So this community is completly stupid?

[Deleted]

When Legion was going to be released, everybody said, that Ret's will be completly shit. Even more broken than in WoD. There were countless "reasons" back than, for example that "shitty" mastery, that new blessings, the remove of Hammer of Wrath etc.

Ret was literally called the worst class. Still, in M+ or RBG you have a high chance of being declined.

But why?

Ret's are one of the strongest DPS in rated Arena or PVP. The Burst is insane, the steady dmg is quite good, the healer support is the best in the game, auto bubble is amazing. PvP Ret is just very very solid.

Looking at Raids, Rets might not be the top class, but if there is a proper player behind this ret, you will be very competitive. If you have the right legendaries, you will be a BEAST. A ret being in some of the world first kills, is nothing special.

So, overall Ret is very very fine. So tell me, why did people complain about it so much?

Please refrain from posting unnecessarily inflammatory thread titles.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Because you are delusional if you claim Ret is good.

Decent, yes.
Should we cry tears of joy at being decent?
Somehow I doubt it.

[Cracked]

Because you are delusional if you claim Ret is good.

Decent, yes.
Should we cry tears of joy at being decent?
Somehow I doubt it.

Yeah, compared to historical data, you should.

[Lucreta]

Because you are delusional if you claim Ret is good.

Decent, yes.
Should we cry tears of joy at being decent?
Somehow I doubt it.

This is of course after multiple buffs since launch. So it's not like they were even where they are now out of the gate.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Yeah, compared to historical data, you should.

You were fed dog shit for past 12 years.
Should you be happy now that you are being fed dog food instead of shit?
If you answer "yes" , there might be some self-esteem issue.
Or a case of slave mentality.
Do not be a slave or a settler.

This is of course after multiple buffs since launch. So it's not like they were even where they are now out of the gate.

Did they fix overvulnerability to dispels?
Did they even attempt to reanimate 2/3 of our Dragonslaying talent tree? What about PvP tree? It's riddled with dead talents just as well.
Do you find their upcoming changes to Ret good for the spec?
Do you think DI nerf is an improvement? Pure of Heart nerf? Implementation of Judgement of Pathetic Miniheals?
No hotfix for month to DHammer bug?
Did they listen to our feedback regarding GBlessings or at all during FaiLegion Beta?
Do I have to continue?

[Deleted]

Ret will be in a very great spot with 7.1.5

The buff to the belt legendary is amazing and with basically all other classes receiving juicy nerfs Ret is going to be an extremely attractive damage dealer specc.

[Lucreta]

Did they fix overvulnerability to dispels?
Did they even attempt to reanimate 2/3 of our Dragonslaying talent tree? What about PvP tree? It's riddled with dead talents just as well.
Do you find their upcoming changes to Ret good for the spec?
Do you think DI nerf is an improvement? Pure of Heart nerf? Implementation of Judgement of Pathetic Miniheals?
No hotfix for month to DHammer bug?
Did they listen to our feedback regarding GBlessings or at all during FaiLegion Beta?
Do I have to continue?

You ask me these things as if I was trying to imply they were in some fantastic position currently. I never once said that nor did I even remotely elude to them being there. All I did was agree they were in a "Decent" spot at the moment after multiple hotfixes to the damage of them and other abilities. They still have glaringly obvious flaws and weaknesses not to mention very poor design choices in the rotation and attacks, but they are at least viable at the moment.

[Morally Grey Storm]

You ask me these things as if I was trying to imply they were in some fantastic position currently. I never once said that nor did I even remotely elude to them being there. All I did was agree they were in a "Decent" spot at the moment after multiple hotfixes to the damage of them and other abilities. They still have glaringly obvious flaws and weaknesses not to mention very poor design choices in the rotation and attacks, but they are at least viable at the moment.

oh praise the Emperor we're "at least viable", then.

[Deleted]

When Legion was going to be released, everybody said, that Ret's will be completly shit. Even more broken than in WoD. There were countless "reasons" back than, for example that "shitty" mastery, that new blessings, the remove of Hammer of Wrath etc.

Ret was literally called the worst class. Still, in M+ or RBG you have a high chance of being declined.

But why?

Ret's are one of the strongest DPS in rated Arena or PVP. The Burst is insane, the steady dmg is quite good, the healer support is the best in the game, auto bubble is amazing. PvP Ret is just very very solid.

Looking at Raids, Rets might not be the top class, but if there is a proper player behind this ret, you will be very competitive. If you have the right legendaries, you will be a BEAST. A ret being in some of the world first kills, is nothing special.

So, overall Ret is very very fine. So tell me, why did people complain about it so much?

I think the general consensus for pve was always "yeah, fine". People were possibly overly hard on PvP design.

But there was endless. Endless micro-fixation and circular back-patting on just how terrible a few issues were, though. Made the forum seem more negative than I think it actually was.

Oh, and then there's Storm. Storm won't settle for anything less than the finest wines known to Humanity after years - nay, decades - of injustice. Don't try and ask him to settle for supermarket premium brands.

[Deleted]

When Legion was going to be released, everybody said, that Ret's will be completly shit. Even more broken than in WoD. There were countless "reasons" back than, for example that "shitty" mastery, that new blessings, the remove of Hammer of Wrath etc.

Ret was literally called the worst class. Still, in M+ or RBG you have a high chance of being declined.

But why?

well we were steaming pile of shit until 2 weeks before launch when they gave us the current crusade. That put us into a place were immediate self evisceration was not a must but an option. 3 weeks into legion they buffed us flat out 10% while nerfing other speccs slightly. This brought us to where we are now.

Why we still call BS to the devs?
- our ability to compete depends on one talent and one trinket
- we don´t have any mechanical interaction with secondary stats like warriors with crit (enrage/ rage generation) or WLs (CB mechanic)
- bad joke for a mastery
- 2 BS golden traits
- pvp concerns like we are hard countered by everything that moves our that our complete set is disspellable/spell stealable

I could go on but storm is already sufficiently triggered

Oh nearly forgot greater blessings

[MonksPerSecond]

Personally im generally top 4 dps in raids simply because Ret is all I ever play, i know my character and i know how to perform at maximum. I notice a lot of complaints typically come from those who do not truly know the class or the playstyle or Ret is secondary spec or an alt character. Healer support is amazing with Ret. I play both ret and prot and Im least likely to die as fast playing Ret. Most cases im last to die or I end up clutching a boss fight. Like the OP said, if you get the right gear combined with the right player, Ret is very much a viable spec still and can be quite surprising to some. I love playing Ret and to me the spec just keeps getting funner and funner each expac. Once Intervention was gone, i became 100% loyal to Ret and never play anything else unless my Guild needs a fill in tank last moment.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I think the general consensus for pve was always "yeah, fine". People were possibly overly hard on PvP design.

But there was endless. Endless micro-fixation and circular back-patting on just how terrible a few issues were, though. Made the forum seem more negative than I think it actually was.

Oh, and then there's Storm. Storm won't settle for anything less than the finest wines known to Humanity after years - nay, decades - of injustice. Don't try and ask him to settle for supermarket premium brands.

bullshit.

I won't drink piss and call it brandy. Which I am not sorry for.
But hey, who am I to judge.


We're at least decent.

[Cracked]

You were fed dog shit for past 12 years.
Should you be happy now that you are being fed dog food instead of shit?
If you answer "yes" , there might be some self-esteem issue.
Or a case of slave mentality.
Do not be a slave or a settler.

So you won't be happy until ret is nr 1 in every aspect. Got it. At least now we know there is no reason to post in this thread because OP is unreasonable af.

[Morally Grey Storm]

So you won't be happy until ret is nr 1 in every aspect. Got it. At least now we know there is no reason to post in this thread because OP is unreasonable af.

So you read my post with your asscrack instead of your eyes and proceeded what I said with your womanhood instead of your brains. Got it.

Good job on fabricating a point and then countering it with witty(not) wittycysm.

Please refrain from insulting other forum users.

[Meiffert]

Ret was literally called the worst class.

But why?

Looking at Raids, Rets might not be the top class, but if there is a proper player behind this ret, you will be very competitive.

So, overall Ret is very very fine. So tell me, why did people complain about it so much?

Ret was shit. Then it got buffed, because it was shit, now it's in a decent spot.

So you won't be happy until ret is nr 1 in every aspect. Got it. At least now we know there is no reason to post in this thread because OP is unreasonable af.

To be fair, that's how all class forums look most of the times.
People don't come to forums to say they are in the middle of the pack and doing all right. They come when they have a complaint.
If your class is strong in pvp, people playing dungeons will say that their cleave and aoe is weak. When a class is good in dungeons, you will get raiders disappointed with their sustained single target dps.

[Kisuke42]

Ret will be in a very great spot with 7.1.5

The buff to the belt legendary is amazing and with basically all other classes receiving juicy nerfs Ret is going to be an extremely attractive damage dealer specc.

The buff to the belt wont matter unless for those who have it.
Divine intervention got nerfed so that a bit less survibility.

Not sure if other classes are getting major buffs/nerfs

more mobility would b nice thou.

[Deleted]

Stop using legendaries or buffs to legendaries as examples of a class being good.

The legendary doesn't come with the fucking class, does it? So stop saying "Well if you just get this fucking item that drops off of RNG you'll do amazing things!"

[Deleted]

Obviously to a certain degree Dps matter, but what I want from this spec is to have valuable choices in my talent tree be it PVP and PVE!
It can't be that there is a single best choice build for a spec. There should be more variations which are changing the play style without lacking behind any other build. Obviously a cleave build may lack single target dps compared to a st build, but both should offer a viable choice.

An example for choices would be to have a tempo build, which gives us talents that allow us to have a faster rotation and the other two options could be a slower but harder hitting build and a mid ranged build which increases the range of all dps abilities. The important part is to have equal overall damage. By aiming to build such options you are pretty much forced to have more synergy in your talent tree.

For the PVP tree there are too many dead talents. The PVP tree should give us the option to make strategic choices in order to counter the comp we face. for example we can pick to have more hp or blunted physical dmg as an option. Why don't we follow this kind of principle then. RET can cleanse poisons for example, then having a choice to cleanse magical dots or bleeds should be an option. So we make meaningful choices depending on the comp we face. I guess many people asked for it already, that our abilities should not be dispellable! At least there should be a talent that acts like a "punishment" for stealing or dispelling. Our abilities should do the opposite when stolen on target. BoFreedom should slow the target, BoP should either stun or increase the dmg taken on target, etc. this would spice up things and give us a meaningful talent..

[Volitar]

Ret is proped up by crusade, no one thought it would turn out to be as strong as it is. Mastery still sucks, Gblessings still suck, and ret has been historically weak. You can't blame anyone for not thinking Ret would do as well as its doing.

[Omaski]

Personally im generally top 4 dps in raids simply because Ret is all I ever play, i know my character and i know how to perform at maximum. I notice a lot of complaints typically come from those who do not truly know the class or the playstyle or Ret is secondary spec or an alt character. Healer support is amazing with Ret. I play both ret and prot and Im least likely to die as fast playing Ret. Most cases im last to die or I end up clutching a boss fight. Like the OP said, if you get the right gear combined with the right player, Ret is very much a viable spec still and can be quite surprising to some. I love playing Ret and to me the spec just keeps getting funner and funner each expac. Once Intervention was gone, i became 100% loyal to Ret and never play anything else unless my Guild needs a fill in tank last moment.

I also have played Ret for 95% of my WoW career but you cant honestly say that you havent noticed any of the issues that plague Rets now? GBlessing are the stupidest thing ever and if you PvP you know how 90% of our "utility" is dispelled/stolen