New build is f*cking A!

[High Marshal Sigismund]

Don't wanna play momentum ? Don't , pick another talent . Nemesis isn't that far off.

Don't wanna play Nemesis in 7.1.5? Don't. Pick Momentum, it isn't that far off.

[Raiju]

Don't wanna play Nemesis in 7.1.5? Don't. Pick Momentum, it isn't that far off.

Goes against design intent - more difficult talents should be stronger.

[Deleted]

I don't care if our dps is high if it feels like crap to play. I don't have the ring and I certainly won't have the shoulders. My fury generation on PTR is horrible compared to live. I'm losing 25 Fury for Fel Rush from Fel Mastery, lower crit% for Chaos Strike refund, and the nerf to the proc chance of Demon Blades. I'm not even gaining Fel Blade because that's already better on live for single target.

That's why I wasn't happy to see the ring getting changed back to 1-12 fury in the patch notes. I don't want that buff to go to the ring. I want them to buff the fury generation of the class not the legendary. Legendary items shouldn't have such a huge impact on how the class feels. And it'll only get worse if these shoulders are remain untouched. It's hilarious that Ion talked about how it was a mistake to make legendaries effect dps when they're introducing a bunch more legendaries that will certainly have a major impact.

Also our talent choices are starting to suck. Nemesis should be our fallback for when Momentum isn't suited for the fight, First Blood shouldn't lose to Chaos Cleave, and Demonic should be scrapped for an actual third talent choice.

[Deleted]

Goes against design intent - more difficult talents should be stronger.

actually the talent isnt more difficult. Just take a look at some of the method guys streaming when playing DH and canceling fel rush via a macro with their hardware.

[Zyky]

I mean you're basically talking with BiS items that you got a DPS increase. OH BOY! You're not looking at the big picture being that without at least 2p tier, Nighthold Trinkets, and both the Ring and Shoulder legendaries, we're in a really bad place, a massive DPS LOSS place. Only a handful of players are going to have BOTH the Ring and the Shoulders early on. Tier and Trinkets are a little more manageable to get, but still we all it does is bring us on par. Please look at the big picture before you're like "OMG DPS INCREASE!!!!" because its not a DPS increase without absolutely amazing luck. We're still Fury starved on and off too which is a big problem as well.

[High Marshal Sigismund]

Goes against design intent - more difficult talents should be stronger.

Completely subjective.

[Deleted]

I mean you're basically talking with BiS items that you got a DPS increase. OH BOY! You're not looking at the big picture being that without at least 2p tier, Nighthold Trinkets, and both the Ring and Shoulder legendaries, we're in a really bad place, a massive DPS LOSS place. Only a handful of players are going to have BOTH the Ring and the Shoulders early on. Tier and Trinkets are a little more manageable to get, but still we all it does is bring us on par. Please look at the big picture before you're like "OMG DPS INCREASE!!!!" because its not a DPS increase without absolutely amazing luck. We're still Fury starved on and off too which is a big problem as well.

Sorry, you're wrong, if you took a look at the tests you'll see that I included a parse with unlucky legendaries (which I got) and non bis items (nighthold) items in my current live gear. It is still a dps increase compared to live. Please pay a bit more attention to the post instead of skimming it (assuming you did, not calling you out) I wasn't talking about me having a dps increase with bis items, I was talking about having a dps increase in general and included bis items in a few tests and non bis items.

[Zyky]

Sorry, you're wrong, if you took a look at the tests you'll see that I included a parse with unlucky legendaries (which I got) and non bis items (nighthold) items in my current live gear. It is still a dps increase compared to live. Please pay a bit more attention to the post instead of skimming it (assuming you did, not calling you out) I wasn't talking about me having a dps increase with bis items, I was talking about having a dps increase in general and included bis items in a few tests and non bis items.

Please pay attention to the majority of the demon hunter community on the actual wow forums, of players in better guilds than I'm sure you're in, who actually post warcraftlogs of how its a DPS loss instead of subjective screenshots that don't tell anything. All it really shows is that you're awful with Momentum on live if you're getting a dps increase from what's currently in ptr without both best legendaries, at least 2p, and Nighthold trinkets.

Pay attention you 23 post troll.

Keep it civil

[Raiju]

Completely subjective.

No, this was stated by blizzard. More difficult talents should yield higher dps.
@Chisa using examples of using third party software to break ToS is not an argument for what isn't more difficult. If you are literally CHEATING to avoid the increased difficulty, you can't say it's not more difficult.

[High Marshal Sigismund]

Doesn't matter what Blizzard said, it's irrelevant. The point is you can't objectively prove Momentum is harder than Fel Eruption or Nemesis. Your point is moot.

[Deleted]

Doesn't matter what Blizzard said, it's irrelevant. The point is you can't objectively prove Momentum is harder than Fel Eruption or Nemesis. Your point is moot.

Yes you can objectively prove that momentum is harder than Fel Eruption or Nemesis.

Dragons of Nightmare : A lot of stuff to watch out, very important to dodge all the mechanics that have the potential to one shot you. Situational awareness is really important on this fight. With nemesis build all you have to do is stand still and move out of mechanics that are coming your way. With momentum you have to do that on top of paying attention to where you fel rush and vengeful retreat, while trying to maximize your momentum uptime AND trying to avoid boss mechanics.

Anyone who believes momentum is not harder than nemesis or fel eruption is delusional. And yes, harder talents/specs should be more rewarding. End of story.

[Svisalith]

Most of the DHs I know in game have either stopped playing because they didn't want to deal with the horrible playstyle that momentum makes, or knowingly do less dps to make it an enjoyable class by not using that talent while they build up an alt that isn't hobbled by such a horrible mechanic.

This board has a very vocal few that don't represent the actual make up.

~90% of the DH's that are actually playing and logging heroic raids are using momentum; more in Mythic and less in Normal. No need for anecdotes.

[Raiju]

Doesn't matter what Blizzard said, it's irrelevant. The point is you can't objectively prove Momentum is harder than Fel Eruption or Nemesis. Your point is moot.

You're fucking brilliant.

It's a shame such blatant t******g isn't allowed to be called out on these forums for..whatever reason.

I typed up an explanation as to how to measure momentums (obvious) difficult increase but then felt what's the point. You know it's more involved, I do, everyone else reading does, you're just wasting trying to push against something you don't like.

And yes, the developers words on class design are indeed, irrelevant.

[Deleted]

Momentum is brilliant, I don't care if they buff Nemesis, I don't care if they make Fel Eruption spit out a dev with a nerf hammer waking the target I will still use momentum becouse it doesn't feel lasy and usless. The target dummy is only good to learn the rotation but not to mesure dps since most of the fights require moving. Nemesis has a 2 min cd lasts longer but still you will have to wait untill its refreshed to use it again and there is a huge time space when you have no damage buffs, it may be useful in PvP since the nerf to our artifact trait than you would have to go Felblade but thats another button to push for already a lasy player. ( For a committed person its no problem but for most casuals that play for fun its an anoying addition ). Fel Eruption is still shit, if we could chain CC in PvP it would be great but we won't have enough fury to combo it with our aoe stun and rotation, it should be redesinged or thrown out and maby replaced with a survivability talent similar to cloak of shadows.

The concept of using felblade is nice, having an alternative route is always greate but I don't really like the abillity. My biggest issue is our fury generation becouse most of the time I worry about not going under 50 fury to be able to spam Chaos Strices and not having the damn legendary ring for it is the biggest pain in the ass a Havoc can get.

[Deleted]

Please pay attention to the majority of the demon hunter community on the actual wow forums, of players in better guilds than I'm sure you're in, who actually post warcraftlogs of how its a DPS loss instead of subjective screenshots that don't tell anything. All it really shows is that you're awful with Momentum on live if you're getting a dps increase from what's currently in ptr without both best legendaries, at least 2p, and Nighthold trinkets.

Pay attention you 23 post troll.

Damn, you kiss your mom with that mouth? Watch your language. Now then, show me these logs where It's a dps loss? Don't make claims without any proof to it, you might as well not post at all then. As for my guild, momentum uptime and whatnot, feel free to proof that as well on my logs, considering I am the 748th ranked Demon hunter in the world whilst having missed an ursoc kill for 2 weeks. (good luck finding any sub optimal momentum fight in my logs,lol.) Also I didn't know 23 posts= a troll, I guess you were one then as well - pretty ignorant statement. The dh's i've been on the ptr with and raid on my realm with range from the top 1500 to top 800 guilds, I'm included within that range - method has a dh that actually stated on one of his streams that dh's are way more powerful in the next patch if the current build would go live. Source: Since you're not a troll I'll assume that you can find it on twitch yourself. Further proving that your previous statement is either wrong or a lie. Other then that, I already stated (and your brain failed to realize this it seems) that the entire post was from personal experience, thus subjective.

So unless you're calling sicklikeme a bad dh (the number 1 ranked dh in the world which raids in Serenity) that's bad with momentum, I advice you to practice what you preach and actually proof your claims, you might as well show us your progress and logs while you're at it. I'd love to see you outperform anyone in this thread atm. Then again your name doesn't exist on logs so you could use anyone and pretend It's you. Going by YOUR logics, I might as well consider you a troll and ignore your posts. Yeah, sounds way more mature then anything you've said so far.

[Zyky]

Damn, you kiss your mom with that mouth? Watch your language. Now then, show me these logs where It's a dps loss? Don't make claims without any proof to it, you might as well not post at all then. As for my guild, momentum uptime and whatnot, feel free to proof that as well on my logs, considering I am the 748th ranked Demon hunter in the world whilst having missed an ursoc kill for 2 weeks. (good luck finding any sub optimal momentum fight in my logs,lol.) Also I didn't know 23 posts= a troll, I guess you were one then as well - pretty ignorant statement. The dh's i've been on the ptr with and raid on my realm with range from the top 1500 to top 800 guilds, I'm included within that range - method has a dh that actually stated on one of his streams that dh's are way more powerful in the next patch if the current build would go live. Source: Since you're not a troll I'll assume that you can find it on twitch yourself. Further proving that your previous statement is either wrong or a lie. Other then that, I already stated (and your brain failed to realize this it seems) that the entire post was from personal experience, thus subjective.

So unless you're calling sicklikeme a bad dh (the number 1 ranked dh in the world which raids in Serenity) that's bad with momentum, I advice you to practice what you preach and actually proof your claims, you might as well show us your progress and logs while you're at it. I'd love to see you outperform anyone in this thread atm. Then again your name doesn't exist on logs so you could use anyone and pretend It's you. Going by YOUR logics, I might as well consider you a troll and ignore your posts. Yeah, sounds way more mature then anything you've said so far.

I told you exactly where to go find them. Go look on the offical ptr forums. It's not my job to hold your hand and link a bunch of logs proving your incompetence to do research.

[Deleted]

I told you exactly where to go find them. Go look on the offical ptr forums. It's not my job to hold your hand and link a bunch of logs proving your incompetence to do research.

I actually did, I'm still waiting for you to proof any of it since everything you've said so far was grabbed out of your ass and thrown on the table. Claiming high ranked dh's saying its a dps loss was a lie. Trying to bash me seemed to fail as well, is there anything true you've said so far? Still waiting for you to show me my 'sub-optimal' momentum btw, unless..you can't proof that as well? What a shame. Fyi, I'm pretty active on the icy-veins (only to help with logs on IV) AND official WoW ptr forum, don't see any dh crying about the recent build, so I'm just guessing you lied there as well just so you can feel good behind your computer screen. You go keyboard warrior! Speaking of incompetence, might as well add ignorance for you there as well.

[Deleted]

Damn, you kiss your mom with that mouth? Watch your language. Now then, show me these logs where It's a dps loss? Don't make claims without any proof to it, you might as well not post at all then. As for my guild, momentum uptime and whatnot, feel free to proof that as well on my logs, considering I am the 748th ranked Demon hunter in the world whilst having missed an ursoc kill for 2 weeks. (good luck finding any sub optimal momentum fight in my logs,lol.) Also I didn't know 23 posts= a troll, I guess you were one then as well - pretty ignorant statement. The dh's i've been on the ptr with and raid on my realm with range from the top 1500 to top 800 guilds, I'm included within that range - method has a dh that actually stated on one of his streams that dh's are way more powerful in the next patch if the current build would go live. Source: Since you're not a troll I'll assume that you can find it on twitch yourself. Further proving that your previous statement is either wrong or a lie. Other then that, I already stated (and your brain failed to realize this it seems) that the entire post was from personal experience, thus subjective.

So unless you're calling sicklikeme a bad dh (the number 1 ranked dh in the world which raids in Serenity) that's bad with momentum, I advice you to practice what you preach and actually proof your claims, you might as well show us your progress and logs while you're at it. I'd love to see you outperform anyone in this thread atm. Then again your name doesn't exist on logs so you could use anyone and pretend It's you. Going by YOUR logics, I might as well consider you a troll and ignore your posts. Yeah, sounds way more mature then anything you've said so far.

I like how you say that Sicklikeme is number 1 ranked dh in the world, hes not ranked 1 on all bosses, not even close mate and no hes not the best DH in the world, but yes hes a good player Btw could you please link your logs? I would like to see your logs, I'm not here to be rude or anything, just wish to see em and just wanted to tell that Fragnance is not the best DH in the world, hes been the best player in the world with other classes tho, but not as DH atm :P

[datsuag]

So what you're saying is most people you know are shitty DHs who should reroll rogue?

[Xenyatta]

Personally I hate momentum. I don't mind weaving movement in but I hate being forced to keep moving around like a jack rabbit on speed. I like to move, hit for a moment, move, hit for a bit. I guess a little more relaxed would be more fun imo. I would like to see other talents to be EQUAL to momentum so those who like it can keep it and those who don't like it can have another option without one side being forced into a play style they don't like.