People Switching/Rerolling from Demon Hunter

[Pigglix]

I'll keep playing the class as long Fel Rush is part of the dps rotation (and please dont come with the bullshit of "if you choose nemesis you will never use fel rush")

[Deix-EU]

Unless you are a semi-casual raider that is. I can agree with that in Mythic raiding DH might be pretty hard and average. But for HC raiding it is actually quite good. I am constantly in the top 1-2-3 for my opener and I only have Cinidaria, the Symbiote as a legendary so far, not the ring.

Belt for opener is doing far more than the ring, so yeah.

[Resurgo]

All tanks are viable end game. I main Vengeance and doing normal/heroic raids just fine.
...

Unless you misspelled "normal/heroic" from "Mythic", then your perspective on "viable end game" might be slightly off. Don't think anyone really complains about DH at those levels. It's when the stuff gets really hard where the weaknesses shine through a bit more. Not to say it's impossible, but the other tanks tend to be a bit more reliable once you get to those levels. 7.1.5 looks to change that a bit, so there's that.

[Deleted]

I think most people will probably reroll cuz of the momentum nerf making it just viable for AoE/M+, which is kinda sad tbh, I just hope they keep Momentum top on that tier and make Nemesis really close to Momentum, that would make it much better than making it for AoE only.

[Jakkhel]

I was considering rerolling recently, but the idea of having to do all the work it takes to get up to par turned me away from it. My issue with Havoc is that it relies so heavily on Momentum, which is a fun talent but gets frustrating on targets with small hitboxes, or on single target (thankfully 7.1.5 is changing that at least), and how our rotation is almost identical regardless of the fight. It's frustrating when you're progressing to have to find a way to keep Momentum up. An example is on M Il'gynoth - when you're hitting the heart, the corruption around the boss means you have to dash away from the boss, as dashing into the boss will send you flying. It's just not fun.

For many other fights Momentum makes it fun, but there are those few where it's hard to get away with Momentum until the fight is on farm.

[roguetank]

Personally I'm considering rerolling because of 2 reasons:

1) Fel Rush being used strictly for DPS and not mobility, making me feel like the mobility of this class is just an illusion. I'm not just talking momentum either, but even with nemesis and any new specs in 7.1.5, you're always going to be fel rushing for damage because it's free and does too much.

2)I recently got into PVP and DH is laughably bad in any arena bracket, my alt happens to be a monk which does everything 10 times better.

The only reason I haven't completely switched over is because I spent so much time gearing and getting the DH artifact to level 35, and my monk has sat since it dinged 110. So the climb to the point where my DH is, is damn near impossible.

[Crookids]

I would suggest giving Havoc a shot if you enjoyed what little you have seen so far. The biggest thing about Havoc that has kept my interest in maining it is that it's the first spec that has truly remained exciting through each and every boss pull on progression, and I've done progression raiding on several different classes/specs. Where the others became stale pull after pull, with Havoc, it's slightly different every time.

One pull you might have a lot of fury to work with, another maybe not so much so you might have to manage your fury better on the fly. There's reactive gameplay in the spec (yes, sometimes RNG sucks and you'll have a window with no fury) but regardless of how shitty or not shitty that might feel to you, the fact is that it's not the same boring rotation and sequence every pull. The nature of the Momentum playstyle always reassures me that there's always room to improve, that I can always push the ceiling higher with more refinement.

Add to this that we do amazing in Mythic+ due to extremely strong AOE plus a 5 sec instant cast AOE stun, the awesome mobility, double jump, glide, the awesome visuals, huge badass warglaives... Yeah. It's a really fun class and spec to play. Definitely worth giving it a chance and giving yourself enough time to really learn it.

This is basically what draws me to the class. I love my Rogue but I wanted a taste of having good AOE and something that immerses and actually feels like the class. I was so bummed when I came back and they tweaked Assassination to feel even less like an Assasin. It's burst is amazing, I perform at 96+% performance for my ilvl on my parses for fights I should be like Ursog but having to DOT manage is always something I never really liked but dealt with it for rupture. SnD was character so simply managing rupture, MP and energy for maximum uptimes/performance wasn't as bad. Plus mute procs and managing those added a dynamic element. I was still hoping for more immersive based changes but I always liked the fact that I was a Rogue. I'm always drawn to that archeatype. DH is honestly the only other archeatype I am in love with in terms of looks. Plus they have cool QoL, attention and dynamic characteristics.

What's funny is a big reason I'm hesitating is because I heard a few DHs are switching to Rogues. Now we do beast on ST, I mean that's our niche which is why if I swap, having a kind of jack of all trades would at least feel like I wasn't just trading to something too similar. I'm just nervous of making the swap and regretting it which brings me to the next post below.

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Demon Hunters suffer from a few problems. For one their ST damage isn't that impressive unless they have the ring. The class is built around heavy AoE/Cleave, yet there are basically zero encounters currently where that's important. Finally while you can certainly manage it, you have to pay pretty close attention to your movement to maximize your potential, which at times can put you at odds with encounter design. For instance fel rush can be pretty frustrating on bosses like Odyn or Guarm.

If there were more heavy AoE/cleave encounters DH would be valuable. Simply put though their ST damage needs to be toned upwards, even if it's at the cost of a bit of their strengths.

It's also pretty funny that for the most part all of the DH legendary items are about cleave, and aside from the ring barely impact ST damage at all. Talk about doubling down on strengths.

This is basically the 'right' answer and sums up what I've heard and what my fears are.

I am not a flavor of the month player which is why I'm delving so much into making sure I get all the info I can before deciding to switch because when I make something my main -- it's my main PERIOD. Rogue has been my main since Vanilla and I ALWAYS choose that archeatype in games immediately. However, with some transmog being a bit underwhelming, the less attention it gets since it's a less popular class (which makes me like it a bit more frankly) and the apparent refusal to nerf auto attack/poisons and buff energy regeneration (at least) -- I'm considering switching. For the simple fact I've waited so long for changes.

However, I always do and did like that what is Rogues did well we did VERY well. Sure it makes me drool to see our ret pally performing at 99% ilvl performance with ease and can AOE fine, it doesn't make me want to be that class but simply find a class that does the things a Rogue doesn't do well (soloing content, support offspec, AOE damage, dynamic rotation etc) and main that. But if DH is going to stay in the 'jack of all trades, master of none' category then it's going to effect my decision. Anyone with half a brain can see I' e had my share of top 50 guild progression and that I'm not some scrub looking to whine about whatever class he plays. I've purposely went more casual this expansion but that doesn't mean I want to break my behind in raids mastering my class just to have my performance be underwhelming when I could have been a Rogue and helped the guild more on top of not having to retool. (I'll be the only Rogue or only DH depending on my decision so far).

What are the 7.1.5 changes looking like for DHs? Are some of these issues being addressed?

[Deleted]

Somehow, yes. Our single target is getting some attention, but some nerfs to our top performing legendaries are coming aswell.
The former, along with some heavy work on our talent tree, has way more impact on the class than the latter.

A friendly advice: if you love your Rogue, and do so due to the sheer utility and creativity you can apply on the battlefiend, then know that DHs come a little short on that.

[Nergala]

A little short is putting it nicely, we suffer heavily from lack of utility. What we bring is high AoE dmg and medium single target. I love my DH because we do have such good mobility, I dominate the charts in AoE fights in M+ and EN, and the complexity of FR and momentum keep me happy (it's not just using the ability, but knowing where you're gonna land, if you have enough fury, etc).

[Ribesal]

I'll never understand why everyone is saying you'll fel rush on cd for dmg no matter what talents you choose.
There are 3 talents which put Fel Rush into the rotation:
Fel Mastery (Fury + increased DMG)
Momentum (overall increased DMG after FR/VR)
and Demon Baldes (downtimes with nothing else to use than Fel Rush)
If you don't choose atleast one of the talents above, you won't use Fel Rush for dmg on ST. You will use it on AoE, yes, but not on ST

Demon's Bite generates fury and deals roughly 60% - 70% of an unspecced Fel Rush, which also doesn't generate fury. Chaos Strike deals massively more dmg than both, but needs fury. If you proceed to use Fel Rush on cd you will have less Chaos Strikes.
And if you stop using Fel Rush, it's not like that you won't do anything in the meantime (except with demon blades).

This playstyle isn't valuable now (and i like the momentum playstyle much much more), but we will see if it will be in 7.1.5
-----------------------

At the reroll question:
Well, "everyone" is whining about RNG, there comes Demon Blades in count aswell as the absence of the legendary ring. Another part will be the need of dashing around the place, ending up in shit, and dying. If you don't die to this you will be dealing less dmg on ST than everyone else.
I won't reroll, but i guess these are the reasons for other players.

The only thing i hate about momentum is when you use it against Odyn in ToV on mythic...these light balls... damn >_<
After 2-3 hours i don't have the concentration anymore to not constantly dash into these balls

[Firehorse]

I don't dps a lot but since you mentioned energy management, I'll mention there are a lot of posts about resource generation being shit without the legendary ring and class feeling much smoother after the ring. Someone that mains havoc might be able to elaborate on the resource issues better.

The Auto attack talent is Demon's blade. It's the difference between spamming mutilate for CPs or CPs proc'ing from auto attacks. Less control over it, but you keep using your finishers instead of needing to use a global(s) on generating resource. Some hate it, some love it or don't care/see a difference.

Can confirm, it sucks pretty bad with out the ring. More often than not you're ok with out it but you have zero hopes of ever posting a competitive log with out it and the belt.

Also its not uncommon for the proc rate on DB to just fuck you completely, in those times the extra fury from the proc would be a god send.

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I main a Rogue. Have so since vanilla/BC but the lack of changes in which I find fun has started to frustrate me. DOT up-time, the continued emphases on poison damage and auto-attack instead of more energy management etc.

This has brought me to a place of enjoying raiding with my Rogue but wanting to start working towards a new main. Enter the Demon Hunter.

I have had a ton of fun in Vengeance and I liked Havoc the little I played. I know Vengeance isn't viable in end-game but I likely won't take any raids outside of LFR and pugs. But I am hearing a lot of people that mained DH since the expansion launch are now moving away from the class.

Can someone fill me in as to why so many Havoc DHs seem to want to roll a different class? Is it the rotation and emphases on auto-attack talent choices? I guess this seems to be more of a high-end raiding player's decision as most that do not raid to parse like that take the talents that are most fun. However, if I am going to spend a ton of time catching up another toon -- I would like to be caught up with the issues.

Whoever told you vengeance isn't viable end game is massively mistaken. They bring some of the best utility you can get with double aoe interrupt, range interrupt, chain pull and double jump. Healers will bitch because they don't know how to heal them but once your team gets comfortable with the ebb and flow of their self heals they become pretty easy to keep up.

Where they really shine end game is real OH SHIT moments. A DH tank will survive through damn near anything with spikes, Meta, brand that would normally one shot any other tank in the game. I've had 885 prots picking their mouth up off the floor while I solo tank a triple add buffed Renferal with out droping below 30% HP

[Soulfròst]

This is basically what draws me to the class. I love my Rogue but I wanted a taste of having good AOE and something that immerses and actually feels like the class. I was so bummed when I came back and they tweaked Assassination to feel even less like an Assasin. It's burst is amazing, I perform at 96+% performance for my ilvl on my parses for fights I should be like Ursog but having to DOT manage is always something I never really liked but dealt with it for rupture. SnD was character so simply managing rupture, MP and energy for maximum uptimes/performance wasn't as bad. Plus mute procs and managing those added a dynamic element. I was still hoping for more immersive based changes but I always liked the fact that I was a Rogue. I'm always drawn to that archeatype. DH is honestly the only other archeatype I am in love with in terms of looks. Plus they have cool QoL, attention and dynamic characteristics.

What's funny is a big reason I'm hesitating is because I heard a few DHs are switching to Rogues. Now we do beast on ST, I mean that's our niche which is why if I swap, having a kind of jack of all trades would at least feel like I wasn't just trading to something too similar. I'm just nervous of making the swap and regretting it which brings me to the next post below.

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This is basically the 'right' answer and sums up what I've heard and what my fears are.

I am not a flavor of the month player which is why I'm delving so much into making sure I get all the info I can before deciding to switch because when I make something my main -- it's my main PERIOD. Rogue has been my main since Vanilla and I ALWAYS choose that archeatype in games immediately. However, with some transmog being a bit underwhelming, the less attention it gets since it's a less popular class (which makes me like it a bit more frankly) and the apparent refusal to nerf auto attack/poisons and buff energy regeneration (at least) -- I'm considering switching. For the simple fact I've waited so long for changes.

However, I always do and did like that what is Rogues did well we did VERY well. Sure it makes me drool to see our ret pally performing at 99% ilvl performance with ease and can AOE fine, it doesn't make me want to be that class but simply find a class that does the things a Rogue doesn't do well (soloing content, support offspec, AOE damage, dynamic rotation etc) and main that. But if DH is going to stay in the 'jack of all trades, master of none' category then it's going to effect my decision. Anyone with half a brain can see I' e had my share of top 50 guild progression and that I'm not some scrub looking to whine about whatever class he plays. I've purposely went more casual this expansion but that doesn't mean I want to break my behind in raids mastering my class just to have my performance be underwhelming when I could have been a Rogue and helped the guild more on top of not having to retool. (I'll be the only Rogue or only DH depending on my decision so far).

What are the 7.1.5 changes looking like for DHs? Are some of these issues being addressed?

I would suggest, just so you don't feel like you went all in without knowing enough, to focus on your DH as a "main alt" since you most likely are at a bit of a ceiling on your Rogue like most everyone is on their mains right now, outside of spamming Mythic+. This way you can get a feel for the class, find what you like, notice whatever you may not like, and judge accordingly before making a decision?

[Aurega]

This is basically the 'right' answer and sums up what I've heard and what my fears are.

I am not a flavor of the month player which is why I'm delving so much into making sure I get all the info I can before deciding to switch because when I make something my main -- it's my main PERIOD. Rogue has been my main since Vanilla and I ALWAYS choose that archeatype in games immediately. However, with some transmog being a bit underwhelming, the less attention it gets since it's a less popular class (which makes me like it a bit more frankly) and the apparent refusal to nerf auto attack/poisons and buff energy regeneration (at least) -- I'm considering switching. For the simple fact I've waited so long for changes.

However, I always do and did like that what is Rogues did well we did VERY well. Sure it makes me drool to see our ret pally performing at 99% ilvl performance with ease and can AOE fine, it doesn't make me want to be that class but simply find a class that does the things a Rogue doesn't do well (soloing content, support offspec, AOE damage, dynamic rotation etc) and main that. But if DH is going to stay in the 'jack of all trades, master of none' category then it's going to effect my decision. Anyone with half a brain can see I' e had my share of top 50 guild progression and that I'm not some scrub looking to whine about whatever class he plays. I've purposely went more casual this expansion but that doesn't mean I want to break my behind in raids mastering my class just to have my performance be underwhelming when I could have been a Rogue and helped the guild more on top of not having to retool. (I'll be the only Rogue or only DH depending on my decision so far).

What are the 7.1.5 changes looking like for DHs? Are some of these issues being addressed?

So far on live without the ring, there's no way we can even get close to rogues and warriors in terms of DPS in raids.

And as for now, none of your concerns are addressed. They buffed chaos strike slightly, but it barely makes up for the nerfs we've suffered elsewhere. In addition, if you go a single target build now (fel blade over fel mastery, and nemesis over momemtum), our cleave damage will be severely crippled. Just so we can have a chance to catching up with other classes if we got the legendaries. I can safely tell you that currently on PTR, if you don't have the ring or shoulders, you don't stand a chance to compete against other classes in terms of single target DPS, and our cleave is nowhere near as strong as it is on live. (in fact, i do around 7% less damage on ptr with my current 885 ilvl gear on dummies). Also we get fury starved significantly more from both the nerf to fury generation and nerf to crit. I feel they balanced our class around having 4 set nighthold gear and maybe the ring.

It also seems blizzard are balancing the game around Mythic+ more than raids, and being an aoe class we will have to suffer in raids. The best part about DH is the momentum playstyle for me, so much fun zipping around and having to focus on other stuff rather than energy regen or dot timers.

But yes, I'm rerolling either rogue or priest if there aren't any significant changes to DHs next patch, as I'm afraid I will lose my mythic raid spot if i keep playing this class.

[Crookids]

So far on live without the ring, there's no way we can even get close to rogues and warriors in terms of DPS in raids.

And as for now, none of your concerns are addressed. They buffed chaos strike slightly, but it barely makes up for the nerfs we've suffered elsewhere. In addition, if you go a single target build now (fel blade over fel mastery, and nemesis over momemtum), our cleave damage will be severely crippled. Just so we can have a chance to catching up with other classes if we got the legendaries. I can safely tell you that currently on PTR, if you don't have the ring or shoulders, you don't stand a chance to compete against other classes in terms of single target DPS, and our cleave is nowhere near as strong as it is on live. (in fact, i do around 7% less damage on ptr with my current 885 ilvl gear on dummies). Also we get fury starved significantly more from both the nerf to fury generation and nerf to crit. I feel they balanced our class around having 4 set nighthold gear and maybe the ring.

It also seems blizzard are balancing the game around Mythic+ more than raids, and being an aoe class we will have to suffer in raids. The best part about DH is the momentum playstyle for me, so much fun zipping around and having to focus on other stuff rather than energy regen or dot timers.

But yes, I'm rerolling either rogue or priest if there aren't any significant changes to DHs next patch, as I'm afraid I will lose my mythic raid spot if i keep playing this class.

I've read everyone's replies and really appreciate the input. If I don't quote you -- I still may be replying to your comment.

I think this is where I'll stand for now. I LOVEEE tanking on my DH. I mean, I haven't had this much fun tanking in a while and I've played all the tank classes except Monk. I'm at 845 in Vengeance albeit my secondaries are all over the place. St least Vengeance benefits from most secondaries nicely but I will be focusing on a DPS tank (crib and mastery) at 860+. I think what I'll do is keep my Rogue as a main but keep my DH updates since I enjoy it so much and keep him for straight mythic+ tanking. Since the secondaries for a DPS tank is the same for Havoc, if they do see a nice buff where they become close or on par to my Rogue -- it will be easy for me (relatively easy) to make the swap.

I think I can get mighty close to my Rogue just doing M+ dungeons, LFR and premade raids (possible heroics). The silver lining is tanking is always a great way to learn encounters so it will only further my knowledge for my main. I've always been solid but I like knowing different roles as it makes a difference. Even though we're semi-casual since I swapped from competitive due to lack of time, the guild is a talented bunch. We're 3/7 mythic several weeks ago with just 6 hours a week. The roster is almost fully rebuilt since the split so when my Rogue is doing mythic whipes and edges ahead of my DH, I'll really be able to judge where I stand given I hopefully grab the better legendaries for my Rogue also.

However, if I get lucky on my DH and my first 1-2 leg procs are the BIS ones, making the swap will be a no brained. Yeah, I guess just playing both like this is probably the safer bet.

[Aurega]

Exactly, my rogue and priest got the BIS legendaries for their specs, which is part of the reason why switching to them seems to attractive for me now. Especially since they are both caught up with artifact research (4 days behind main).


Oh, Vengeance seems strong, but since I rarely play that spec I can't really talk much about it.

On the bright side, it seems they buffed all DH abilities across the board, but I'm not sure that will be enough to put the class in a stable spot. To me they don't even make up for the nerfs we're getting.

[Librasun]

I have had a ton of fun in Vengeance and I liked Havoc the little I played. I know Vengeance isn't viable in end-game but I likely won't take any raids outside of LFR and pugs.

You obviously donno shit, cheers

[Miyamoto]

I went from WW, to mage . . . and I hate it, I wanted to roll DH from the start, but was told there are so many and it would be hard trying to raid. Especially in an already melee heavy expansion, but as somebody who as recently rerolled and is about to reroll again and be ready for nighthold....DPS will come man, just find something you enjoy.

[Super Kami Dende]

I've hit a point where DH for me went for non-interest during Beta to now my Main after leveling 2 other 110's first.

DH is just too fun to play regardless of the Numbers they produce.

[Crookids]

You obviously donno shit, cheers

Nice fallacy. It's infinitely more productive to make your point as opposed to making assumptions. Especially since this entire thread was created so I can ask questions and gather information about the class. That's like someone asking you a question and your answer is "you don't know shit". Well, obviously...

Nevertheless, the problem with Vengeance DH with Mythic raiding is that the player needs to know the class well and the healers need to know how to heal a DH tank. With other tanking classes having much more streamlined mitigation and a lower learning curve, it's much more viable to progress with a different tanking class such as Warrior or Druid. At least that's what every competitive guild I have spoken to has told me.

Perhaps stating 'isn't viable end-game' was a bit broad for what I meant -- but the context is accurate. Outside of farm, DH tank isn't as viable as other tanking classes when it comes to progression. This is fact.

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I went from WW, to mage . . . and I hate it, I wanted to roll DH from the start, but was told there are so many and it would be hard trying to raid. Especially in an already melee heavy expansion, but as somebody who as recently rerolled and is about to reroll again and be ready for nighthold....DPS will come man, just find something you enjoy.

I wouldn't worry so much about this. People playing DH seems to be dying down a bit and getting a DH that knows his class is harder to come by then someone who doesn't. I see plenty of guilds recruiting melee DPS on my realm, albeit I am on a high pop Horde dominant one (Mal'Ganis).

Although, if you're looking to get into high progression guilds, then it might be a bit tougher. However, I've found that the best way to do that is to look on WoWProgress and cross-realm app to whoever needs a DH. Again, that's if you're looking to be in an established guild that is progressing competitively. At least from my experience.

[Nfinitii]

I main a Rogue. Have so since vanilla/BC but the lack of changes in which I find fun has started to frustrate me. DOT up-time, the continued emphases on poison damage and auto-attack instead of more energy management etc.

This has brought me to a place of enjoying raiding with my Rogue but wanting to start working towards a new main. Enter the Demon Hunter.

I have had a ton of fun in Vengeance and I liked Havoc the little I played. I know Vengeance isn't viable in end-game but I likely won't take any raids outside of LFR and pugs. But I am hearing a lot of people that mained DH since the expansion launch are now moving away from the class.

Can someone fill me in as to why so many Havoc DHs seem to want to roll a different class? Is it the rotation and emphases on auto-attack talent choices? I guess this seems to be more of a high-end raiding player's decision as most that do not raid to parse like that take the talents that are most fun. However, if I am going to spend a ton of time catching up another toon -- I would like to be caught up with the issues.

I enjoy the dh, but imo the most annoying thing about them is the fury generation. Demons blades is the best talent and is very inconsistent but I'm not a huge fan of demons bite either. Fel Rush make the class very fun but can be kind of annoying on bosses. They do a ton of aoe damage. But I'm not a fan of how long a cd meta is. I also hate how chaos nova costs fury since our fury generation is kind of wonky.