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  1. #1621
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylonius View Post
    Haste can be weird on SimC because of the fixed time frame, try increasing the fight length variance or just put haste a point or two below anything else.
    Hmm, thanks. Tried increasing that to 50%, still got haste as top for AoE (by far the worst for ST, ofc). I'm setting it to HecticAddCleave, with num enemies as 6 (to try and vaguely resemble M+ or similar add heavy fights) - I presume that's how I'm meant to do it? Don't like Simming too often with simcraft, as my CPU is old and I can't sim and play at the same time.

  2. #1622
    Quote Originally Posted by Penne View Post
    Hmm, thanks. Tried increasing that to 50%, still got haste as top for AoE (by far the worst for ST, ofc). I'm setting it to HecticAddCleave, with num enemies as 6 (to try and vaguely resemble M+ or similar add heavy fights) - I presume that's how I'm meant to do it? Don't like Simming too often with simcraft, as my CPU is old and I can't sim and play at the same time.
    That sounds kind of reasonable. In a sustained fight with 6 targets, most of your damage is going to come from SCK, which means you need as much energy to consistently tag targets with TP and then spend the chi on SCK. Haste is the most effective way to get more chi, which you'll need more than in a single target fight. So it checks out. Still don't think it's worth stressing out on getting a haste heavy gear set. The normal ST setup still does perfectly strong AoE, and there are so many priority mobs/affixes that encourage a more focused approach to trash.

  3. #1623
    Herald of the Titans Babylonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penne View Post
    Hmm, thanks. Tried increasing that to 50%, still got haste as top for AoE (by far the worst for ST, ofc). I'm setting it to HecticAddCleave, with num enemies as 6 (to try and vaguely resemble M+ or similar add heavy fights) - I presume that's how I'm meant to do it? Don't like Simming too often with simcraft, as my CPU is old and I can't sim and play at the same time.
    Yes, it should be very strong for AOE when you're casting more SCK.
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  4. #1624
    Was there any ww buff yesterday? It's disappointing how bad ww monks scale with iLevel I'm consistently doing 95%+ on WCL but yet other classes completely destroy me on raid bosses now

  5. #1625
    So I just used simcraft. It says my stat prior is Agi > Vers ~= Crit ~= Mastery > Haste > Wdps...did i mess something up here? Why is mastery third? never used simcraft before.
    If what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Then I should be a god by now.

  6. #1626
    Stats are relative to each other so yes, in your current gear mastery could well be 3rd. What are your current values? Your weights will change with each piece of gear you change.

  7. #1627
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    So I just used simcraft. It says my stat prior is Agi > Vers ~= Crit ~= Mastery > Haste > Wdps...did i mess something up here? Why is mastery third? never used simcraft before.
    Short answer: the more you have of one secondary stat, the stronger the others get. This can reach a point where it's better to get more of the other stats to achieve some kind of balance.

    Longer, but still somewhat simplified, answer: Your secondary stats affect your DPS multiplicatively. Simplified formula for auto-attacks (special attacks mostly follow the same pattern): ActualDPS = DPSfromAgility * (1 + %haste/100) * (1 + %crit/100). Mastery and Versa are added generally the same way as Haste and Crit, but to illustrate my point we don't need those and in the case of WW, Mastery doesn't do anything for AAs anyway. So assume you can distribute 100% arbitrarily to Haste and Crit. If you put everything into either Haste or Crit, you will get ActualDPS = DPSfromAgility * 2. However, if you put 50% into each, you will get ActualDPS = DPSfromAgility * 2.25. Why is that? Imagine it like this: you already have 50% Haste and now have the choice to gain 1% more Haste or 1% Crit instead. If you choose Crit, you'll increase your DPS by 1% of DPSfromAgility * 1.5. This factor "1.5" comes from the existing Haste. If you choose Haste instead, it's just an increase of 1% of DPSfromAgility * 1. Since you don't have any Crit so far you'll end up with a factor of just 1. Basically: due to their multiplicative nature when it comes to determining DPS, the value of each stat is increased by how much you already have of the other stats. Ideally you want your secondary stats to be balanced such that increasing any of them nets you the same amount of DPS. This is why Babylonius recommends keeping the stats on a certain level relative to each other in one of his guides. And this is also the reason why the recommendation is to resim your character often as the stat weights you get from simulations only tell you what benefits you the most right now. But those weights do not take into account that their relative values change as you acquire better gear.
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  8. #1628
    My current stats are

    Crit - 3,348 - 25.57%
    Haste - 2,147 - 6.61%
    Vers - 2,843 - 7.11%
    Mastery - 9850 - 45.18%
    If what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Then I should be a god by now.

  9. #1629
    Deleted
    Shoulda started with that If mastery is below 40% its the best (After agi ofc), but after that (not sure how is the 40-45% range, different ppl different opinions/sims) wont scale that much and its ~~ others.

  10. #1630
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Orionmnt View Post
    Shoulda started with that If mastery is below 40% its the best (After agi ofc), but after that (not sure how is the 40-45% range, different ppl different opinions/sims) wont scale that much and its ~~ others.
    Also, stat weights change for Serenity and WDP+Bracers - Mastery jumped back up when I switched to WDP. Speaking of this, does running SEF over Serenity change the weights of relics vs iLev?

  11. #1631
    Deleted
    I actually don't follow any stat weights as suggested but I do whatever sims better for my gear, and it so happens to be I got mostly crit gear.

    My current stats are as per:

    Crit - 8,011 - 38,89%
    Haste - 1,243 - 3,82% - got Bloodthirsty instinct at 865, always procs really so this is higher per fight usually
    Vers - 2,373 - 5,93%
    Mastery - 6,936 - 34,77%

    I currently sim for 382k using simcraft the last one I done. ilvl of 877 and level 34 artifact weapon.

    What do you guys say regarding my crit compared to others? My best gear so far was mostly crit and I always sim'd for each upgrade to make sure I get the most dps out of it.

  12. #1632
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by SiimcXD View Post
    I actually don't follow any stat weights as suggested but I do whatever sims better for my gear, and it so happens to be I got mostly crit gear.

    My current stats are as per:

    Crit - 8,011 - 38,89%
    Haste - 1,243 - 3,82% - got Bloodthirsty instinct at 865, always procs really so this is higher per fight usually
    Vers - 2,373 - 5,93%
    Mastery - 6,936 - 34,77%

    I currently sim for 382k using simcraft the last one I done. ilvl of 877 and level 34 artifact weapon.

    What do you guys say regarding my crit compared to others? My best gear so far was mostly crit and I always sim'd for each upgrade to make sure I get the most dps out of it.
    As well as simming for upgrades, I find it handy to maintain Pawn strings - updated after every upgrade - for how good pieces are for ST and AoE. Run SimC with stat weights enabled, and bam.

    Your crit is much, much higher than I've seen common. Having crit so much higher than mastery is worrying. But it depends on what mastery gear you can realistically get your paws on.

  13. #1633
    Quote Originally Posted by Orionmnt View Post
    Shoulda started with that If mastery is below 40% its the best (After agi ofc), but after that (not sure how is the 40-45% range, different ppl different opinions/sims) wont scale that much and its ~~ others.
    So if what I'm understanding is right. I've got way to much mastery, and I need to lower it some for Versatility?
    If what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Then I should be a god by now.

  14. #1634
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    So if what I'm understanding is right. I've got way to much mastery, and I need to lower it some for Versatility?
    You've got vers/crit/mas all roughly equal, so basically view them as the same stat for now, in terms of upgrades. Just ignore haste for ST

  15. #1635
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    So if what I'm understanding is right. I've got way to much mastery, and I need to lower it some for Versatility?
    Probably cit more likely. The sim will give you the relative weights on the last page, I image someone in the 8.xx region for most stats. There is a pawn string under this, I recommend importing that with the in-game addon and flicking through your spare gear and seeing what shows as an upgrade. Just remember to re-sim after each change as Pawn is not dymanic, change 1 or 2 pieces will change the weights for your gear.

    You'll get the hang of doing it quickly after each piece, its not as laborious as I make it sound!

    Babs also did a wordy guide here with rough raw values:

    http://www.walkingthewind.com/2016/09/18/gear-basics/

  16. #1636
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by promithius View Post
    Probably cit more likely. The sim will give you the relative weights on the last page, I image someone in the 8.xx region for most stats. There is a pawn string under this, I recommend importing that with the in-game addon and flicking through your spare gear and seeing what shows as an upgrade. Just remember to re-sim after each change as Pawn is not dymanic, change 1 or 2 pieces will change the weights for your gear.

    You'll get the hang of doing it quickly after each piece, its not as laborious as I make it sound!

    Babs also did a wordy guide here with rough raw values:

    http://www.walkingthewind.com/2016/09/18/gear-basics/
    It is quite laborious, I find. Primarily because updating your Pawn strings requires creating a new one, then typing DELETE to delete the old one. Maybe this is to do with me having renamed them, owing to having a couple of different ones, but it's a pain in the backside. It's also not helped by the fact that my computer dislikes me warcrafting and simming at the same time.
    Last edited by mmoca3e4aa7234; 2016-12-12 at 03:38 PM.

  17. #1637
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Penne View Post
    As well as simming for upgrades, I find it handy to maintain Pawn strings - updated after every upgrade - for how good pieces are for ST and AoE. Run SimC with stat weights enabled, and bam.

    Your crit is much, much higher than I've seen common. Having crit so much higher than mastery is worrying. But it depends on what mastery gear you can realistically get your paws on.
    Yeah, I mostly got crit. I also got 2 880 pieces all with haste instead of mastery which is a tad sad. Such if life.

  18. #1638
    Quote Originally Posted by Penne View Post
    You've got vers/crit/mas all roughly equal, so basically view them as the same stat for now, in terms of upgrades. Just ignore haste for ST
    how are they roughly equal? mastery is 6k above the others.
    Quote Originally Posted by promithius View Post
    Probably cit more likely. The sim will give you the relative weights on the last page, I image someone in the 8.xx region for most stats. There is a pawn string under this, I recommend importing that with the in-game addon and flicking through your spare gear and seeing what shows as an upgrade. Just remember to re-sim after each change as Pawn is not dymanic, change 1 or 2 pieces will change the weights for your gear.

    You'll get the hang of doing it quickly after each piece, its not as laborious as I make it sound!

    Babs also did a wordy guide here with rough raw values:

    http://www.walkingthewind.com/2016/09/18/gear-basics/
    ok thats what i needed i think. thank you. i was looking for something on that, didnt think it would be in "gear basics" lol.

    It says that mastery should be 4500 above vers. My mastery is currently 7000 above vers, and vers is under crit where it should be 800 over it. So i need to up the Vers. Thats why simcraft is rating vers higher than mastery.

    So I guess I need to be keeping on eye out for vers gear, even if it drops my mastery some. Also, I don't have spare gear. Anything I don't equip gets DE'd.
    Last edited by Pandragon; 2016-12-12 at 04:02 PM.
    If what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Then I should be a god by now.

  19. #1639
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    So I just used simcraft. It says my stat prior is Agi > Vers ~= Crit ~= Mastery > Haste > Wdps...did i mess something up here? Why is mastery third? never used simcraft before.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    how are they roughly equal? mastery is 6k above the others.
    I don't mean that the stats are equal, I mean that they're roughly equal in terms of your stat priority. vers ~=crit ~=mas. So they're basically the same importance, so avoid haste and you're probably good to go based on iLev.

  20. #1640
    Ok..so i put the new stat weights into mr robot, and it said i needed to change my gems and enchants from mastery to vers. I changed just my ring enchants and resimmed it, my dps in simcraft did go up, and the stat weights changed slightly. Vers is a little lower, and both crit and mastery increased a little.
    If what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Then I should be a god by now.

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