to get it.

That joke is becoming quite dull. Bring a good one next time and we can laugh together. I mean it.

[Tatzi]

I can respect that.

Can you understand that other people might not and they still should be rewarded for their time?

Honestly, I think you are rewarded fairly for that time.

Not only do you get extra gold for completing it, you also have a chance to get a little chest/extra AP (depending on your role/time of day), a chance for a legendary and a chance to titanforge the gear you can get. It is only 15 ilevels less and, especially in the current state of the game, I'd take a lower ilevel piece for the proper stats. Bosses here get easier every wipe, so the worst case scenario is you spend an extra 30 mins of your time.

Whereas some guilds have hundreds of wipes on one boss in Mythic raiding. Sometimes even Heroic raiding.

I think that's more than enough for just someone's time, requiring the most minimum of effort (especially as the raids go on).

[tikcol]

Honestly, I think you are rewarded fairly for that time.

Not only do you get extra gold for completing it, you also have a chance to get a little chest/extra AP (depending on your role/time of day), a chance for a legendary and a chance to titanforge the gear you can get. It is only 15 ilevels less and, especially in the current state of the game, I'd take a lower ilevel piece for the proper stats. Bosses here get easier every wipe, so the worst case scenario is you spend an extra 30 mins of your time.

Whereas some guilds have hundreds of wipes on one boss in Mythic raiding. Sometimes even Heroic raiding.

I think that's more than enough for just someone's time, requiring the most minimum of effort (especially as the raids go on).

Considering you are able to partake in organized raiding, could you understand that giving better rewards to players that can't isn't actually a bad idea?

- - - Updated - - -

Not at all, as long as there was an equal increase in the difficulty of completing said content. Rewards and difficulty/effort have to go hand in hand - or the whole game goes out of balance.

As it stand right now, LFR adequately rewards based on its level of difficulty/effort.(if not more than adequately). And when I say difficulty/effort, that includes the fact that it requires ZERO effort compared to forming a guild or even manually pugging a raid, as well as requiring little to no coordination amongst the members.

You want better gear from LFR? Then they gotta make it harder.

But we LFR raiders already consider it hard enough.

I speak for a few people I spoke about this for a week and we all agree.