Secret CIA assessment says Russia was trying to help Trump

[Wells]

Yes, obviously inciting american democratic nationalism will benefit russia, obviously russia has so much to gain from a strong and empowered nationalist society, you know, like the one that actually stood up to russia in the cold war.

Western strength doesn't come from nationalism, it comes from international unity. A rise in nationalism means less global intracommitment and a weaker NATO.

Nationalism doesn't make you strong, it makes you weak.

[mickybrighteyes]

It was in fact, not against any rules at State to use a private email server.

According to:
12 FAM 531 GENERAL
(CTS-238; 06-25-2015)
(Uniform State, USAID, OPIC, TDP)

a. Store classified material only in a manner that conforms to the provisions of this section.

b. Whenever classified material is not under the personal control and observation of an authorized person, store it in an approved locked container under the conditions cited in this section. Domestically, for the Department, contact the Office of Information Security (DS/SI/IS) regarding open storage.

c. You must use, hold, process, or store classified material in data and word processing systems, to include magnetic storage media, only under conditions that will prevent unauthorized persons from gaining access. The Office of Cybersecurity (DS/SI/CS) establishes requirements for the protection of classified information resident on automated information systems (AIS).

d. Responsibility for the secure storage of classified material in message distribution lockers (MDLs) rests with appropriate personnel from the assigned office with the lockers. Employees must treat the combinations to MDLs the same as the combinations to other security containers that store classified material. Employees must classify combinations to MDLs no lower than the highest level of classified material authorized for storage in the MDL. If employees find an MDL that is unsecured, they must consider the combination to be compromised, whether the MDL is empty or not.

e. The Department has developed and approved revised security standards for the storage of classified material at facilities abroad. These standards were coordinated with the Overseas Security Policy Board (OSPB) and apply to all personnel and facilities under chief of mission (COM) authority. (See 12 FAM 531.1 and 12 FAM 531.2.)

f. At Foreign Service posts, separate guidelines protect material relating to intelligence sources and methods.

g. Do not store classified material at a facility outside the chancery, consulate, etc., merely for convenience. To store classified material, a post must demonstrate to the regional security officer (RSO) a legitimate need to have material at a given location and provide a justification for the level of classified material to be stored.

h. Separately located Voice of America (VOA) stations must not store classified information. Make arrangements for staff to store and read the information at embassies and consulates. You may take the material from the storage site to the VOA facility during working hours, but you must either return the material at close of business or destroy it with an approved device (see 12 FAM 539.5). You may continue to store Sensitive But Unclassified (SBU) material at VOA facilities.

i. 12 FAM 570 covers storage requirements for authorized consultants and contractors working with classified information.


To clarify, the bolded portion of G is the rub. Same for Powell who i really don't know much about since that was roughly a decade ago?

[Sama-81]

Both the CIA and the EU then have a duty to dispose of / eliminate Trump if this is the case...

And why is that, exactly? If he was straight out in cahoots with the russians, then certainly, you have something akin to an argument. Which isn't straight out impossible I suppose, it is Trump we're talking about after all, isn't it - but such an accusation is still far more likely to simply be an overly desperate move by people that simply can not accept that they (sadly, I might add) lost the election, than anything containing actual substance. It would certainly require solid evidence of his involvement, at any rate.

If, on the other hand, such a scenario took place but Trump himself wasn't personally involved, ie one where the russians aided his campaign, then the problem obviously doesn't lie with him at all but solely with the russians being able to do what they did. Even a dimwit can see that disqualifying a candidate under such circumstances, ie him being unwillingly/unknowingly "helped" to win, would be utter foolishness - as, for instance, a foreign power could then simply aid the party they didn't want to win, and thereby have an even greater effect on an election. No, this whole thing isn't about Trump (in lieu of very damning evidence at least), but about how to stop the russians and whoever else from having any noticable impact on forthcoming elections.

[Felaris Stormrage]

Tell me again how a Pulitzer prize winning newspaper is not a trustworthy source?

Oh, right, because they don't fit your alt-right narrative.

That's a new one. I don't even know where you begin to gather the notion that I am alt-right. They won the Pulitzer for police coverage, which I admit was superb. However, this and many other news sites which have won various awards are still guilty of sensationalism. And, this story nonetheless is guilty of it.

[Sama-81]

Western strength doesn't come from nationalism, it comes from international unity. A rise in nationalism means less global intracommitment and a weaker NATO.

Nationalism doesn't make you strong, it makes you weak.

Then we, at least, have little to fear from countries like Russia or China, as they have to be weak indeed considering their level of nationalism.

[Trump]

The level of hysteria and conspiracy in this thread is a riot. All of the usual suspects spouting their paranoid rhetoric and complete lack of comprehension.

If you actually think that Russia had ANY influence whatsoever on the actual election - and that influence contributed to Trump winning - I feel completely sorry for you. It is beyond /facepalm - it is totally fucking pathetic.

[Steve French]

Nowhere does that say she wants to go to war with Russia, and if you think that you're delusional. In fact it says "United States will treat cyber attacks just like any other attack", so like any attack, the US will have a proportionate response, like Obama has done.

But of course, leaping to Russia's defense is a top priority for Trumpsters because of his pro-Russia, anti-NATO policies, and being Russia's useful idiot needs to be defended.

This is a copy of Trump's most famous trick: projecting. He says he grabs women by the pussy, so when attacked on this he projects and claims no one has more respect for women. He wants to bomb the shit out of ISIS in the Middle East, kill their families, and water board them not because of intelligence but because they deserve it, he's the biggest war hawk, so he projects, Hillary is the biggest war hawk.

Seems to be a disturbing lack of reading ability with you people, that's unfortunate. Oh well, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, y'know?
I don't care about or support russia, where did you get that BS from? Same with trump, I didn't vote for nor do I support trump, I didn't realize pointing out hypocrisy and bullshit= trump voter. Until you learn to read you're a waste of my time, have a great night fella.

[Kaleredar]

Trump means a weaker America.


A weaker America means a stronger Russia.


Simple math. I don't know if Trump was in on it or is just stupid and easily manipulated, but this isn't rocket science.

Russia was right to be against Hillary.

No one has the US' interests more at heart than Russia?

Is that what you just said?

She would have destabilized the US by encouraging mass illegal migration. Glad we dodged that bullet.

Just like Obama did right?


I swear to god, the republicans have done a great job at making an almost complete non-issue into their ONLY talking point and then convincing people it's going to destroy the US.


I guess politicians with nothing else to hock can still rely on scapegoating and fear mongering immigrants to land themselves in office.

Just like they did with the Irish. And the Italians. And the Chinese. And the Japanese.


I swear to god, do people no longer take history classes?

[Shadowmelded]

And to think, Comey opposed releasing this information during the election.

[Wells]

Then we, at least, have little to fear from countries like Russia or China, as they have to be weak indeed considering their level of nationalism.

Yes, maybe you've noticed what nationalism has done for the Russian economy?

[Steve French]

You do realize that Obama has had the exact same policy the entire time, right?

Don't think we've gone to war with Russia yet.

But don't let me dissuade you from your insane Clinton conspiracies.

Funny how instead of actually answering my question, which was quite simple, you instead try and sum up my statement with "Clinton conspiracies". You have nothing but dishonest arguments, insults, and exaggerations. I had a direct quote from clinton that talked about her emails being hacked and her saying she would meet cyber attacks like that with "serious political, economic and military responses", and somehow mentioning that could possibly mean war with russia or china = conspiracy theory? You, like many people posting on MMO these days are a waste of time.

[Kaleredar]

The level of hysteria and conspiracy in this thread is a riot. All of the usual suspects spouting their paranoid rhetoric and complete lack of comprehension.

If you actually think that Russia had ANY influence whatsoever on the actual election - and that influence contributed to Trump winning - I feel completely sorry for you. It is beyond /facepalm - it is totally fucking pathetic.

So you're saying "ignore the CIA, trust in New York billionaire with no government experience!"

[Sama-81]

Yes, maybe you've noticed what nationalism has done for the Russian economy?

And what has it, pray tell, done for the chinese economy?

[Wells]

And what has it, pray tell, done for the chinese economy?

A) Chinese nationalism isn't really the nationalism we talk about with Russia and the West
B) Their economy is a house of cards. As soon as they can't find markets to sell to they'll fall apart.

Point remains, the West's strength comes from its unity, not nationalism. Breaking up the Western relationships that have been in place for generations would significantly increase Russia's relative power, so its no wonder Russia is backing all these isolationist movements.

[KrazyK923]

Funny how instead of actually answering my question, which was quite simple, you instead try and sum up my statement with "Clinton conspiracies". You have nothing but dishonest arguments, insults, and exaggerations. I had a direct quote from clinton that talked about her emails being hacked and her saying she would meet cyber attacks like that with "serious political, economic and military responses", and somehow mentioning that could possibly mean war with russia or china = conspiracy theory? You, like many people posting on MMO these days are a waste of time.

So posting about how Obama has literally the same policy and we haven't gone to war with Russia yet is dishonest?

Maybe stop pretending Clinton is the Illuminati Hitler Devil and you wont' come across like such an insane person.

[vetinari]

A) Chinese nationalism isn't really the nationalism we talk about with Russia and the West
B) Their economy is a house of cards. As soon as they can't find markets to sell to they'll fall apart.

Point remains, the West's strength comes from its unity, not nationalism. Breaking up the Western relationships that have been in place for generations would significantly increase Russia's relative power, so its no wonder Russia is backing all these isolationist movements.

The west's strength doesn't come from its unity, it comes from having the industrial revolution first.

[Kaleredar]

...the industrial revolution, which brought on a massive increase of trade, communication, and travel between countries?

[Reivur]

But they didn't "hack" the Trump campaign nor the RNC. There was a reason for that. The reason being they wanted Trump to win. That doesn't give you a pause? That doesn't make to stop and think why they're favoring him? Is there a quid pro quo?

I think he's trolling personally (or at least I hope he is) but I'm not really fond of your conclusion either. You can't control who endorses you, only who you endorse. People going out and 'speaking for your name' or claiming (or even!) supporting you does not mean that its what you represent or intend. This is a sort of hypocrisy you see in many subjects be it Trump, Different News Sites, or even Black Lives Matters.

If the KKK endorses Trump, that should not give you pause.
If Trump endorses the KKK, that should probably give you whiplash.

The same is true of Russia 'hacks', the same is true of whether or not BLM were to endorse the "cops fry 'em like bacon chant" instead of claiming that isn't a representation of them.

And although KrazyK is getting tired of it being reminded that Hillary was a terrible candidate, it does have to be said even if it isn't original material. Without concrete proof and with her campaign taking zero responsibility for their failures you cannot gauge how much influence this event did or didn't have; meanwhile we know the 'clownshow' was failing miserably before these claims.

Besides, you guys don't get any pause out of the content of the emails & leaks never being denied but instead their rebuttals have always been focused on the origins of how they got out? The best analogy I can think of is if your 'lover' cheats on you and you bump into proof of it via a message log and they complain that you're an awful person for invading their privacy rather than any sort of denial of the cheating. Its a crude deflection.

[Wells]

The west's strength doesn't come from its unity, it comes from having the industrial revolution first.

Not really relevant when we're looking at the West's strength vs China or Russia as they're industrialized and the Europe wiped out most of its own industry in the 1900s.

[Sama-81]

A) Chinese nationalism isn't really the nationalism we talk about with Russia and the West
B) Their economy is a house of cards. As soon as they can't find markets to sell to they'll fall apart.

Point remains, the West's strength comes from its unity, not nationalism. Breaking up the Western relationships that have been in place for generations would significantly increase Russia's relative power, so its no wonder Russia is backing all these isolationist movements.

A) If that is the case, then Russia is equally bad to compare with the west in terms of nationalism (at the very least), they are rather imperialist than anything else. Their place on the world stage is what is driving them, domestic issues is of far lower importance.
B) Their economy has certainly such elements to it, no question - it has still been objectively good for a long time, just not as ridiculously so as they have pretended. The reason that they will soon have harsher times ahead of them is more of the "don't embellish the numbers too much" type, than anything akin to "nationalism is bad for the economy".

Either way, nationalism can of course be very bad, when you have too much of it. No argument there. It is actually very much akin to, for example, socialism in that manner - some of it is almost universally good, too much is almost universally bad. Well, to be fair, scratch the "almost" in the last sentence. Claiming that either one is bad in and of itself, no matter the extent, would obviously be straight out ridiculous.