What are your current criticisms with Rift

[Ahovv]

Just dropping in to inform you all that watching a Top Three Guild clearing Dungeons is like watching Method clearing Maw of Souls but carry on...

http://www.topofrift.com/guild/khalim'na-_-brisesol

Irrelevant. I ran experts on release for every version of Rift (other than Starfall Prophecy). Vanilla/SL were 100x harder hitting than this shit, relative to health pools. You had people crying in general chat that the tanks were keeling over and the only way to pug some of them was to run two healers.

Are you *actually* trying to suggest the player skill is somehow what is making the dungeon run possible with 2k hps for most of the encounter? Really? Are you that fucking stupid?

I guess since you're trying to make a "world 3rd" Rift guild relevant, my own accomplishments in Rift should matter as well, right? And I'm saying the dungeons in Starfall Prophecy are a disgrace, with nowhere near enough damage to be considered challenging in any way.

This is literally the pinnacle of content in the expansion at this point, and it's a complete faceroll. People are waiting on even INFORMATION for the upcoming raid, which is limited to 10-mans at this point. There is nothing to do, and there won't even be challenging content. If this 5-man is tuned like this, only a fool would expect the upcoming 10-man (whenever it releases, probably months from now) to be a challenge.

Trion decided to milk the casuals in Rift, but they don't have any compelling casual content. You know, something that Runescape has, or even Ragnarok Online, Tree of Savior etc. Even artifact hunting was ruined when it became just another surgical grind with a tracking vial. What's the casual content in Rift? IAs? Yeah, how long does that last you before it's mind-numbingly boring? 30 minutes? Chronicles? Is that really a game worth playing every day?

[Slipmat]

**stuff**

It bothers you exactly how? you're not even playing Rift so why should the direction the game is going or heading to concern you?

[theWocky]

Just dropping in to inform you all that watching a Top Three Guild clearing Dungeons is like watching Method clearing Maw of Souls but carry on...

http://www.topofrift.com/guild/khalim'na-_-brisesol

You're saying because it's a top guild, they breezed through it?
When the BIS gear is available to everyone in the game right now within a week or two (we've had three)

Um, no. If you're struggling with any content in Starfall Prophecy after you have 1800 hit (in greens), you are just bad.

Everyone knows me in the guild as the guy who likes 3 button specs and I "only" play the easiest melee (shaman) and ranged spec (defiler aka whack-a-mole) - coincidently, they also do awesome dps, but you know what? Clearing the first dungeon on PTS - without knowing tactics was dead easy. We figured it out. No videos to watch. Nothing.

Every single dungeon - except for the rehash / upscaled one is slap-dash, boring.
Heck, from what one guy said, they even used assets from outside the world - as in used part of the world and just instanced it.

You know what changed since they made the dungeon harder by upping boss health by 20% - the dungeons take 20% longer. That is all.

We get it that the studio is operating on a skeleton staff.
We get it that they're doing their best, but to compare any of those encounters to the first dungeon I experienced in another MMO a few nights back? Not in the same class.
I think the RIFT devs are a passionate bunch, but they are not in the same league they were in 2013/2014

They may never be. They simply lack the manpower which is why we're seeing MORE GRIND and LESS CONTENT.

The issue with RIFT loyalists /or people who don't get out of their "zone" is they don't see how the "opposition" is actually better value for money and entertainment.

I don't hate RIFT. I just get tired with Trion, their fans misrepresenting the game.

In about three months, when 4.1 actually gets released WITH THE CONTENT ORIGINALLY PROMISED IN THIS EXPANSION, is patched, bosses don't cause the WHOLE GAME TO CRASH, bug free and classes, weapon procs, legendary abilities are fixed and balanced, then maybe the game will be worth US$40. I am hoping they finally do the right thing and bundle the essentials pack and expansion together for new players because at that time it will be worth US$40, but not US$90 which is what it costs now.


ps. I'm in a World #11 guild. I guess that's why my 3 button specs reign supreme.

Just the other day, I completed a current "end game" world first!
I got some random fishing achievement.
(drowning in content - just like the promised plat)

[Eleccybubb]

It bothers you exactly how? you're not even playing Rift so why should the direction the game is going or heading to concern you?

Because I made this thread for former and current players who want to express their issues with the game. A lot of people here are former players who would gladly come back if the game improved and the design direction as well. Nobody here hates Rift as we have said. We do not like the direction of the game at the moment as well as the devs design choices.

http://forums.riftgame.com/general-d...ml#post5266667

This thread alone that @Lythelia made shows a lot of disdain within the community. Even people who are well known for defending the game have posted their issues in that thread. This is basically a mirror of it but I decided to save someone the trouble of doing so all over again.

[Edge-]

It bothers you exactly how? you're not even playing Rift so why should the direction the game is going or heading to concern you?

I see this argument from WoW fans trying to dismiss any criticism from ex-players.

Believe it or not, even for those of us who don't actively play the game right now, plenty of us still love the game. We may be very out of love with it in its current form and with how Trion has been handling it, but we still care about the game and want to be able to enjoy it the way we used to.

We're critical because we see a product that we used to hold in such high esteem stumbling and making painfully easy to avoid mistakes. We're critical because we see an expansion that had the chance to turn things around after the rough go that NT was, and we're seeing it underdeliver across the board. Especially in terms of the one aspect that they touted the most given the return to paid expansions - polish and quality. It's super obvious this expansion needs months of additional work to get it into a remotely decent shape in terms of overall balance (which is a nightmare from everything I'm reading both on the class front and in dungeons, as we're discussing), things actually working (they've had to delay features that they indicated would be in at launch and are still having problems getting all the content they launched with working), and polish in general (it's obvious that they did not have time to do serious polish passes).

And that's disappointing as shit, because for many of us it means we're missing out on an expansion (the last time I blindly threw money at Trion was Defiance, which I knew was a mistake but did anyways, and given that I'm no longer a Trion fanboy won't happen again) for what used to be one of the best MMO's on the market, but has fallen very, very far.

We still care. We still want the game to get better. We still want to fall back in love with the game the way many of us used to love it.

That's why we're critical.

[Eleccybubb]

I see this argument from WoW fans trying to dismiss any criticism from ex-players.

Believe it or not, even for those of us who don't actively play the game right now, plenty of us still love the game. We may be very out of love with it in its current form and with how Trion has been handling it, but we still care about the game and want to be able to enjoy it the way we used to.

We're critical because we see a product that we used to hold in such high esteem stumbling and making painfully easy to avoid mistakes. We're critical because we see an expansion that had the chance to turn things around after the rough go that NT was, and we're seeing it underdeliver across the board. Especially in terms of the one aspect that they touted the most given the return to paid expansions - polish and quality. It's super obvious this expansion needs months of additional work to get it into a remotely decent shape in terms of overall balance (which is a nightmare from everything I'm reading both on the class front and in dungeons, as we're discussing), things actually working (they've had to delay features that they indicated would be in at launch and are still having problems getting all the content they launched with working), and polish in general (it's obvious that they did not have time to do serious polish passes).

And that's disappointing as shit, because for many of us it means we're missing out on an expansion (the last time I blindly threw money at Trion was Defiance, which I knew was a mistake but did anyways, and given that I'm no longer a Trion fanboy won't happen again) for what used to be one of the best MMO's on the market, but has fallen very, very far.

We still care. We still want the game to get better. We still want to fall back in love with the game the way many of us used to love it.

That's why we're critical.

THIS THIS THIS. So goddamn much. Nobody here is criticising the game out of spite. They are criticising it because they want it to get better.

- - - Updated - - -

Just looking at that Top of Rift thing. Only 27 guilds completed the Comet of Ahnket on Normal and 22 on hard. That is kind of dire for raiding as a whole. And 34 have killed at least the first boss. I refuse to believe that is just difficulty.

[Selah]

It bothers you exactly how? you're not even playing Rift so why should the direction the game is going or heading to concern you?

Maybe because they like the game? It's not exactly complicated as to why they would care. I haven't bought SFP and am not currently logging in but it doesn't mean what's going on with Rift doesn't concern me. In fact, the opposite is true, I am very much concerned about the game and want to see it do well. That's why I'm on forums, or going to the live chat that Wocky is doing this weekend. It's why I'm pushing so hard for the devs to communicate more. If I didn't care I wouldn't engage, I have far better things I could be doing with my time then posting on forums.

[Lathais]

I see this argument from WoW fans trying to dismiss any criticism from ex-players.

Believe it or not, even for those of us who don't actively play the game right now, plenty of us still love the game. We may be very out of love with it in its current form and with how Trion has been handling it, but we still care about the game and want to be able to enjoy it the way we used to.

We're critical because we see a product that we used to hold in such high esteem stumbling and making painfully easy to avoid mistakes. We're critical because we see an expansion that had the chance to turn things around after the rough go that NT was, and we're seeing it underdeliver across the board. Especially in terms of the one aspect that they touted the most given the return to paid expansions - polish and quality. It's super obvious this expansion needs months of additional work to get it into a remotely decent shape in terms of overall balance (which is a nightmare from everything I'm reading both on the class front and in dungeons, as we're discussing), things actually working (they've had to delay features that they indicated would be in at launch and are still having problems getting all the content they launched with working), and polish in general (it's obvious that they did not have time to do serious polish passes).

And that's disappointing as shit, because for many of us it means we're missing out on an expansion (the last time I blindly threw money at Trion was Defiance, which I knew was a mistake but did anyways, and given that I'm no longer a Trion fanboy won't happen again) for what used to be one of the best MMO's on the market, but has fallen very, very far.

We still care. We still want the game to get better. We still want to fall back in love with the game the way many of us used to love it.

That's why we're critical.

That pretty much explains exactly why I am here right now. Heard about the expansion, used to LOVE this game and was thinking about checking it out. Sounds like it would be a waste of my time though. Oh well. Guess I keep looking.

[Eleccybubb]

Apparently a few friends have told me they are done with the game. Finally started playing it and I can see why because a friend kept nagging me to play it. I'm sorry but another criticism right here. Fuck the Planar Fragment system. Oh yay DEX, Crit NOICE and Wisdom on my Skirmisher/Huntsman. -,-. All that upgrading and the 3rd stat it rolls is completely worthless.

[StrawberryZebra]

Fuck the Planar Fragment system. Oh yay DEX, Crit NOICE and Wisdom on my Skirmisher/Huntsman. -,-. All that upgrading and the 3rd stat it rolls is completely worthless.

I thought that Blade and Soul had one of the worst methods of gearing up I'd ever see in a video game, but Rift has gone out of it's way to dethrone it. At least Blade and Soul requires that you get lucky every once in a while to upgrade a piece of gear to the next level, it combines all the things I hate about crafting into a system with all the things I hate about RNG gearing. And at least they have the good grace to provide you with a reliable way to get weapon you want from lockboxes from quests when you do finally get lucky and win the box you need on the RNG wheels.

And yes, I am aware that I'm saying that a Korean grindfest MMO has a less randomised way of gearing up than Rift does. I hope the irony of it isn't lost on anyone else.

[Eleccybubb]

So apparently Wocky has quit now. Was watching this earlier on my phone.

[ryanmahaffe]

I caught the stream in the last like 20 minutes, was entertaining.

And honestly, I can see why.

Slipmat, I dont hate you, but you have to stop bringing up WoW all the time man.

It doesn't matter which one you prefer, don't ignore facts.

There are major issues that will stop people from coming back to RIFT full time in the expansion

Outside of the lack of content at max level, questing is made so muich more tedious due to 30 second fights with a single mob, it's a chore! Which is sad because the questing itself is VERY well done. Scath forest was a BLAST for the first half.

Also, what makes a "top guild" when there is no raid yet, SFP has been out for nearly a month and no new sign of a new raid release date. Its getting silly at this point.

SFP could have been a huge success if it simply was delayed for a few months. But no, for some reason they thought releasing near Christmas was a good idea.


EDIT: Good luck to you in finding a new "main" game Wocky, if thats even how you roll these days.

[theWocky]

EDIT: Good luck to you in finding a new "main" game Wocky, if thats even how you roll these days.

Got four I'm dabbling in at moment. One less popular one coming soon

[Eleccybubb]

Got four I'm dabbling in at moment. One less popular one coming soon

Well wherever you end up main thing is you enjoy it Wocky.

[Beazy]

I was about to come to this sub forum and see if rift was worth downloading and playing again. Just watched the 2 hour long video of Wocky deleting everything.

Guess Ill just re-sub to FFXIV for now.

[Dorfadin]

THIS THIS THIS. So goddamn much. Nobody here is criticising the game out of spite. They are criticising it because they want it to get better.

- - - Updated - - -

Just looking at that Top of Rift thing. Only 27 guilds completed the Comet of Ahnket on Normal and 22 on hard. That is kind of dire for raiding as a whole. And 34 have killed at least the first boss. I refuse to believe that is just difficulty.

Dammmm this makes me sad there's 600+ raid guilds on my wow server alone I loved Rift but selling raid gear for RL cash made my guild quit back in the day, such ashame.

[Slipmat]

Slipmat, I dont hate you, but you have to stop bringing up WoW all the time man.

I thought it would have been fairly obvious why, but let me explain again, this site is a 99.99% WoW site despite the actual name so in order to get some points across you have to make a comparison with WoW.

There's people on here who have never played any other MMO outside WoW so when i say "yeah i play a Mage as main in Rift" they don't know that i can do more than be a fire,frost or arcane Mage, they have no concept that my "Mage" can be a fire mage, a Necromancer, a lightning spellcaster, a Tank healer, a group healer,a melee 'battlemage', a support class, a tank, it's totally foreign to them.

That's the reason why you'd make a comparison between WoW and Rift, same applies to other games, you have to have people understand with terms they'd understand.

[ryanmahaffe]

I thought it would have been fairly obvious why, but let me explain again, this site is a 99.99% WoW site despite the actual name so in order to get some points across you have to make a comparison with WoW.

There's people on here who have never played any other MMO outside WoW so when i say "yeah i play a Mage as main in Rift" they don't know that i can do more than be a fire,frost or arcane Mage, they have no concept that my "Mage" can be a fire mage, a Necromancer, a lightning spellcaster, a Tank healer, a group healer,a melee 'battlemage', a support class, a tank, it's totally foreign to them.

That's the reason why you'd make a comparison between WoW and Rift, same applies to other games, you have to have people understand with terms they'd understand.

There is a huge difference, you are using that to explain a class, saying that mage in RIFT is nothing like a mage in WoW

What I mean is your need to do "Oh, well SFP may have had a bad launch but it's okay because Legion had some bugs to" Or Saying how some of this stuff Trion is doing is somehow okay because blizzard once did something kinda almost maybe sort of similar

- - - Updated - - -

There was a thread opened asking for more dev communication, there were a few snarky posts, but it was mostly constructive and fair.

People wanted content and to know when it was coming

Here is what Brasse (TRION CM) said
Folks, Dev does not post in response to demands that they show up and post. That's not how this works. =)

the Devs do post as often as they can (while building game features), and read a ton of feedback, both directly and when Community gathers it on specific topics.

I'll tell you quite honestly that one reason they don't post more is that they don't want to get into unwinnable arguments. Some of the most vocal players are unwilling to accept dialog and explanation and claim Dev has not responded.
Instead, time after time I see people piling on with demands, imprecations and posts about why Dev is wrong and must correct things or the game will die. That's not how dialogue works.

The Devs are hardworking professionals, and they know how to accept constructive feedback. They have most certainly already responded to every one of the issues presented here, but perhaps some are unwilling to accept their previous responses or want them to respond every single day. The answer isn't going to change overnight.


Here's how to get Dev to spend more time on the forums:
- Post as if you're sitting right beside them, right now, on a couch. Tone would be completely different if these were personal conversations.
- Consider removing the snarky signatures that immediately tell everyone that you're itching for an argument. They're not clever, they're hurtful. Not a good way to start any conversation, or get help from a Dev.
- Understand that as players we are all individuals with widely differing opinions and playstyles, and there is no way that Dev can make everyone happy. It is physically impossible.
- Accept that Dev makes choices based on game design experience, player feedback and extensive game data... and the game always continues to evolve over time. It's a remarkably democratic process and the loudest vote is still only one vote. Silent votes are just as important, and only a small percentage of players posts to the forums. (And yes, we gather feedback from in-game chat as well.)
- Accept that Dev may have made a decision that you don't like. They don't have to change it because you don't like it.
- Accept that Dev makes mistakes because they are human. If you've never made a mistake I'd love to know how you won that lottery.
- Accept that the egregious and obvious mistake you want fixed may be implemented by design and may not be a mistake at all.
- The terms everyone and nobody are two of the most misleading terms ever used. Let's stop using them, because nobody is somebody and everybody is some people. It's hard to get specific numerical data points. =)
- Join in targeted feedback threads when they are posted and stay on topic, without diverging to your personal agenda and points.

We have forum guidelines posted, but really, there's just one rule: be kind to one another... and Dev.
Brasse

[Eleccybubb]

I thought it would have been fairly obvious why, but let me explain again, this site is a 99.99% WoW site despite the actual name so in order to get some points across you have to make a comparison with WoW.

There's people on here who have never played any other MMO outside WoW so when i say "yeah i play a Mage as main in Rift" they don't know that i can do more than be a fire,frost or arcane Mage, they have no concept that my "Mage" can be a fire mage, a Necromancer, a lightning spellcaster, a Tank healer, a group healer,a melee 'battlemage', a support class, a tank, it's totally foreign to them.

That's the reason why you'd make a comparison between WoW and Rift, same applies to other games, you have to have people understand with terms they'd understand.

Again Ryan never said anything about classes. Ryan was actually referring to you comparing the mess that was Starfall to things from WoW. Basically you dumping on other games to make Rift look better.

- - - Updated - - -

There is a huge difference, you are using that to explain a class, saying that mage in RIFT is nothing like a mage in WoW

What I mean is your need to do "Oh, well SFP may have had a bad launch but it's okay because Legion had some bugs to" Or Saying how some of this stuff Trion is doing is somehow okay because blizzard once did something kinda almost maybe sort of similar

- - - Updated - - -

There was a thread opened asking for more dev communication, there were a few snarky posts, but it was mostly constructive and fair.

People wanted content and to know when it was coming

Here is what Brasse (TRION CM) said
Folks, Dev does not post in response to demands that they show up and post. That's not how this works. =)

the Devs do post as often as they can (while building game features), and read a ton of feedback, both directly and when Community gathers it on specific topics.

I'll tell you quite honestly that one reason they don't post more is that they don't want to get into unwinnable arguments. Some of the most vocal players are unwilling to accept dialog and explanation and claim Dev has not responded.
Instead, time after time I see people piling on with demands, imprecations and posts about why Dev is wrong and must correct things or the game will die. That's not how dialogue works.

The Devs are hardworking professionals, and they know how to accept constructive feedback. They have most certainly already responded to every one of the issues presented here, but perhaps some are unwilling to accept their previous responses or want them to respond every single day. The answer isn't going to change overnight.


Here's how to get Dev to spend more time on the forums:
- Post as if you're sitting right beside them, right now, on a couch. Tone would be completely different if these were personal conversations.
- Consider removing the snarky signatures that immediately tell everyone that you're itching for an argument. They're not clever, they're hurtful. Not a good way to start any conversation, or get help from a Dev.
- Understand that as players we are all individuals with widely differing opinions and playstyles, and there is no way that Dev can make everyone happy. It is physically impossible.
- Accept that Dev makes choices based on game design experience, player feedback and extensive game data... and the game always continues to evolve over time. It's a remarkably democratic process and the loudest vote is still only one vote. Silent votes are just as important, and only a small percentage of players posts to the forums. (And yes, we gather feedback from in-game chat as well.)
- Accept that Dev may have made a decision that you don't like. They don't have to change it because you don't like it.
- Accept that Dev makes mistakes because they are human. If you've never made a mistake I'd love to know how you won that lottery.
- Accept that the egregious and obvious mistake you want fixed may be implemented by design and may not be a mistake at all.
- The terms everyone and nobody are two of the most misleading terms ever used. Let's stop using them, because nobody is somebody and everybody is some people. It's hard to get specific numerical data points. =)
- Join in targeted feedback threads when they are posted and stay on topic, without diverging to your personal agenda and points.

We have forum guidelines posted, but really, there's just one rule: be kind to one another... and Dev.
Brasse

Brasse is absolutely useless as a CM. Not a bad person at all. To be fair though Ocho was completely useless and Dahanese was arguably the worst CM in all of history. I've seen a lot of those points done on the forums and devs still haven't given a shit.

[Slipmat]

I was merely using the class as an example of the differences, now sure Blizzard have gotten their finger out and Legion seems a bit better than the previous two Expansions but i don't need to go quoting entire Threads and posts on this very website about how some people perceived them to be the worst ever, can't please everyone.

I've also made no bones about saying that Starfall Prophecy could have been delayed by a few more weeks or even kept back until January but it is what it is and now nearly a moth after launch all the major bugs are ironed out, class balance will take a bit of work, heck as you mentioned WoW, look at the constant class tuning Blizzard are doing weekly even months after Legion launched and WoW classes are now as basic as they come, the next Patch, from what i read here correct me if wrong, is going to throw all that work away and restart it all over again.

Warlocks signing petitions, other people not happy with how their class works, sound familiar? but i'll leave you to carry on the "debate" anyhow but expecting someone not to bring up a WoW comparison on a WoW centric site is a bit naive, not to worry, Fae Yule begins tomorrow, 'tis the season to be jolly and all that, Brasse even gave us all an early Christmas Present.