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  1. #81
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    Mages are on One the few classes that still takes skill. And don't you dare mention pruning more by making ice block a talent, its probably one of the most balanced spells (and of of the most iconic for mages) out there.
    Melee right now have to many gap closers and pump out more damage than any other caster, they just go in press their cds and hope for a kill, their damage is so high atm that a healer can spam heal a target and he/she still dies.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Iettlopp View Post
    Mages are on One the few classes that still takes skill. And don't you dare mention pruning more by making ice block a talent, its probably one of the most balanced spells (and of of the most iconic for mages) out there.
    Melee right now have to many gap closers and pump out more damage than any other caster, they just go in press their cds and hope for a kill, their damage is so high atm that a healer can spam heal a target and he/she still dies.
    Oh I get it, its satire!

  3. #83
    Deleted
    You are delusional if you think mages are OP and that melees are not doing way to much damage and they have all the gap closers they need for it. You losing a 1v1 against a frost mage is not a Good reason to start this post.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Iettlopp View Post
    You are delusional if you think mages are OP and that melees are not doing way to much damage and they have all the gap closers they need for it. You losing a 1v1 against a frost mage is not a Good reason to start this post.
    More satire! Man you're clever!

  5. #85
    I would just like to say 2 words, wizard cleave. Still triggers me

  6. #86
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
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    As a melee player for 10 years gone mage, current Legion meta is probably the most infuriating thing I have experienced. The amount of flawless play you have to do to even set up damage against a semi-decent melee player is staggering.

    Arcane pretty much has bar none the most mobility in the game and even that is not much of a boon against most classes. I think the main issue is that Blizzard seems to want to funnel ranged classes into 2+ second casts in order to do damage like back in the day, but the issue being is that melee mobility isn't like back in the day so most of the time you get trucked pretty hard without being able to set up damage.



    Something of note with this video is one of the best mages against a random BG monk, and he has to play close to perfect yet the monk made many mistakes and could still keep trucking.


    I am all for being a very glassy type of DPS class, hell it's why I wanted to play mage.. but right now we're glasscannons without being able to do the actual cannon part if we get focused, along with the crazy uptime that melee has.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    As a melee player for 10 years gone mage, current Legion meta is probably the most infuriating thing I have experienced. The amount of flawless play you have to do to even set up damage against a semi-decent melee player is staggering.

    Arcane pretty much has bar none the most mobility in the game and even that is not much of a boon against most classes. I think the main issue is that Blizzard seems to want to funnel ranged classes into 2+ second casts in order to do damage like back in the day, but the issue being is that melee mobility isn't like back in the day so most of the time you get trucked pretty hard without being able to set up damage.

    Something of note with this video is one of the best mages against a random BG monk, and he has to play close to perfect yet the monk made many mistakes and could still keep trucking.


    I am all for being a very glassy type of DPS class, hell it's why I wanted to play mage.. but right now we're glasscannons without being able to do the actual cannon part if we get focused, along with the crazy uptime that melee has.
    I agree with a lot here. I'm fine with the logic that a melee is going to do a lot of damage when he catches up to the ranged. The problem is that not all ranged are insanely mobile. I play a warlock, getting away just doesn't happen, even more so when everyone has slows that are automatically applied and we don't. We have Unending Resolve and Dark Pact to migitate some damage, but it really isn't enough, inbetween having your casts prevented (Paralysis, Spell Reflect, AMS etc), moving through me as well as kicks

    Warlocks seem to do fine in RBGs where you have a team to back you up, but when you're playing bgs alone - which I do - it's just... I don't even know. Think I'll just have to play a melee character for my solo bg fun. Last night, I zone in and I see the enemy team has 1 healer and nine fucking melee. Who cares about overall damage when you're at 6 or 7 deaths? I sure don't.

    This disussion though, I don't know, we all have different scenarios, stories and backgrounds and class bias. I understand that if you're a frost DK fighting in 2s vs a mage and balance druid, it probably won't be tremendously enjoyable, but as a warlock fighting vs the melee train, it just doesn't feel like you can outplay them, when you can hardly play at all
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaerys
    Gaze upon the field in which I grow my fucks, and see that it is barren.

  8. #88
    The Lightbringer
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    Let's see. I play Lock, both Destro and Affli in casual PvP. I usually do random battlegrounds and PvP world Quests. It is almost sure i suck at pvp, but doing this content "MOSTLY" I encounter players with the same skill as mine, so, plz no git gud shizz.

    My experience with melee in Legion: 1) DH almost impossible to die. Heals back to full health even when at 1%hp, CONTINUOUSLY. Ranged instant attack that takes a quarter (or more if crit) of my hp while i start casting something (and usually leaves a dot). A fel rush and 2x gcd's later i am dead.
    2) Warriors charge and have the gcd ready for a next attack when they reach me. Stunned, silenced, executed. must learn to death coil middle charge, i guess.
    3) Enhancement shamans: They press one button and deal like 10 sources of dmg : 25% hp left before i lift my finger off a button. They can also start with shocks from range.
    4) DK grip or that freeze cloud the frost ones have (cba to check the ability name, sozz). Circle around you while you try move away. Only of precast gateway or portal you can dodge them.
    5) Rogue Stunlock. Need say more?
    6) WW monk:If i fail to move from the fists=10% hp. Dead 2-3 seconds later despite using defensives. They roll. Fast.
    7) Druids: Here it's somewhat manageable. Guardians are a tie with their self healing and ferals will die some seconds after i do because Affli dots. As destro, they will not.
    8) Pallies. Mostly stunned and globaled by them. If i manage to root/slow, just a blessing/charger, back to me.

    AGAIN: I suck at pvp in general and play casually in non-rated content. I don't think i generally meet always 2k+ rating guys around tho. I manage to get a kill here and there and that's it. I do far better against ANY ranged, but usually am dead in 3-4 seconds against melee. I am usually left with the feeling i couldn't react against melee. I know it's mostly my fault when i lose from ranged. I always feel i play an unfair game with melee tho.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Soisoisoi View Post
    The problem is, the "arms race" of mobility is basically Melee vs Mages/Hunters. If we break it down, it's quite simple:

    • Melee need to be in melee range to do any damage.
    • Ranged can deal damage anywhere sub-40y (more in some cases).
    • Melee damage is (supposedly; hello 1m+ Glacial Spikes) higher to make up for the lower up-time.
    • Ranged obviously want, and have tools, to get away from melee
    • ... Not all ranged got those tools, some got too many. RIP Spriests/Locks.


    OTOH, people on this forum also seem to forget it's balanced more so around 3v3 and do not seem to account for their team-mates when they go "Warriors have 50x Charges () and I can't get them off me!" - Because that's where the other 2 friends come in. That, and roots. They are basically another full CC on a melee that do nothing (outside of positioning) to ranged.
    This was an informative and intelligent post that inspired me to think about the issue in a rational way. As someone who doesn't PvP much, thanks for posting this! I feel like I've learned something about the state of PvP. The comment immediately following, however, was not up to this high standard

  10. #90
    Havoc is decent in PvP as melee.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Iettlopp View Post
    don't you dare mention pruning more by making ice block a talent, its probably one of the most balanced spells (and of of the most iconic for mages) out there.
    Remember Demonic Circle? I wouldn't put my trust on Blizzard if I were you lmao

  12. #92
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    I don't feel bad for Warlocks. They're incredibility tanky for the lack of mobility they have.

    Mages are actually in the worst spot they've ever been in the history of the game. Hybrids in general are just too strong where playing something like a Mage or a Rogue is irrelevant. This is the first season since forever where both Mage and Rogue aren't good.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Mages are actually in the worst spot they've ever been in the history of the game

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I don't feel bad for Warlocks. They're incredibility tanky for the lack of mobility they have.

    Mages are actually in the worst spot they've ever been in the history of the game. Hybrids in general are just too strong where playing something like a Mage or a Rogue is irrelevant. This is the first season since forever where both Mage and Rogue aren't good.
    Still best casters for pvp because of the amount of mobility they have, they are just boring atm (same with lock all speccs)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mythra View Post
    Remember Demonic Circle? I wouldn't put my trust on Blizzard if I were you lmao
    maybe they will realise that they are dumb and revert it, same with almost every pvp talent for example WW monks have a talent to get brew for 20% dmg reduction , thats neat and all but it was a spell that was baseline before legion....... and almost every pvp talent is a passive :/

  15. #95
    High rated frost mages in arena must be some kind of gods. When there are 2 melee on you facerolling their keyboard, you can't do shit with a frost mage, except spam some instants that do little damage. If frost mage is the best ranged class against melee then other ranged classes must have it really bad.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by deepr View Post
    High rated frost mages in arena must be some kind of gods. When there are 2 melee on you facerolling their keyboard, you can't do shit with a frost mage, except spam some instants that do little damage. If frost mage is the best ranged class against melee then other ranged classes must have it really bad.
    Now Imagine you're a caster without snares, roots, blink, inmune to stuns for 12s every 1min that can't cast while moving.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    Coming from someone that has played a long time on every class, played at relatively high rating in arena and has the bloodthirsty; I think that melee are much easier to play at a fundamental level but at a high-end there's not much difference either way, there really isn't. Some even have it harder, rogues come to mind, sub in particular has a history of having one of the higher skill caps out of all the classes.

    With that being said, it's more about being a good player than being good at your class, if you can master one class you can master all of them given the time.
    Yeah too bad rogues are garbage right now and just get globaled in a .5 second drd stun from a ret or a ww or a warrior or a death knight or a enhance. BUT DON'T WORRY MELEE ISNT OP

  18. #98
    Deleted
    Anyone who complains about melee in 3s hasnt played against balance/frost mage as melee.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by nairobi13 View Post
    Anyone who complains about melee in 3s hasnt played against balance/frost mage as melee.
    It takes time to build their nukes (specially when they're being trained by 2 melees) and setup to actually make them count plus they're really predictable, you should be fine as long as you don't LoS your healer when the damage is about to come and use your cds only when your healer is struggling to keep you up or hug the wall like there's no tomorrow (hard to vs frost mages but still doable).

    P.S: Shit happens if you want to train a burst class 24/7, dive in, force some cds and play defensive until your cds are back up.

  20. #100
    The problem is not that Melee are overpowered or that Range are underpowered.

    Melee does not have to do much now to stay on their target. They have been stripped of all the tools that helped them stay on their target. These lost "tools" have just been baked in with other abilities so the Melee classes just have to spam a couple buttons now. Melee has also lost the ability for the most part to deal with other melee classes beating their teammates to a pulp.

    In similar fashion, Ranged are frusterated because they have lost tools used to kite Melee classes or CC them off teammates. Mages having double blink is stupid I agree but they lose stun break and 1 Ice block. So it is a very mongloid way to play which is what this game has turned into.

    There are no longer any precision movements or ability usage required to be good.

    I think that people should avoid "hating" melee. But at the same time I think Melee players need to step back and ask: What is satisfying about this gameply? As a long time Warrior, Rogue, Ret, DK player I find melee classes completely disgusting to play now because there is nothing special about just doing PVE damage.
    Last edited by FarmI3oy; 2016-12-12 at 09:43 PM.

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