Overall, was Survival a failure?

[Trapped]

I still like Survival and might be my second 110 toon. It's in the running for that slot.

Which kinda proves the point that people that are currently playing it aren't long time Hunter mains.

Survival is being played as fun/alt spec at most.

Survival is also competing with Demon Hunters, which obviously attracted a lot of attention at expansion start.

Long-time hunter mains are playing MM and BM in raids. Most people that are playing SV are not playing it to be competitive in raids, and therefore I conclude its a failure.

[Trapstarz]

right like any other spec's were much more "non braindead" by your standards (there were a rare few), and I had one of max level of every class in LK, Cata, and mop so this is all BS, SV was just fine how it played. (how many other spec was spam x mindlessly or get a luckly proc and spam it more......)

half the spec in the game at that time you could use 1-4 on your keypad and not "fail" with BM as long as you got past some pet pathing issues it was just as easy.

For example MM focus management was pretty arsh during Cata due to the low amount of haste we could have with Crit and mastery beeing to powerfull. You could easily lose a lot of time on your Chimera because you casted the wrong spell a the wrong moment while SV had low cost focus spells that you couldn't lose to much time in your rotation.

[Trapped]

Cannot really agree on that;
most of the playerbase plays the game very casually, never setting foot into even heroic raids... these same players would also not log their raids.

Raid logs will tell you a lot about the popularity of specs in the raiding community, but nothing beyond that. The sample here (those who log raids) is not representative at all and thus the margain of error is rather high when assuming the sample average is what the real average is.

Can't really agree on that.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#difficulty=1

There's LFR statistics for 75th percentile parses in Emerald Nightmare. 28,345 hunter parses, of which 1413 were Survival, which is 4.9%. So roughly 1 out of every 20 hunters is Survival.

Is LFR not casual enough to see the popularity of a spec outside of the raiding community? Are you going to say that if a spec is being used in open world PvE that it makes it a success?

[Dadwen]

For example MM focus management was pretty arsh during Cata due to the low amount of haste we could have with Crit and mastery beeing to powerfull. You could easily lose a lot of time on your Chimera because you casted the wrong spell a the wrong moment while SV had low cost focus spells that you couldn't lose to much time in your rotation.

During the start of Cata focus was a mess anyway for all the spec's they just implemented it, later it was fixed by a lot for all the hunter spec's and felt a lot more fluid. (even just brought that up in another thread a few minutes ago) and they didn't fix Explosive shot clipping till MOP since your talking about Cata, so SV had that to deal with too http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/...ot-be-clipped/

[shadowmouse]

Most people that are playing SV are not playing it to be competitive in raids, and therefore I conclude its a failure.

For you, perhaps. I'm one of those damned casuals and raiding doesn't define the game for me. I enjoy Survival as my spec for world content since I don't vastly out gear it. Back in Vanilla I remember wanting the class' melee abilities to be more developed, not just a reason to make melee hunter jokes. I consider it a success simply because I have fun playing it. To each their own.

[Trapped]

For you, perhaps. I'm one of those damned casuals and raiding doesn't define the game for me. I enjoy Survival as my spec for world content since I don't vastly out gear it. Back in Vanilla I remember wanting the class' melee abilities to be more developed, not just a reason to make melee hunter jokes. I consider it a success simply because I have fun playing it. To each their own.

Well obviously anyone that's playing it is going to say its a success, lol. I am asking to look at the bigger picture.

[Trapstarz]

During the start of Cata focus was a mess anyway for all the spec's they just implemented it, later it was fixed by a lot for all the hunter spec's and felt a lot more fluid. (even just brought that up in another thread a few minutes ago) and they didn't fix Explosive shot clipping till MOP since your talking about Cata, so SV had that to deal with too http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/...ot-be-clipped/

Yeah I know I played SV during the Firelands and DS progress

[Dadwen]

Yeah I know I played SV during the Firelands and DS progress

so you're saying you didn't deal with explosive show clipping during that time and just spammed the shot huh.....

[Trapped]

so you're saying you didn't deal with explosive show clipping during that time and just spammed the shot huh.....

I remember that all too well. That's what separated the good ones from the bad ones. LnL proc = Explosive Shot, wait .5 sec, Explosive shot, wait .5 sec, Explosive shot. If you just spammed all 3 charges consecutively, it was very noticeable.

[Dadwen]

I remember that all too well. That's what separated the good ones from the bad ones. LnL proc = Explosive Shot, wait .5 sec, Explosive shot, wait .5 sec, Explosive shot. If you just spammed all 3 charges consecutively, it was very noticeable.

Exactly... thanks....

guessing since he just said it was spammed on cool-down we know what kind he was.

His exact words not mine ->

LnL procs ? Just spam ExploShot mindlessly.

[Trapstarz]

so you're saying you didn't deal with explosive show clipping during that time and just spammed the shot huh.....

It is very hard for me to deal with pros/against mind.
Taking my experience about MM in DS and Firelands and how it was easy to fuck up doesnt imply I wasnt using clipping as SV gosh ...

[Sarevokcz]

I remember that all too well. That's what separated the good ones from the bad ones. LnL proc = Explosive Shot, wait .5 sec, Explosive shot, wait .5 sec, Explosive shot. If you just spammed all 3 charges consecutively, it was very noticeable.

thats not exactly what you did, you did exp > arcane > exp x 2 or exp x2 > arcane > exp or if you didnt actually have enough focus for the non-LnL exp, since it cost like 50 focus and passive regen was shit back then, you weaved in cobra instead of arcane

[Dadwen]

It is very hard for me to deal with pros/against mind.
Taking my experience about MM in DS and Firelands and how it was easy to fuck up doesnt imply I wasnt using clipping as SV gosh ...

right, so keeping the clipping right was "braindead" spamming ES on cool down...

[Trapstarz]

right, so keeping the clipping right was "braindead" spamming ES on cool down...

I thought you were just tiltin but you just cant read enough

[Dadwen]

I thought you were just tiltin but you just cant read enough

right and you're full of BS there was enough stuff to show the bad SV's from the good SV to call it a braindead spec..

For example MM focus management was pretty arsh during Cata due to the low amount of haste we could have with Crit and mastery beeing to powerfull. You could easily lose a lot of time on your Chimera because you casted the wrong spell a the wrong moment while SV had low cost focus spells that you couldn't lose to much time in your rotation.

and you're the one that brought the woe is me MM Focus Cata argument into the mix, MM had in your words Focus issue and SV had its clipping issues...

and after cata all the classes had things that made them more Braindead by your standards...

[Trapped]

thats not exactly what you did, you did exp > arcane > exp x 2 or exp x2 > arcane > exp or if you didnt actually have enough focus for the non-LnL exp, since it cost like 50 focus and passive regen was shit back then, you weaved in cobra instead of arcane

Didn't that method come at a later time? I was big into EJ back then, and I know it was on there somewhere at the time.

[Trapstarz]

right and you're full of BS there was enough stuff to show the bad SV's from the good SV to call it a braindead spec..


and after cata all the classes had things that made them more Braindead by your standards...

But that was the first thing ever mentioned in any discutions because it was the only thing to know about the spec dude. You idolize this clipping as for me it was just comon sens since exploshot wasnt stacking even an average dude could figure this out.
And yes PvE wise my standarts are very high since its a scripted scenario

[Dadwen]

But that was the first thing ever mentioned in any discutions because it was the only thing to know about the spec dude. You idolize this clipping as for me it was just comon sens since exploshot wasnt stacking even an average dude could figure this out.
And yes PvE wise my standarts are very high since its a scripted scenario

there are other little things that worked into the mix than clipping but SV was not just about spamming it on cool down (and in mop there were other things you could know to play right, it's been a bit but you could see the different in the damaged logs, if it was so brain dead they would a have been pretty much the same giving the gear (even after the clipping fix you could see a difference) and having played all the classes in MOP some where outright a snooze fest and SV was not high on that list. (I though all the classes were a Zzzz feast in WOD the main reason I quit)

but you seemed so quick to bring up Cata MM and list MM downfalls but not SV wonder why.....

[Trapstarz]

there are other little things that worked into the mix than clipping but SV was not just about spamming it on cool down (and in mop there were other things you could know to play right, it's been a bit but you could see the different in the damaged logs, if it was so brain dead they would a have been pretty much the same giving the gear (even after the clipping fix you could see a difference) and having played all the classes in MOP some where outright a snooze fest and SV was not high on that list. (I though all the classes were a Zzzz feast in WOD the main reason I quit)

but you seemed so quick to bring up Cata MM and list MM downfalls but not SV wonder why.....

Because I have more glad as MM and chose the easiest spec when I had to PvE between MM and SV

[Dadwen]

Because I have more glad as MM and chose the easiest spec when I had to PvE between MM and SV

I never liked MM always found it way too boring, did try it a few times, even tried leveling one from scratch just to get the feel of it from the start and didn't care for it.