LFR's effort-reward model

[Lochton]

Your argument is that the game rewards harder content, Im merely saying the game doesn't trully reward harder content, nor that the gear that is being given out to harder content is better then these 10sec WQ's. Lower tiered MYthics rarely reward better then a generic Wq, LFR rewards aren't better then those same WQ. In fact LFR gear itself is in a strange place,

Should LFR gear be Mythic EN level, no. Should LFR gear be in a better place then where it currently sits, yes.

I don't think LFR gear should have a need to be stronger since procs can apply that. LFR is meant to be intro-level gear, as in, gear strong enough to send you in to normal, which it is - just like WQ's.

[Sephurik]

This thread has to be bogus, I mean the OP is arguing for equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity. Ostensibly, everyone pays the same subscription to play and since that is our starting point, effort and skill should be the only things that matter when determining reward. We already have a huge breadth of content and difficulties, so much so that you could make an argument that this many different difficulties and reward tiers are starting to harm the overall integrity of the core gameplay elements.

[Deleted]

The lack of organisation as said provides a different challenge, due to lack of player control over trying to dictate some minimum amount of experience or overgearing.
So that I feel provides at least an argument as to why it should provide gear following a similar model to higher formats, as in trinkets and tier but just offering perhaps a lower item level.

I don't think it should offer the best available, but it should not be attractive to organised raiders either.
Blizzard themselves said it should only be attractive to organised raiders when they were not able to commit.
But the lack of a loot lockout on it means that isn't the case.
It should only be for those who can't commit for whatever reason, not being an additional option for those that can.

[Lochton]

This thread has to be bogus, I mean the OP is arguing for equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity. Ostensibly, everyone pays the same subscription to play and since that is our starting point, effort and skill should be the only things that matter when determining reward. We already have a huge breadth of content and difficulties, so much so that you could make an argument that this many different difficulties and reward tiers are starting to harm the overall integrity of the core gameplay elements.

Not sure. The same OP argues that social interaction shouldn't be needed, as well as other things.

[kary]

This thread has to be bogus, I mean the OP is arguing for equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity. Ostensibly, everyone pays the same subscription to play and since that is our starting point, effort and skill should be the only things that matter when determining reward. We already have a huge breadth of content and difficulties, so much so that you could make an argument that this many different difficulties and reward tiers are starting to harm the overall integrity of the core gameplay elements.

I still think that there should be (more) normal+ events/quests, as well as mythic only events.
The game should be "accessible" but not everything should be available at easy mode.

[Lochton]

I still think that there should be (more) normal+ events/quests, as well as mythic only events.
The game should be "accessible" but not everything should be available at easy mode.

Hmm, would like quests of class and professions not to go higher than heroic raid, though would love to see some wanted quests, etc for other content.

[Bartolo]

Only healers should get better rewards as they are the only ones challenged (by others mistakes) in LFR

[NatePsy]

Nah, Normal is pretty easy, seriously try it sometime. LFR is fine and this is coming from somebody that wanted to push for better LFR loot in Warlords. They've given back the trinkets, tier sets and art assets. That's a win enough.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I do it only for mog gear (and I'm done on my DK, thank the fuck), pretty much like the abhorrend shit show that is PvP. That fucking world quests reward 845 gear is a joke though, any kind of group content should at least reward the same level, especially with the low chance of actually getting anything for your time investment..

[HeiAggra]

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The current LFR effort-reward model isn't fair.

I've an avid LFR enthusiast, it's true. I still objectively say that the current reward model isn't good enough. LFR's gear extremely low in item level shouldn't be allowed anymore.

Today we have a fairy flexible progression path. Normal -> Heroic -> Mythic.

LFR stands alone as a new form of raiding. It's very unpredictable, your group isn't organized and some would say even challenging.

The thought immediately comes to mind. Why is LFR's gear so weak in comparison? Organized raiding isn't what most players want, but neither is Mythic+.

Mythic+ is where they are funneling everyone that doesn't want to raid.

Why?

The answer is simple. We're forced to do it if we want good shot at the best gear available.

Now we go back to the effort-reward model Blizzard has put in place for the LFR loot. How can they justify LFR's loot being so weak in comparison to Mythic?

I don't want to partake in organized raiding, let's even forget mythic raiding, so why is me having great gear a problem for mythic raiders? The answer is beyond obvious. It isn't.

LFR gear should be on-par with the top gear from organized raiding. This would close the gap between the so called "hardcore players" and the casual players that just want their character to feel powerful on a MMORPG where interacting with others is a required

Let's close the gap and stop interacting with each other based on our ilevel.

No! Want gear do normal, HC or Mythic now you even have great gear in M+ dungeons! LFR is for turists.

[Armourboy]

I do LFR a bunch and I think its fine. You have the chance for it to scale up and be better and even a chance at Legendaries. They have added the Tier sets back in as well as far as I know ( unless that changed again), so I'm not entirely sure what more anyone can ask for, which may be why I haven't really seen that many people asking for it to offer more.

The only thing I would like to see is that the balance of Power drops can be obtained from there, but that's mainly because the guild I run with doesn't do normal anymore and I don't have a ton of desire to pug it.

[Nezia]

Why would you need said gear if you don't intent to progress in the higher difficults the game offers? Only so that you can kill mobs better in WQ?

They have said it time and time again, LFR is only there so that you can see how the raid looks, how the bosses look, it's like a tour mode. Gear rewards are there only so that people have a reason to keep coming back so we are not stuck with 2h+ queues.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Why would you need said gear if you don't intent to progress in the higher difficults the game offers? Only so that you can kill mobs better in WQ?

They have said it time and time again, LFR is only there so that you can see how the raid looks, how the bosses look, it's like a tour mode. Gear rewards are there only so that people have a reason to keep coming back so we are not stuck with 2h+ queues.

By that logic Mythic doesn't need gear either, because they already have what it should take and there is nothing to go to afterwards. One of the legitmate reasons for gear is on PvP servers where you don't want to be rofl stomped by everyone with a guild that runs 1.5h alt raids weekly.

[Deleted]

They expanded the content difficulities both right and left: Mythic is harder than it has ever been to raid these days, and the step from heroic to mythic is much larger than normal to heroic. This caters to the hardcore raider crowd. Plus, we have mythic+ dungeons that I actually feel reward loot on the low side for the difficulty if you are going to beat the timer for multiple chests. You are pretty much hoping for war/titanforged, or doing your 10+ for the weekly chest and 880 gear.

They also expanded to the left where normal raids are now old LFR difficulty, and LFR is well.....just turn up and collect your loot. I actually avoid doing any mechanics in LFR, including ursocs charge, and just dps. The boss still dies and I still get loot to hand out to others in the raid. I really just go for the augment runes, a little gold, and to hopefully help some blue geared people out.

I do not think the loot quality of LFR should increase unless the difficulty increases because at the moment it is simply giving out free loot for standing there and hitting target dummies.

I like the range of content offered in this expansion, I just wish I didn't feel like "im missing out" by not doing all of it each week (yes, I realise that is a personal thing, not a game thing).

[darklogrus]

I don't think LFR gear should have a need to be stronger since procs can apply that. LFR is meant to be intro-level gear, as in, gear strong enough to send you in to normal, which it is - just like WQ's.

Except you basically out gear LFR before you even step foot into it.

I still think that there should be (more) normal+ events/quests, as well as mythic only events.
The game should be "accessible" but not everything should be available at easy mode.

We've already have had a lot of quests continue to resend you into a Mythic, Artifact sends us into there, Order Hall sends us in there, atunement has sent us back into there. 7.1.5 will probably have quests that remind us that theres something called mythic dungeons...

[Spirthealer]

865 posts....the smell of troll is strong in you.

60 posts, I smell a troll calling out people for no facts just wanting to cry.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

I partake in LFR weekly for the last couple of years and I can't understand where the rest of the players got the idea that LFR is easy.

Most of the time I enter I see people with food, potting and using flasks. We immediately try to organize to the best of our ability and complete the challenges ahead of us. We still wipe a lot. Usually when a player goes afk then it's a instant wipe, how did you even get the idea that 1/3 of the raid can afk ?

It's just not true.

LFR is a fucking joke, anyone who has even mediocre ability at the game can easily clear it. The fact that groups even wipe in LFR goes to show the extremely poor quality of players that are present in LFR. If "the best of your ability" is wiping 3 times on LFR Guarm, then your ability is downright awful and the problem is clearly not your gear.

[Deleted]

You can literally join an LFR right now, /follow someone all the way through and only break follow to loot bosses and noone will tell you anything.... if you try going in most self respecting Emerald Nightmare pugs under 230k dps=kick and often also trash slacking=kick...compare those 2 and tell me why you should get more rewards in lfr.

[Armourboy]

LFR is a fucking joke, anyone who has even mediocre ability at the game can easily clear it. The fact that groups even wipe in LFR goes to show the extremely poor quality of players that are present in LFR. If "the best of your ability" is wiping 3 times on LFR Guarm, then your ability is downright awful and the problem is clearly not your gear.

Eh most of it I've seen this expansion at least is just due to people not knowing what to do. Once they understand the fight it's usually pretty smooth. Guarm is a good example, people usually want to get out of breath not in it. Once most of the groups understand to stand in it, its done and over.

[tikcol]

You can literally join an LFR right now, /follow someone all the way through and only break follow to loot bosses and noone will tell you anything.... if you try going in most self respecting Emerald Nightmare pugs under 230k dps=kick and often also trash slacking=kick...compare those 2 and tell me why you should get more rewards in lfr.

You can do the same in mythic, that doesn't mean anything and you know it.