So another nerf in 7.1.5 is how blizzard is fixing warlocks bad class design??

[Kagthul]

It'd be nice for Warlocks to get a little blurb about their intentions regarding Destruction, at least. If Mages can get two, maybe Locks could get one?

Theyd have to know what they were planning in the first place. They dont, which should be obvious to anyone watching from the sidelines. They have no clue what they are doing. All three of our specs are filled with buggy, unplayable or non-working "designs".

[KrazyK923]

So my friend, would you reroll the class? I am also disappointed by the current state of the class and the part of the community that actually are defending blizzard design san saying we are fine, stop whining like some user with G

The problem is that even if you want to reroll, its so disadvantageous right now to do so. The "catch up" AK mechanic (even with purachasable ranks in 7.1.5) is laughable, and you'd still end up months behind people who have been playing since launch.

There's no good answer. And its because they designed Legion's primary power system as a time sink, even when the same time sink of just gearing up still exists.

[Zandalariprelate]

The problem is that even if you want to reroll, its so disadvantageous right now to do so. The "catch up" AK mechanic (even with purachasable ranks in 7.1.5) is laughable, and you'd still end up months behind people who have been playing since launch.

There's no good answer. And its because they designed Legion's primary power system as a time sink, even when the same time sink of just gearing up still exists.

For my dk that would not be a problem because i have ak 16 but yes is hard to reroll with the current system of legion

[xuros]

The problem is that even if you want to reroll, its so disadvantageous right now to do so. The "catch up" AK mechanic (even with purachasable ranks in 7.1.5) is laughable, and you'd still end up months behind people who have been playing since launch.

There's no good answer. And its because they designed Legion's primary power system as a time sink, even when the same time sink of just gearing up still exists.

Yeah that sucks so much ass to worry about. I have my hunter at 110 and i just log in once a day to do board missions and to keep his AK research going each week. Using bloods form my lock to fund it. But all in all I have so much time and gold invested into my lock that I'd prefer to quit rather than main swap and no other class that I play has the appeal that my lock gives me.

Not going to sit on the sky is falling wagon just yet. I still hope that Blizzard reworks a few things.

[Averrix]

I always feel like such an outcast when I decide to do an LFR and being the only warlock. They really killed this class.

[JacobusRex]

I could go all deep here into arbitrary data research and try and prove a point but really, I'm just gonna say that I was really looking forward to playing the Warlock and even bought a boost so I could play with friends. The problem is that this class has 3 specs that are either cumbersome to play or are just plain boring.

Affliction

I want to main Affliction for PVE DPS but this spec is RIDDLED with problems. I can see what Blizz wanted to do with it but how it's been realized is just awful. Affliction is the definition of cumbersome. Agony, Corruption and Siphon Life if specced. That's one target and 3 GCD. If it's a group of targets, well then I cast Agony, Seed of Corruption, and Drain Life to pop it. That's 3 GCD and still doesn't apply Agony to the group so then I sit there and tab > agony > tab > agony > tab > agony.... and Siphon Life if specced. Oh wow, I'm having so much fun... (Sarcasm) Then if I'm lucky I get to spam Unstable Affliction on a single target or do more tab targeting to cast it in a group.

Guys (talking to Blizz), this is not fun. This isn't even mechanically sound. We need MUCH more efficient ways to spread our dots and Soul Shards should be our main spread spender. We should at least be able to spread our Agony and Corruption via a new spell and Seed of Corruption. (Think old Death Knight's Blood Boil but costing Soul Shards) Speaking of Soul Shards, generation should be constant, not RNG based. 1 Shard every 3 seconds baseline and it gets incrementally quicker with stacking Haste. As for the drain life / drain soul spam, I actually enjoy that channeling animation and the idea of sucking life / soul energy out of my foe but there needs to be a baseline spell for an AOE version of that, dealing less damage to each target but hitting up to 5 targets at once, upping to 8 with Drain Soul talent. Also, if Unstable Affliction is the big bursty dot, then why not layer the damage via soul shards instead of putting it on independent layers? For every Soul Shard it does more damage, longer so it's worth timing your soul shards to appropriate targets, and better yet, bake Haunt's original mechanic into it and have it spread to another target if it dies or takes enough damage like Seed of Corruption. This should be our main source of burst damage, make it fun to apply!

Also, in addition to the AOE we desperately need for Affliction, there's also the issue of the Artifact's main ability. I like the idea of reaping souls out of dead foes but I think the way it's done is just awfully boring. A single plain damage buff? Really? How about a series of random effects if you guys love RNG so much? 20 soul orbs, each one has a certain % chance to give an effect like a free soul shard, a big boost to haste for a time, a huge boost to dot damage for a time, a burst of aoe shadow damage to the target, SOMETHING more than just a stupid buff-on-cooldown...

Destruction

Arguably the most iconic Warlock spec is Destruction and a SOLID off-spec for me because of what it does. That said, there's a lot of ho-hum with this spec that basically just says "you got green fire, be happy..." Destruction is a spec based off inflicting fire damage and A LOT of it. It does that pretty well actually but while the mechanics are pretty solid from my experience, the tuning is off by a noticeable margin. This is a spec that I actually think works well with RNG resource to compliment it's chaotic playstyle ... so give us back Burning Embers... why did you give them to mages? (Visuals for Soul Shards and Burning Embers/Verdant Spheres back please...)

This is a spec that, to me, should play similarly to Arcane where you should always be casting something to burn resources or to build them. I don't want to see the primary buttons change but I do want to see the damage feel more appropriate. Chaos Bolt should be WORTH those Embers. It should feel like casting a giant demonic fel-blast. It does feel like casting a wet noodle guys (blizz) and you know it. The mastery for this spec isn't a terrible idea IMO but that percentage should be much more liberating when you stack up Mastery. This spec has plenty of entertaining, enjoyable AOE abilities so I don't think the Mastery should change to augment that damage but rather more TUNING to make those AOE's feel appropriate to what they do. I would personally recommend putting Rain of Fire in place of Cataclysm and vice versa but that's just me. Rain of Fire uses THREE Embers so it should definitely do the kind of damage that 3 randomly generated resources should do. Right now it feels like an only slightly better version of Cataclysm (if specced). If I could say one things needs to be changed mechanically, is the Havoc talent. It should just make the application be passive... that 20 Seconds is rather insulting for an end tier talent.

As for the Artifact, I personally think it hits a good mark but again a little tuning on the main ability would be great. The dimensional rifts is a really cool idea but again, they're pretty weak for something that should be at least a useful boost in damage. While the Rifts aren't the kind of ability I'd have chosen, (I'd have preferred the staff cast that Demonfire ability!) it's definitely the most solid of the 3 available to the Warlock.

Demonology

*sigh* Okay... this is where I REALLY start having problems with your choices Blizz. I'm gonna get a little personal and say you ruined my dreams of a Witch Doctor-type class in World of Warcraft. That said, as this spec sits right now, it has a lot of vices. I liked where you said you were going with it but what we've gotten is a mess. The core functionality of this spec, the nuanced demon spells and the overall feeling of the class has really suffered, and this is the spec I wanted to main in Legion to boot!

Functionally, the core rotation of this spec is pretty clunky and seems very unfinished. I think I get the idea you were going for but oh boy, is it ever annoying. First of all, what I can only gather as the main source of consistent damage, the Wild Imps, is terribly done. It just is Blizz. Those Imps should be capable of attacking more than just the target Hand of Gul'dan was cast on. I'm sorry but this is just unacceptable. Each cluster of Imps spawned should basically be under player control and should attack what the player tells them to attack, not just one target. Also I feel that if you want to achieve that "Demonic General" feel, this spec should have imps out MUCH longer than 12 seconds. Honestly, I feel there's A TON of opportunity with this spec to make Wild Imps and demons more a part of the class. Tuning needs to be done of course to achieve some level of balance, but Imps should feel more like the Witch Doctor's Tiki Fetishes since that's what you KNOW you were going for originally. Second in that core functionality is the use of Dreadstalkers. This I feel is in a relatively decent place actually but could also use twice the duration. These demons should be part of our consistent damage and possibly swap places with Hand of Gul'dan as our primary consistent damage spell. I certainly feel the Imps should have a cap in the number on the field at one time as well, but it should certainly be around 24 Imps rather than the 12 we now have (i believe?).

While the other two specs have a replacement for Shadow Bolt, I feel this spec should as well. Managing demons is this spec's primary draw so standing there casting piddly little shadow bolts is quite uninteresting. I think Shadow Bolt should be replaced with Shadow Flame, plain and simple. This spec should revolve around using soul shards, generated SOLELY by casting abilities rather than a passive generation, would give us the control we want from a spec like this. Demon Bolt should be the Chaos Bolt of this spec, but remain talented because it serves more a situational purpose than a direct effect on consistency.

Now, about these demon buffs. Again I see what you were going for here but the way it works is both uncomfortable to me and more of a distraction or filler than something meaningful. Everything we do should be meaningful so I hope it wasn't intended to be filler. The way I see it, Demonic Empowerment not having a cooldown shows just how unfinished this spec feels. The reason I can see it has not cooldown is because we generate Imps so randomly and it just doesn't feel like an interesting ability if we're casting it like filler. The only filler we should have is Shadow Flame (replacing Shadow Bolt remember). It should be something we have to time to reap the benefits of, not something we fire off every few seconds when we have more imps. And as for Demon Wrath, again, this should be a more meaningful ability by utilizing soul shards in return for a better damage output for AOE situations.

Now, Hand of Gul'dan and Doom. Hand of Gul'dan, given the problems above being fixed with increased imp duration and Call Dreadstalkers being our main spell of consistent damage, I believe that Hand of Gul'dan should have the soul shard requirement changed to increase damage rather than imps generated and it should generate 4 imps automatically. Doom is interesting because of it's long wait time so of course I think it should not only do a little more damage but also maybe provide a small damage boost to your pets attacking the target. Also, spreading Doom with the talent Hand of Doom would really be a compelling choice with that damage boost to your demons attacking the affected targets. Right now it's just not that appealing.

On a personal note, I feel that we should also have access to two Pet demons at a time as part of our spec. You can probably tell I have some envy for the Beastmaster who gets to have a second pet as well but functionally, I wouldn't mind sharing that ability with them, in a relatively less potent form, as part of the spec baseline, 2 of the same demon to be exact.

Lastly, I can't stress enough Blizz how much I personally, and most Warlocks I've talked with lately, resent the removal of the visuals of our soul shards / burning embers / verdant spheres. Is there something wrong with them? Is it that they tripped your "fun detector" like I've been hearing? Basically it looks like you up and gave them to Fire Mages. >.>

That's all I got to say.

[Valkaneer]

The problem is that even if you want to reroll, its so disadvantageous right now to do so. The "catch up" AK mechanic (even with purachasable ranks in 7.1.5) is laughable, and you'd still end up months behind people who have been playing since launch.

There's no good answer. And its because they designed Legion's primary power system as a time sink, even when the same time sink of just gearing up still exists.

Yes exactly, it's basically they took the old 31 point trees and are making you earn all 31 points in every tree.

[Sunlighthell]

Are there any 7.1.5 sims?

[Deleted]

Yes I remember that. They said something like, "Demo had its time in the sun, now it's over..." because they were coming out with their grand new class - Demon Hunter!

/applauselightflashes

Similar to 5.3 when they nerfed KJC and ninja nerfed Chaos Bolt damage -25% against Resil, because they claimed it was somehow "double dipping" from Resil. What?! Then they hid from Blizz forums for a week while outrage ensued. When they finally addressed it, many of us proved it was all lies and FUD with real numbers, sims, and in-game vids & SS's that they could no longer deny. But the idiotic nerfs stayed anyway.

All because some of the 3-button mongoloid melee classes like DK, and the usual entitled mages & hunters, whined that good kiting (non-backpedaling) Destros were blowing them up - instead of, you know, using their toolkits to counter. Later, hunter was going to be the "niche" kiting class. No soup for you, warlock.

Anyone who believes a word Blizzard says is a complete tool. They do whatever they think will result in the most profit. Period.

This is why most classes (like warlocks) keep rotating between complete shit and god tier. They seem to have no clue about balance. Their mindset with patches seems to be "oh these classes were pretty trash for the past year, let's buff them and let's nerf the top classes currently." This shifts the complaining from one group to the other, because if you keep one group unsatisfied for too long, they are going to quit.

Meanwhile, there hasn't been a single patch since I started playing (late wotlk) where mages have been shit. Ever. Can someone explain this to me?

[Deleted]

This is why most classes (like warlocks) keep rotating between complete shit and god tier. They seem to have no clue about balance. Their mindset with patches seems to be "oh these classes were pretty trash for the past year, let's buff them and let's nerf the top classes currently." This shifts the complaining from one group to the other, because if you keep one group unsatisfied for too long, they are going to quit.

Meanwhile, there hasn't been a single patch since I started playing (late wotlk) where mages have been shit. Ever. Can someone explain this to me?

Mages never been shit indeed , they are played by many people, remember those advertisements, with jean claude vandamme playing mage , sheeping people? Too much money will be lost if they nerf it. And more important thats a class the devs are playing, they are unprofessionnal, lazy, lying most of the time, wow is nothing more than their little play ground . They buff what they like to play .
If wow went from 12 millions suscribers to 3 millions and probably much less now, there's reasons.

[Dwill]

This is why most classes (like warlocks) keep rotating between complete shit and god tier. They seem to have no clue about balance. Their mindset with patches seems to be "oh these classes were pretty trash for the past year, let's buff them and let's nerf the top classes currently." This shifts the complaining from one group to the other, because if you keep one group unsatisfied for too long, they are going to quit.

Meanwhile, there hasn't been a single patch since I started playing (late wotlk) where mages have been shit. Ever. Can someone explain this to me?

Wasn't also the issue with Celestalon and Fel Flame ? If I remember correctly, people kept asking for Fel Flame back early WoD and he told player it wasn't happening and those who wanted it just wanted to be OP.

[Caolela]

Wasn't also the issue with Celestalon and Fel Flame ? If I remember correctly, people kept asking for Fel Flame back early WoD and he told player it wasn't happening and those who wanted it just wanted to be OP.

There was nothing OP about Fel Flame. The thing that Celestalon conveniently forgot was that Fel Flame was a low-damage spell and would quickly run you out of mana if overused. Similar to an Ele sham relying too much on Healing Surge - 4 or 5 casts and you're OOM. FF was used as filler for a couple of casts when nothing else was up while moving out of crap on the ground, or for a few seconds to get some distance from melee.

Just more BS from devs when they use nerf/buff cycles again to cause rerolls.

[Liarparadox]

Theyd have to know what they were planning in the first place. They dont, which should be obvious to anyone watching from the sidelines. They have no clue what they are doing. All three of our specs are filled with buggy, unplayable or non-working "designs".

Yeah I feel like the design is so obviously broken/buggy/without direction that anyone thinking otherwise is too daft to have a conversation with atm. I mean, if you like locks, i seriously envy you. But atm Blizz seems so incredibly clueless or dishonest (or both) about the direction/effort put into locks. I'm at a point where I don't really believe much of anything they say/write anymore. I just hope for something good. The class design teams are terrible this xpac. Great themes; but horribly implemented. Never have I been impressed with an xpac and at the same time found it difficult to have fun with my lock. So many great things this xpac; so many clusterfuks. Frustrating.

[carlos9949]

MORE NERFS
Warlock (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator / Artifact Calculator / PvP Talent Calculator)
(Affliction) Intellect decreased by 5%.

[Deleted]

Thankfully only PVP but I honestly can;t figure out where this one came from. Melee buffs and affliciton lock nerfs...in PVP.