Too many guilds, not enough players?

[Deleted]

Exactly, which is why heroic raiding and mythic+ should be server specific. What you said is exactly whats wrong with players in this game. You have no interest in playing an mmo with other people, the only thing you have interest in is "looting your loot". As an mmo this is a community game, that's the ONLY way to play an mmo. There shouldn't be any of this catering to people who want to dictate everything as if they're entitled to it. Sorry you special little snowflake but you're not entitled to demand misc random raiding hours every week and Blizzard shouldn't allow people like you to do it. You're part of the problem with the game.

Judging from your words, seems like you are very angry and lost control totally.

From whom Im demanding random raid hours? Im pugging, for god sakes, Im fine with it
ONLY way to play MMO????
Im dictating anything? By playing the game as it is offered?
Are you listening to yourself?

This stuff you are on is too strong, you know

[Zyky]

Judging from your words, seems like you are very angry and lost control totally.

From whom Im demanding random raid hours? Im pugging, for god sakes, Im fine with it
ONLY way to play MMO????
Im dictating anything? By playing the game as it is offered?
Are you listening to yourself?

This stuff you are on is too strong, you know

You have this sense of entitlement from all your posts to just quote a few:

These days comunities are made in guilds, if you miss social interaction, you can have one in the guild.
I dont need game community, my community is in real life, dont need virtual one.

Why would I listen to stupid nonsense over teamspeak when I can listen to music while raiding?

Why would I commit to schedule when I can raid in early afternoon or late night, whenever I want basically? No guild can offer that kind of convinience..
Sorry, but guilds are good only for perks and ocassional chat

You may be "fine with it" but its not a realistic way that's healthy for the games growth. If you even read any of my first post I explained how people like you and features like Group Finder are killing guilds. They need to make guilds worth something again, how do you do that? You make it so scrubs, like you, can't pug Heroic or Mythic+ without actually putting some effort into the game. Then you'll try to dictate what hours you want to play and no guild is going to tolerate it. You're not playing an mmo if you're doing it yourself and with no community. It barely qualifies as multiplayer what you're doing in the game. You are dictating everything by wanting it to stay the same so that more guilds die because of people like you. You have no common sense.

The problem with the game is that too much is available to people who don't want do actually put effort in. The game is too rewarding to players, like you, who don't want to join a guild to progress with other people.

Last expansion WoW had thousands of guilds die, be them good or bad guilds, why? Because of group finder made the content too available, it made the game too easy for people to dictate when they want to raid and it made it so these players didn't need a guild. The whole point of PvE in an MMO is so that a group of people who play regularly together can do content. An mmo isn't about how lazy can I be to just join a pug, get handed free loot, and not have to have a social life.

[Confessions]

I have had a trouble finding a guild that fits my play style. Even looked on reddit and offer to move servers or faction change. I just want a heroic raiding guild because I have varying playtimes so if I can't make a raid it isn't a huge deal. I am more interested in mythic+ system but haven't had a chance to do it much since I hate pugging them. Hard to find a guild that actually has an active player base on except during raid hours as well sucks being one of maybe four people on. I miss the old days when a few of my friends played and we were all in a awesome guild that raised Kara but then did other shit together in the offtime like pvp for fun. Voice chat was always a riot during the non raid times. a lot of fun.

I am sure this type of guild still exists but i just haven't had much luck finding it.

[Teri]

Y

You may be "fine with it" but its not a realistic way that's healthy for the games growth. If you even read any of my first post I explained how people like you and features like Group Finder are killing guilds. They need to make guilds worth something again, how do you do that? You make it so scrubs, like you, can't pug Heroic or Mythic+ without actually putting some effort into the game. Then you'll try to dictate what hours you want to play and no guild is going to tolerate it. You're not playing an mmo if you're doing it yourself and with no community. It barely qualifies as multiplayer what you're doing in the game. You are dictating everything by wanting it to stay the same so that more guilds die because of people like you. You have no common sense.

An mmo isn't about how lazy can I be to just join a pug, get handed free loot, and not have to have a social life.

I think this is a very valid reason, people don't care about other people, they care about their itemlevel and gear and class/spec. Especially on cross server content.

Sure there might be groups of friends or long standing guilds from the past, but I don't think that's the majority anymore.

Part of why people get so nostalgic the last years about Vanilla is likely not even the raids/dungeons and quests, it's the feeling of social atmosphere.

You were a human being on the server, you interact with other human beings to kill X Zone elite(s) or World boss, or Dungeon/raid groups.

You needed other players to do long questlines, for keys, for crafting, and of course raids.

Look now in cities or CRZ you cannot even trade someone for crafting something if they are not form your realm.

Now, you are a random click of a button away from pretty much anything except mythic raids, the rest of the looking for group tool is either automated or you are simply a class/spec/statistic.

The internet has 1 really bad side, if people don't see eachother again, or are likely not to have any effect on some game/server, some people will take the chance act toxic for their own gains at any moment they see.

[shadowmatrix]

People choose when they can and can't raid?! Next thing you know they will be choosing what time they log on or when they stop paying their subscription. This is madness, madness I say!

[Deleted]

You have this sense of entitlement from all your posts to just quote a few:







You may be "fine with it" but its not a realistic way that's healthy for the games growth. If you even read any of my first post I explained how people like you and features like Group Finder are killing guilds. They need to make guilds worth something again, how do you do that? You make it so scrubs, like you, can't pug Heroic or Mythic+ without actually putting some effort into the game. Then you'll try to dictate what hours you want to play and no guild is going to tolerate it. You're not playing an mmo if you're doing it yourself and with no community. It barely qualifies as multiplayer what you're doing in the game. You are dictating everything by wanting it to stay the same so that more guilds die because of people like you. You have no common sense.

The problem with the game is that too much is available to people who don't want do actually put effort in. The game is too rewarding to players, like you, who don't want to join a guild to progress with other people.

Last expansion WoW had thousands of guilds die, be them good or bad guilds, why? Because of group finder made the content too available, it made the game too easy for people to dictate when they want to raid and it made it so these players didn't need a guild. The whole point of PvE in an MMO is so that a group of people who play regularly together can do content. An mmo isn't about how lazy can I be to just join a pug, get handed free loot, and not have to have a social life.

So what if the guilds die? Any harm done? Anyone died over it?
You have taken WoW too seriously, took it as substitute for your life. Guess thats why you are so defensive about guilds and social bonds and going into offending someone who dont share your view.
Sorry, I play wow for years, but for me its only a game.
Or maybe you playing wrong game, Second Life seems more appropriate for you.

[Zyky]

So what if the guilds die? Any harm done? Anyone died over it?
You have taken WoW too seriously, took it as substitute for your life. Guess thats why you are so defensive about guilds and social bonds and going into offending someone who dont share your view.
Sorry, I play wow for years, but for me its only a game.
Or maybe you playing wrong game, Second Life seems more appropriate for you.

Sorry that you're that mentally challenged and can't get this through you(obviously) esl head, but an MMO is about social communication to do content together its in the name MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME. Its not a single player game, its made for multiple people to do stuff together on a regular basis.

[Dsc]

I did it for years. at a rather high level. Now I just futz around. Every once in awhile, I get an itch. Usually its when my guild downs whatever Mythic boss it is they have been pushing progression on. I miss the commoradery. Learning new fights together in a 25 Man team, trying strats, getting those server first kills. In a rare instance we even had a shot at a world first in early MOP. ( Vodka got it by a few hours. -.-)
BUT.... I don't miss farming raids like Ulduar ( my favorite raid ) for Vals, coupled with TOGC) while pushing early ICC... made for long weeks... or content droughts with shitty content and selling our 50th or whatever Handmaiden in DS waiting for MOP....

Blizz has it so that although I won't be 895 I can still be 865-880 easily without raiding a thing right now. And much better Itemized than the current raid gear ( at least till nighthold tiers) Plenty good enough to do whatever I want, and even slip back to hardcore if I ever desired, and it's overkill for questing.

The rewards just don't seem there right now, If I had a small ten man team for a day or two a week maybe, but meh the game doesn't support it. It's Blizz's doing.

They should have left shit just like it was in TBC. iT'S BEEN FUCKED UP EVER SINCE, WITH 10 REG 10 H 25 REG 25 HEROIC, MYTHIC THIS ( DUMB NAME) FLEX THAT. ... you get the idea.

[Roar-Powah]

Nope. Just way too many people too scared to talk to other people. Strange.

More like I'm sick of the toxic school girl behavior that so many guilds have. I like the banter but when snide remarks are pointed at your direction time and time again for no reason it gets old. Also the back stabbing with talking shit about peoples behind their back really got to me, and it wasn't aimed at my self a lot of the time. One guildie had an issue with being picked on and i put a stop to it, after that i was the target so i asked for it to stop but it kept on going. A guild that i had a very big hand in making i left, i just got sick of people attitudes.

A bunch of mid 20's males acting like this gets old, and I was the one being called a kid because i got sick of this crap and left. I like the banter but they just went too far, but what you do expect from the internet and the anonymity it brings. Now with all this I'm finding it hard to get the motivation of finding another guild, but the new classic servers are coming on the 17th so i might give them a try and see if it's playable from where I am from.

[Brewhan]

yo im in this guild they tryna to get me to tank stuff for them or come to these raids and im like yo im an alpha male if I want to show up or tank something for you I will but dont try to peer pressure me into these set scheduled times of playing a video game . I play when i want.

beast mode

[bewbew]

I run my small RP guild and don't really have an issue with recruiting when I want to. The bigger issue is when I want to add new people to my RP circle. I've begun treating my guild like a business, with myself being the employer of those that want to join our prevalent little RP circle. I get inquiries roughly about once or twice a week, sometimes more, sometimes less, but once I dive into what these people seek in a guild and go over some of the general information, I tend to lose interest in what they can bring to my guild and I tend to not follow up, letting them follow up or get in contact with me on getting an interview. Most of the time, they don't show up or contact me, in that instance, I simply forget about them, just as I would with someone looking for a job but refuses to upkeep contact with an employer.

You have a RP guild.

The issue he is presenting is based on Recruitment when you have a fixed (20 man) format to mold your Guild around.

And yes, it's very annoying. But half the issue is flex to begin with - when players can complete 3 difficulties without needing a "SERIOUS" guild, then they might as well stay in their guild with 13 people and do Heroics only... forever.

And thus the pool of potential 20 man mythic raiders is further reduced.

[Kensio]

And this is why i believe that removing the 10 man format was a mistake. Large formats are better and preferable no doubt, but the game doesn't support them totally anymore.

Couldn't agree more and that, my guild currently basically given up on mythic raiding due to lack of ppl...
I really miss the 10 man days, and if you ask me, my honest opinion is that I hate the normal/heroic/mythic brackets, I prefer it as it was at WoTLK, normal and heroic only.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

My guild has an active raid roster of ~25 plus another 20-30 socials and ex raiders. Most of them has been in the guild for years and that's a key for what we want our guild to be, a place to call home. It does not matter if you're a raider or friend of someone, if you behave like an ass you'll be removed, we recently removed our best healer because he was behaving badly in the guild and also caused people outside the guild to complain about him. Our guild is 11+ years old and we're the guild we are largely because of our ability to keep good players, those who have left to try higher raiding has always returned because of our community.
There's not many guilds these days that legit has 100 different players per week, reason we manage to do so is simple: good reputation.

[Deleted]

My guild has an active raid roster of ~25 plus another 20-30 socials and ex raiders. Most of them has been in the guild for years and that's a key for what we want our guild to be, a place to call home. It does not matter if you're a raider or friend of someone, if you behave like an ass you'll be removed, we recently removed our best healer because he was behaving badly in the guild and also caused people outside the guild to complain about him. Our guild is 11+ years old and we're the guild we are largely because of our ability to keep good players, those who have left to try higher raiding has always returned because of our community.
There's not many guilds these days that legit has 100 different players per week, reason we manage to do so is simple: good reputation.

that really sounds as a amazing guild atmosphere, wish i had the luck ot be in such kind of guild tbh.

- - - Updated - - -

also that first image is hiilarious.

[Deleted]

Sorry that you're that mentally challenged and can't get this through you(obviously) esl head, but an MMO is about social communication to do content together its in the name MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME. Its not a single player game, its made for multiple people to do stuff together on a regular basis.

I really keep trying to get over your insults, cant take you seriously over it, but nvm, will keep trying.

I dont know where you find that holy bible saying that one MUST chat all day long in mmorpg, but I will continue to play mmorpg "the wrong" way.
Mmorpg - massive multiplayer online roleplaying game.
Is it massive? Yes, it is.
Are there multiple players in game? Yes, there are.
Is it online? Yes, it is.
Roleplaying? Very few ppl roleplay, but ok, lets say it is
Game? Yes it is.
So, where is it said it is socializing game? Multiplayer only means there are other people around. Do you talk to every single passenger in a bus? No, you dont, you just mashing buttons on your phone ignoring them completely.

So, leave out that mmorpg argument, im totally playing under its definition. If its called mmmsodhrpg (massive-multiplayer-online-must-socialize-or-die-hortibly-rpg), I would agree with you at definition only.

Also, it true it is not singleplayer game since there are others around, but it can be played very successfully AS singleplayer, never grouping or talking to with anyone.

[Deleted]

Sorry that you're that mentally challenged and can't get this through you(obviously) esl head, but an MMO is about social communication to do content together its in the name MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME. Its not a single player game, its made for multiple people to do stuff together on a regular basis.

Don't crap yourself again, kid, that diaper looks full already.

1. Multiplayer doesn't mean social; WoW is actually designed around multiplayer features getting in the way of socialising. Of course, considering the degree of developmental issues you're showing it's rather unlikely you ever noticed.
2. Nothing about MMORPG implies doing stuff together on regular basis, especially at the level of togetherness and regularity you seem to be implying. Being an orphan you might miss some of the normal family routines, which are very much doing stuff together on regular basis. Most people playing WoW however are not orphans and your spittle is not helping with getting them to stand in for the family you never had.
3. Funny how you miss the most important part of name you scream out at the caps top of your baby lungs: game. It's just a game Throwing autistic tantrums about a game is plain hilarious, but I suppose it's not a bad thing - I heard orphans crave attention and a lot of people laughing at you is a sort of attention.

If you were a reliable sample of what guilds are and what kind of people require guilds, it would be necessary to conclude it's very healthy that the guilds do seem to be going extinct. It's high time for autistic screamers like you to start looking for other substitute lives.

[Teri]

So I keep seeing demand for 10 mans, while normal and heroic can be 10 man "flex" raided. Why don't those people go out and do that?

Because they want mythic raid only?

[Deleted]

So I keep seeing demand for 10 mans, while normal and heroic can be 10 man "flex" raided. Why don't those people go out and do that?

Because they want mythic raid only?

Not only, but yes, they want to keep the progression with the 10-man up to maximum level, and not doing heroic and then just stopping.
Also i have found people reluctant to do 10 heroic raiding, because quote "It is not well tuned, and it takes much more effort doing 10 man heroic than doing 17-whatever the maximum is, heroic"
Honestly i do not know if this is true, but everyone thinks like this, the people i play with included.

[Chaelexi]

And this is why i believe that removing the 10 man format was a mistake. Large formats are better and preferable no doubt, but the game doesn't support them totally anymore.

Balancing for mythics of multiple sizes felt terrible as some boss fights fell into being a cutdown version of the fight due to not having enough people to handle a mechanic properly. Mythic raiding has not felt this good since BC when all raids are mythic.

- - - Updated - - -

Not only, but yes, they want to keep the progression with the 10-man up to maximum level, and not doing heroic and then just stopping.
Also i have found people reluctant to do 10 heroic raiding, because quote "It is not well tuned, and it takes much more effort doing 10 man heroic than doing 17-whatever the maximum is, heroic"
Honestly i do not know if this is true, but everyone thinks like this, the people i play with included.

At 10 man getting the ratio of healer-tank-DPS is clumsy until over geared where you can 1-2 heal(2nd being a disc priest) everything and just hammer it with DPS. But prior to being over geared you had to have one person who was a swing class playing healer or DPS depending on the fight and they were stuck gearing 2 specs halfway. 17-20 man raiding are at the perfect point.

[Kirbypro]

remove underpopulated small realms. Why do they still exist, besides greed to keep server xfer money flowing.