Serenity question!

[Kevetic]

I run serenity now. However my DPS with it is terrible.
I keep reading serenity out performs WDP+SEF if you can play
Serenity "optimally"


The problem is, everywhere I look I only see how to open with serenity correctly. Which I can do the opener just fine.
It's during mid fight that I'm getting confused.


I've read walking the wind but I don't understand it to clearly.


Can someone do a quick write up of how to optimally use serenity Mid combat (after opener)

Thanks!

[Deleted]

There are some WAs which you can obtain like "optimal serenity window" etc. It will help you.
Also as a general rule you want to fit 2 RSKs 1 FoF and 1 SotW.
I have the same problem with you. I got drinking horn really early in the expansion and never bothered to learn SER,but now im trying to learn it,i feel im doing less damage but im sticking with it at the moment cause if i dont practice i will never get better with it.
So my not-so-pro tip is to schedule your entire serenity window before pressing it,like thinking beforehand "Ok,ill do RSK then FoF,then RSK,then SotW" etc. Try not to lose a single global. Also another mistake im doing and trying to solve is that on the opener i do TP-ToD-TP then instantly serenity but im still on the previous gcd resulting in losing the first gcd on serenity for no reason.

[Deleted]

To make it as easy as possible, mid fight you want to use Serenity when you can guarantee that you will be able to cast 1 FOF 1 SOTWL and atleast 1 RSK ideally 2.

Sometimes to make that happen you might have to delay Serenity for a little while, but not excessively delay it. Try to remember this. IF FOF and SOTWL have about 12 ish seconds left on their cd, you can use serenity and you will be able to fit them into your serenity window.

[Kevetic]

What about in an AoE environment? Mythic+ for example. Do you want ScK stacks on all targets first than pop serenity or just regular opener and depend on FoF for AoE?

[Pallyxcore]

It's about more than just what you can fit into the Serenity window, but when you pop it. Walking the Wind covers this pretty well, cause that's where I've learned.

Essentially you want to pop Serenity when you have ~15s on FoF and SoTW (I think it's actually 13s for one and 15s for the other). This maximizes your CDs because:
-The CDs are cut in half when you pop Serenity, so that means you're making the most of it by popping it when they're ~15s
-When they're 13s and 15s, you can fit them both into your Serenity window, meaning you benefited from the original CD reduction, and now the CD reduction again from using it within the window
-You want to try to FoF near the end so to not waste the Serenity window time, but also get the CD reduction ( I think that's still accurate)

Babylonius can probably point you to the right place to look or correct what I may have wrong. Happy fisting.

[Deleted]

"You want to try to FoF near the end so to not waste the Serenity window time, but also get the CD reduction ( I think that's still accurate)"

This bit is inaccurate; you want to cast FoF ASAP as long as it doesn't block you from SotW or a second RSK. Often it will end up being the last cast but not always.

[TrenchcoatJesus]

Also another mistake im doing and trying to solve is that on the opener i do TP-ToD-TP then instantly serenity but im still on the previous gcd resulting in losing the first gcd on serenity for no reason.

Why would you do that? If you really want to burn your initial energy I'd pad anything else between TP; i.e. TP-Chi Wave-TP or TP-FSK-TP. Even TP-BoK-TP. As a rule, I always open with (after using Chi Wave, FSK and TP on pull) ToD-Serenity/RSK-SotW-FoF-RSK to fit all my good stuff in my ToD window. Seems very silly to put a TP in a ToD window on opener. The first 4-5 seconds aren't so crucial that you need to waste ToD. You should be using Prolonged Power anyways.

If you are using Old War for some reason, I'd say to do TP-ToD-Serenity/RSK etc. and skip the second TP. As a reminder, you don't need to have 3 chi to use FoF in serenity.

[Pallyxcore]

TP-TOD-TP(-SEF) is the opener you should be using if have SEF and Power Strikes, not Serenity. That way you have 5 combo points at the start of SEF to burn FoF and then SotW. Take everything I say with a grain of salt and always check Walking the Wind before changing your playstyle.

[Deleted]

thx for the tips. still learning this bad boy

[Deleted]

Using FoF at the very end of Serenity is just plain wrong. I analyzed the top 10 logs for most of the fights and figured this:

Opener:
ToD > Serenity > RSK > SotW > FoF > RSK > BoK > SCK

While waiting for your next Serenity, it's super important that you cast SotW as soon as it comes off CD since otherwise you'd need to delay your Serenity more.

For your next Serenity check your CD's for this:
RSK up - FoF max 4 sec CD - SotW max 12 sec CD.

Now you cast Serenity > RSK > FoF asap > SotW asap > RSK again in the ending. You fill with BoK > SCK.

Using FoF during the Serenity buff ends up in a DPS gain.

[Kevetic]

Using FoF at the very end of Serenity is just plain wrong. I analyzed the top 10 logs for most of the fights and figured this:

Opener:
ToD > Serenity > RSK > SotW > FoF > RSK > BoK > SCK

While waiting for your next Serenity, it's super important that you cast SotW as soon as it comes off CD since otherwise you'd need to delay your Serenity more.

For your next Serenity check your CD's for this:
RSK up - FoF max 4 sec CD - SotW max 12 sec CD.

Now you cast Serenity > RSK > FoF asap > SotW asap > RSK again in the ending. You fill with BoK > SCK.

Using FoF during the Serenity buff ends up in a DPS gain.

This is currently what I do Opener/Mid fight. I just need to work on practicing the timings better or somethin. I always feel like I'm waiting for something mid fight. Double checking all cds and stuff...

[zandril]

Using FoF at the very end of Serenity is just plain wrong. I analyzed the top 10 logs for most of the fights and figured this:

Opener:
ToD > Serenity > RSK > SotW > FoF > RSK > BoK > SCK

While waiting for your next Serenity, it's super important that you cast SotW as soon as it comes off CD since otherwise you'd need to delay your Serenity more.

For your next Serenity check your CD's for this:
RSK up - FoF max 4 sec CD - SotW max 12 sec CD.

Now you cast Serenity > RSK > FoF asap > SotW asap > RSK again in the ending. You fill with BoK > SCK.

Using FoF during the Serenity buff ends up in a DPS gain.

I said the same thing in the monk discord after I analyzed logs and most of them were like it's wrong to channel FoF during serenity but when I mentioned the top monks are doing it nobody said shit. Moving on something somebody mentioned here was to make a macro with serenity and RSK I made one and imo it helped a fair amount.

[rudeboi]

With the opening serenity, i try and build up hit combo to at least 4 or 5. Then serenity.

In a serenity, i RSK, FoF, SOTW, RSK, and maybe get a BoK in there before it expires. ToD should also go off during serenity (so you cast it before serenity).

[Deleted]

ToD should also go off during serenity (so you cast it before serenity).

Again, this is a wrong information. With the first Serenity it should be used together. After that one, you should only use them together, when you know you can only fit in 1 Serenity and 1 ToD and the boss would die. So for example when the fight takes 2:30 min, you can only fit 2 of both in anyway.

Problem with that is, that your SotW CD might screw you up. The 10% ToD bonus isn't that big anyway: let's say you deal 1M DPS while Serenity is up, ToD debuff takes 8 seconds to pop off - so 10% * 1M * 8 sec = 800.000 damage.

I wouldn't potentially screw up my rotaion and CD timings, just to deal 800.000 damage more to a boss tbh.

[Flaryon]

What about in an AoE environment? Mythic+ for example. Do you want ScK stacks on all targets first than pop serenity or just regular opener and depend on FoF for AoE?

Also interested in answer to this

[Deleted]

With the opening serenity, i try and build up hit combo to at least 4 or 5. Then serenity.

In a serenity, i RSK, FoF, SOTW, RSK, and maybe get a BoK in there before it expires. ToD should also go off during serenity (so you cast it before serenity).

SCK is higher DPS than BoK, even on ST - so use that as filler during Serenity instead of BoK.

Had to switch back to SEF with bracers, though, because I can't pull of Serenity+new raid fights to the level of SEF+bracers. So as I'm not an active Serenity user, take it all with salt. But don't get too salty.

[promithius]

SCK is higher DPS than BoK, even on ST - so use that as filler during Serenity instead of BoK.

It is not.

[Babylonius]

It is not.

It is when you remove the chi requirement. SCK does more damage per cast than BoK.

[ColdRage]

I typically use Serinity -> SCK, SoTW, RSK, FoF, RSK, BoK for my rotation opener, but that is after I built up to at least 6 on my Hit Combo. to get a few extra kicks in for FoF buff. On the pull with lust the BoK gets in every time but usually doesn't make it mid fight unless I get haste proc from Bloodthirsty Instinct.

[rudeboi]

Again, this is a wrong information. With the first Serenity it should be used together.

Yes. Maybe i didn't make myself clear, but I was only talking about the "opening serenity", not the one's after. So ToD and Serenity are used together.

After that, due to the differing CD's, it's hard to line them up again, so it generally doesn't make it worth waiting for ToD.