World quest irrelevant

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

So wq are not going to scale anymore which means after 850 there is really no more reason to do them..they need to raise cap..I'm just speaking about gear..nothing else..that's just sad.

When you can no longer get upgrades from starter zone quests, you don't expect them to raise cap on starter zone loot - you move on to more challenging content. The harder the content, the better the gear. If you are geared so well that WQs offer no upgrades, it's time to take on bigger challenges!

Broken Shore will offer more challenging quests and probably better gear for a bit. Meanwhile I am 880, raiding, tanking M+ 10s & 12s, but I still do WQs every day for artifact power. Because artifact power is the surest way to progress your character under the current model.

[Gen4Glock21]

So wq are not going to scale anymore which means after 850 there is really no more reason to do them..they need to raise cap..I'm just speaking about gear..nothing else..that's just sad.

I have collected 6 legendaries so far, spread across 4 characters doing WQ.

[Vynny]

I'll take the AP

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

That's your opinion, I personally think it should be more rewarding as it is personal skill and commitment involved.

In summary - you are incorrect that one is more deserving than the other.

The key here though is ensuring the same level of effort, not some biased preference over the type of content.

When they offer world quests as challenging as raids and M+, they should offer gear to match. Gear rewards should always reflect the difficulty of challenge necessary to obtain it. Under the current model, Blizz makes outdoor questing content much easier (casual-friendly) than raids or M+. World quests are doable even if you don't understand your spec or have an old computer with lag spikes. They are intended to be doable by those who can't handle instances. The content in instances is set aside so you don't get frustrated if you can't do those things yet. My guild mate's 5yo does world quests.

Show me a world quest as challenging as tyrannical Melandrus and I'll agree it should drop the same loot.

[SirCowdog]

try think ahead for a moment.

Let's assume that World quests - Raids - Dungeons provide the same gear at the same time rate.

Someone is bound to come & say what's the point of raiding if I can get all the gear I want from quests

And that person would be overly focusing on gear as the only reason for playing, which it's not. It might be THEIR only reason for playing, but that doesn't mean other people couldn't find enjoyment somewhere else. Take Mythic raiders, for example. Do you think that the only reason they push the limits of their skill is to get mythic gear?

Furthermore, if gear was obtainable from any source(raiding, M+, challenging WQs), that just means that people would focus less on the gear and actually on what they enjoy playing.

Only way I would agree to getting gear from solo play is if they created a solo dungeon that is very very hard. i.e. greater rift in diablo 3. Then it's possible to do what you are suggestion.

I'm actually ok with this idea. They could do instances, as you suggest, or they could use phasing to get it done equally well.

World quest once again is a nono to get optimal gear.

Can I point out that it's entirely possible to get a BiS legendary item, that you'll probably never replace the rest of the expansion, from doing WQs.

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Raiding on mythic level require SKILL & TEAMWORK.

no teamwork is involved in solo content. Thus your argument is invalid

The fallacy here is in assuming that anything that requires teamwork will always be more difficult or challenging that something that doesn't require it. In many ways soloing requires more skill, on an individual level, than any single raider needs. When soloing you're the only one responsible for healing, for executing any and all mechanics, and there's no one to back you up or cover if you make mistakes.

It is VERY possible that a solo player can face content which challenges their skill and ability far more than any one single raider ever faces, even in a complex raid environment.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

So wq are not going to scale anymore which means after 850 there is really no more reason to do them..they need to raise cap..I'm just speaking about gear..nothing else..that's just sad.

Speaking as someone who has several titanforged WQ items across several characters, ranging from 860-880...they're fine.

[procne]

I think that WQs shouldn't scale anymore (well, maybe later if we really need catch-up mechanic, but I have never been a fan of those). It doesn't feel right when solo content can replace gearing up from raids / mythics like that. I think it would be better if WQs somehow "supported" raids and mythics, instead of replacing them. For example rewarding seals of broken fate (or some parts that can be combined into one). Or those runes that add 325 of a stat. Or maybe even those raid / mythic quests you can get from class hall missions. Or some tokens to upgrade / refresh mythic keystone.

[Flurryfang]

Wonder why this garbage response needs to be brought up every time in threads like this.

The whole gist of mmo's is developing your character and making it more powerful. That's why. Not a hard concept to understand at all. If you don't do mythic+ or raiding, you just can't gear up anymore. All you can do is twiddle your fingers afterwards, which is hardly enough to keep people subbed.

Or you could... Like you know... Do the stuff, which gives the better gear. When you hit a gear max, then you are supposed to either do other stuff, which have nothing to do with gear or push yourself to do more stuff, which gives higher gear.

The argument used is still quite valid, since most of the game is designed at bringing you some kind of challenge and reward you for overcoming that challenge. Gear is that main resourse of reward and that is how the system have been for many years, and worked quite well.

[schwarzkopf]

When they offer world quests as challenging as raids and M+,

They already do - World quests are on a par with normal raids (in terms of individual effort).

All that is left is how much time is invested, that's where the WF system comes in.

[Flurryfang]

I think that WQs shouldn't scale anymore (well, maybe later if we really need catch-up mechanic, but I have never been a fan of those). It doesn't feel right when solo content can replace gearing up from raids / mythics like that. I think it would be better if WQs somehow "supported" raids and mythics, instead of replacing them. For example rewarding seals of broken fate (or some parts that can be combined into one). Or those runes that add 325 of a stat. Or maybe even those raid / mythic quests you can get from class hall missions. Or some tokens to upgrade / refresh mythic keystone.

It would be great, if you could design which rewards you got. Your idea is pretty good when it comes to the seals and runes, because they would actually be quite usefull to get as a raider. I understand the problems, that some mythic/heroic raiders have, when they see WQs reward give gear, which is far from usefull and is really just a waste.

If we could design our WQs a bit more, like choosing if you want raid support rewards, leveling/gearing rewards and consumeable/crafting resourses.

[Armourboy]

Or you could... Like you know... Do the stuff, which gives the better gear. When you hit a gear max, then you are supposed to either do other stuff, which have nothing to do with gear or push yourself to do more stuff, which gives higher gear.

The argument used is still quite valid, since most of the game is designed at bringing you some kind of challenge and reward you for overcoming that challenge. Gear is that main resourse of reward and that is how the system have been for many years, and worked quite well.

While I understand where you are coming from and generally agree, at the end of the day this and most MMORPG's are about character progression. When people run out of progression they quit. Some people do not like to raid, its always been that way, so if that is your only means to progress and you don't enjoy it then there isn't much reason to play.

This is the problem Blizzard has gotten itself into with easy leveling and even quicker gearing up. It used to take some time to even get raid ready, now it takes a couple weeks at best.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

They already do - World quests are on a par with normal raids (in terms of individual effort).

All that is left is how much time is invested, that's where the WF system comes in.

Maybe the ones on Wardens Island, or the ones inside Suramar City, IF you are soloing. Soloing those is about like normal raiding in terms of difficulty. I could support 850 gear for those if you run them solo, or 840 if you complete them in a group.

All other world quests are closer to normal dungeons and should never offer more than 825 imho.

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While I understand where you are coming from and generally agree, at the end of the day this and most MMORPG's are about character progression. When people run out of progression they quit. Some people do not like to raid, its always been that way, so if that is your only means to progress and you don't enjoy it then there isn't much reason to play.

This is the problem Blizzard has gotten itself into with easy leveling and even quicker gearing up. It used to take some time to even get raid ready, now it takes a couple weeks at best.

There are two parts to progression: taking on bigger challenges and earning bigger rewards. They go together. Want to do progression? Do something more challenging.

When raiders talk about progression, we are referring to the kind of content where we wipe many times before finally earning our reward. Sounds like you are only talking about kicking acorns and collecting loot - no offense, but hopefully you see what I mean.

I wonder if players who don't like to raid would welcome outdoor content that was truly as difficult as raiding? To earn those rewards? Because there are a lot of casual players doing these world quests who have neither the skill, dedication, or computer setup to attempt those kinds of challenges. Not saying that all casual players lack skill; I understand that many are former raiders who have backed off and only play casually these days. I'm certainly not suggesting they aren't wonderful people - my guild mate's 5yo son is adorable and he does world quests. But outdoor content has always been tuned for players who weren't able to do instances, and the rewards tuned accordingly.

[Flurryfang]

While I understand where you are coming from and generally agree, at the end of the day this and most MMORPG's are about character progression. When people run out of progression they quit. Some people do not like to raid, its always been that way, so if that is your only means to progress and you don't enjoy it then there isn't much reason to play.

This is the problem Blizzard has gotten itself into with easy leveling and even quicker gearing up. It used to take some time to even get raid ready, now it takes a couple weeks at best.

I agree with you that the game is about player progression, but if you don't look for challenge, then gear should not be the progression area.

Blizzard should make it so that you can have meaningfull progression outside of harder difficulty, but then that progression can not be centered around better gear, because it devalues the gain of the people, who take down harder content and in the end, makes it harder to justify going the extra mile when it comes to taking down content.

[procne]

There used to be a solo-content progression. The Grind.
The only alternative I see is for Blizzard to design solo dungeons, which are challenging for a single player. That would take a whole lot of balancing and turning WoW into a single player game even more. Whether it's good or bad, Blizzard might consider this if it meant retaining more players in the game and it might be financially viable if there's a lot of players, who would like this.

I think a better solution would be for people to find some nice friendly guild to have people to play with. WoW is a lot better game when you have some friendly people with you.

[Glorious Leader]

Maybe the ones on Wardens Island, or the ones inside Suramar City, IF you are soloing. Soloing those is about like normal raiding in terms of difficulty. I could support 850 gear for those if you run them solo, or 840 if you complete them in a group.

All other world quests are closer to normal dungeons and should never offer more than 825 imho.

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There are two parts to progression: taking on bigger challenges and earning bigger rewards. They go together. Want to do progression? Do something more challenging.

When raiders talk about progression, we are referring to the kind of content where we wipe many times before finally earning our reward. Sounds like you are only talking about kicking acorns and collecting loot - no offense, but hopefully you see what I mean.

I wonder if players who don't like to raid would welcome outdoor content that was truly as difficult as raiding? To earn those rewards? Because there are a lot of casual players doing these world quests who have neither the skill, dedication, or computer setup to attempt those kinds of challenges. Not saying that all casual players lack skill; I understand that many are former raiders who have backed off and only play casually these days. I'm certainly not suggesting they aren't wonderful people - my guild mate's 5yo son is adorable and he does world quests. But outdoor content has always been tuned for players who weren't able to do instances, and the rewards tuned accordingly.

Thats rich. Okay fine. Its not ablut gear its about wiping your face off. I propose we remove gear from mythic raids andnput it behind mythic raidd. That way theirs no possibility of you overgearing content, you can wipe to your hearts content and wq people can get gear they want.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Thats rich. Okay fine. Its not ablut gear its about wiping your face off. I propose we remove gear from mythic raids andnput it behind mythic raidd. That way theirs no possibility of you overgearing content, you can wipe to your hearts content and wq people can get gear they want.

Not what I said at all. I said challenge and reward go together. If you want better gear, you take on bigger challenges. EARN IT.

[Glorious Leader]

I agree with you that the game is about player progression, but if you don't look for challenge, then gear should not be the progression area.

Blizzard should make it so that you can have meaningfull progression outside of harder difficulty, but then that progression can not be centered around better gear, because it devalues the gain of the people, who take down harder content and in the end, makes it harder to justify going the extra mile when it comes to taking down content.

Uhhh no. Lets flip this around. Mythic raiding devalues wq and every other form of content in the game. It devalues the gain of people at the bottom end of the content because it quite clearly robs them of any illusion that theyre actually good at this game.

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Not what I said at all. I said challenge and reward go together. If you want better gear, you take on bigger challenges. EARN IT.

In wow the two are mutually exclusive. The reward by default decreases the challenge. All youre arguing for is the removal of gear from mythic.

As for "earning it" i find that quite rich as well. Earning it is really just a code word for mythic raiding only please. The whine about being forcd to run mythic+ and asking for it to be neutered proves that.

[procne]

Not what I said at all. I said challenge and reward go together. If you want better gear, you take on bigger challenges. EARN IT.

Because reward that takes no effort has no value. It's just a baseline. (not arguing the quoted post, just "reinforcing" and extending)
Just like ilvl 840 is now a baseline gear for a new char because it can easily get it from world quests within a week. Making WQ rewards scale higher will only increase this baseline. In the end progress from WQ will end almost as quickly as now

[Lime]

Yes because that's always such a great idea. Forcing players into content they don't enjoy.

Lol? Why do you need better gear if you're just going to do World Quests?

The World Quests already provide you with rewards that make them trivial. Better gear at that point would be to help your progression in Mythic Keystone or Raiding, both of which you just implied you aren't interested in.

Hell, you already have a TF system which can give you 895's from WQs should you get lucky.

[Glorious Leader]

The better solution is to decrease the gap by increasing the reward from wq, removing gear from mythic and offering a much smaller ilvl increase between difficulties. In other words combat ilvl inflation. That way wqs are more rewarding and who gives a shit about mythic raiders. To be frank under the bus is where they belong.

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Because reward that takes no effort has no value. It's just a baseline. (not arguing the quoted post, just "reinforcing" and extending)
Just like ilvl 840 is now a baseline gear for a new char because it can easily get it from world quests within a week. Making WQ rewards scale higher will only increase this baseline. In the end progress from WQ will end almost as quickly as now

If only. With their current rng obsession this is simple not the case. Have you ever tried to gear uo exclusively from wq?