ACLU sues town of 2,000 over Christmas tree decoration.

[Docturphil]

They're endorsing a specific religion...

I mean it's a just fucking decoration. If people want to get that legalistic about it, then fine I guess. But it's not a huge deal. It's certainly not worth anyone's time and it will not harm our country in any way whatsoever. The only reason anyone even knows about it is because this guy wants money. If this guy really hates Christianity that much then maybe he should just stop being an intolerant fuck.

They could put a Jewish star on top of the tree, or some Atheist symbol or whatever. Who cares?

[Deleted]

Oh that logic.

If the cafeteria in a government building offers pizza, does that mean they are to trying force everyone to eat pizza, or endorsing pizza?

The point of a Christmas Tree, the purpose of "Christmas Vacation", the acknowledgment of this specific day by the government as a day off are all based on religion.

Getting upset about a Cross on top of a Christmas Tree is pretty odd given the overwhelming amount of acknowledgement the government already gives to Christmas.

I am an Atheist by the way, so no religious agenda here.

This just is not true, Christians tried to hijack it, but Christmas has always been about the shortest days of the year, the winter solstice. The Christmas tree comes from the Yule tradition, that Christians also hijacked. The story of Jesus birth predates Christmas by more then a thousand years, not only did the Egyptians had just about the exact same story for the birth of i believe it was Horus, but this same story has been told throughout history, about the three kings visiting ect, it has something to do with 3 stars following another star that disappears from the horizon (moves behind it) for 3 days. The story is more a way of remembering when the solstice was, but the story is not what was being celebrated, the days are getting longer, summer is coming, that is what is being celebrated.

Most of this was done so people could keep track of time, it was an important thing to know, as it told the people when the crops had to be seeded(?sown?). I know it is strange but in reality Christmas has as much to do with Christianity as it has with having hair on your butt. None what so ever, they have done a really good job hijacking it but they just build on a pre existing festival and just gave it another name, it is not like they "invented Christmas".

[TITAN308]

In a government-run college/school or one that is funded by a federal/state agency? No.

In a private school, sure, go nuts.

I agree. /12345

[Deleted]

Which, interestingly enough is also a religious symbol. It represents the star that the wise men followed to find Jesus. I have a feeling this guy wouldn't even be aware of that fact though.

But that isn't religious, that story is much much older then Christianity.

[Docturphil]

But that isn't religious, that story is much much older then Christianity.

Well, yes it is religious. I mean it's a story from the Bible.

[Deleted]

Well, yes it is religious. I mean it's a story from the Bible.

The story is much older then the bible, Christians merely hijacked the story, and the story is not what is celebrated. What is celebrated is the winter solstice.

[Orange Joe]

The US is a Christian nation.

Don't like it? Feel free to leave.

Can you tell me where it says that in the constitution?

[Docturphil]

The story is much older then the bible, Christians merely hijacked the story, and the story is not what is celebrated. What is celebrated is the winter solstice.

Wherever the story originated is entirely irrelevant. What matters is what a star on the top of a Christmas tree represents today. And what it represents today is the star that the wise men followed to find Jesus. That is a religious story found in the Bible. It is therefore a religious symbol.

[Deleted]

If i was the town i'd sell/rent/lease the 1 square meter of ground the tree stands on to some private citizen in town for $1.

[Jagscorpion]

I'm not aware of any provision that says there is a line where it becomes okay to endorse a religion.

Right, the thing they were trying to avoid was establishment, ie... state religion. There is no way that having a Christmas tree in front of a government building would have been seen as establishment by them, sometimes they opened meetings with prayers for goodness sake. But it becomes a slippery slope, so people crack down on the lowest possible form of establishment they can find.

sorry for the abbreviated response, finishing work

[Deleted]

Wherever the story originated is entirely irrelevant. What matters is what a star on the top of a Christmas tree represents today. And what it represents today is the star that the wise men followed to find Jesus. That is a religious story found in the Bible. It is therefore a religious symbol.

No it is not, that only applies to some religious folks. The tree in off its own is a celebration that originated from the Yule traditions that the Christians could not kill off, so they adapted it to their own religion. Do you really think that Christians have something special with a spruce tree??

Even though it is called "Christmas" it has nothing what so ever to do with Christianity. What the star in the tree represents is a star that will go beyond the horizon for 3 days, an actual star, not an imaginary one. That you want to celebrate some guy from 2000 years ago is on you, but this celebration isn't about him, it never was.

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If i was the town i'd sell/rent/lease the 1 square meter of ground the tree stands on to some private citizen in town for $1.

Yea, i'd love that, i would gladly pay 1$ if i could then place my statue of Baphomet there for Christmas.

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Right, the thing they were trying to avoid was establishment, ie... state religion. There is no way that having a Christmas tree in front of a government building would have been seen as establishment by them, sometimes they opened meetings with prayers for goodness sake. But it becomes a slippery slope, so people crack down on the lowest possible form of establishment they can find.

sorry for the abbreviated response, finishing work

There is nothing wrong with the tree, that is not religious, hanging crosses in it is.
And i believe that the only slippery slope here is that they actually start a meeting with prayers at a government institution.

[Deleted]

symbol of Christianity

I mean come on... can we at least attempt to apply some common sense to our lives?

I think we've past the common sense station about 2000 years ago.

Invisible man in the sky cult hipsters doing terrible things since religions' inception.

[Docturphil]

No it is not, that only applies to some religious folks. The tree in off its own is a celebration that originated from the Yule traditions that the Christians could not kill off, so they adapted it to their own religion. Do you really think that Christians have something special with a spruce tree??

Even though it is called "Christmas" it has nothing what so ever to do with Christianity. What the star in the tree represents is a star that will go beyond the horizon for 3 days, an actual star, not an imaginary one. That you want to celebrate some guy from 2000 years ago is on you, but this celebration isn't about him, it never was.

Well I guess google must be wrong then...

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...tree+represent

Every reference to the meaning of a star on top of a Christmas tree that I can find says it represents the Star of Bethlehem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree-t...Origin_and_use

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree

I mean you're just plain wrong. I don't know what else to tell you...

[Deleted]

Well I guess google must be wrong then...

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...tree+represent

Every reference to the meaning of a star on top of a Christmas tree that I can find says it represents the Star of Bethlehem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree-t...Origin_and_use

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree

I mean you're just plain wrong. I don't know what else to tell you...

Oh shocker, you google Christmas and you find an obvious answer.. good for you... Again, that is what it represents in this one religion, a religion that hijacked the whole thing..

Just go and read about ancient civilizations and their believes.. And how the story of those "3 kings" pops up over and over again, and they always die and get resurrected after 3 days, this isn't something that the Christians invented. But i guess you do not want hard evidence that some old book could be wrong.
Just start out with Mithras and there is Osiris and a host of other previous religions that used the exact same tale.

But i guess you cant even be bothered to look up what the Yule feast entails, if you had bothered to look that up you would see how right i am about that tree.. Christians really have nothing with spruce.

Edit

And had you bothered to read your own links then you might have learned the history about the tree.. Use the scroll option, Use the Scroll!! Although it isn't even complete, but htat is wiki for you..

[Docturphil]

Oh shocker, you google Christmas and you find an obvious answer.. good for you... Again, that is what it represents in this one religion, a religion that hijacked the whole thing..

Just go and read about ancient civilizations and their believes.. And how the story of those "3 kings" pops up over and over again, and they always die and get resurrected after 3 days, this isn't something that the Christians invented. But i guess you do not want hard evidence that some old book could be wrong.
Just start out with Mithras and there is Horus and a host of other previous religions that used the exact same tale.

But i guess you cant even be bothered to look up what the Yule feast entails, if you had bothered to look that up you would see how right i am about that tree.. Christians really have nothing with spruce.

For fucks sake, I'm not trying to debate the origins of Christmas, a Christmas tree, or a star on top of a Christmas tree with you. I'm not trying to debate the validity of the Bible.

I am trying to assert that the current up-to-date, most commonly accepted meaning of a star on top of a Christmas tree is that it is a representation of the Star of Bethlehem. I'm not talking about what it meant a thousand years ago. I'm talking about what it means today.

Today, a star on top of a tree is a representation of the Star of Bethlehem. Whether or not that ever happened, or whether or not that meant the same thing 1,000 years ago is entirely irrelevant.

In today's world, a star on top of a Christmas tree is a religious symbol. That's just a fact.

[Deleted]

For fucks sake, I'm not trying to debate the origins of Christmas, a Christmas tree, or a star on top of a Christmas tree with you. I'm not trying to debate the validity of the Bible.

I am trying to assert that the current up-to-date, most commonly accepted meaning of a star on top of a Christmas tree is that it is a representation of the Star of Bethlehem. I'm not talking about what it meant a thousand years ago. I'm talking about what it means today.

Today, a star on top of a tree is a representation of the Star of Bethlehem. Whether or not that ever happened, or whether or not that meant the same thing 1,000 years ago is entirely irrelevant.

In today's world, a star on top of a Christmas tree is a religious symbol. That's just a fact.

You can interpret it as religious, ill give you that. But i find it far more interesting how it came to be then how it is now. Everyone knows what Christians believe, i think it is far more interesting why they believe what they do.

[Bodakane]

Don't ask a stupid question and I would give you a answer. But to answer it, Yes.

So the government infringes the Constitution twice, but I should only care about one, even though neither effect me directly? Interesting.

Not for nothing, but please tell me when you were elected arbiter of what government overreaches we should and shouldn't be concerned with?

I mean what's the difference between the two?

[Dadwen]

They're endorsing a specific religion...

does that mean if they put a pilgrims hat or such up they are endorsing going out slaughtering some Native Americans and eating some Turkey...???

[zEmini]

So the government infringes the Constitution twice, but I should only care about one, even though neither effect me directly? Interesting.

Not for nothing, but please tell me when you were elected arbiter of what government overreaches we should and shouldn't be concerned with?

I mean what's the difference between the two?

Obviously you can't tell the difference between a silly tree ornament and marshal law. Those are some hardcore extremes buddy.

However, local Government break laws all the time. See sanctuary cities.

[apepi]

I would argue that Christmas is not a religious holiday anymore.