Does it feel like the player skill level is dropping drastically?

[procne]

HAHAHAHAHA.... HA... HA... I would like to see that. I can tell you for sure balance druid rotation is explained nowhere in game. Knowing, how this game works, I would assume that goes for all specs.

There is this screen on specialization selection window which lists 6 main spells. That's enough to maintain basic rotation for a new player. It won't make you a pro, but it's a decent start.

Vanilla - spammed 1 button
TBC - spammed 1 button
WotLK - the start of actually having something of a rotation
each next expantion - improving on rotation, making timings more important...

Yes, totally spamming 1 button requires as much skill as actually doing an optimized rotation while having to actually change your position quite often due to mechanics.

I think what you both say is not contradicting. Vanilla, TBC and so on was much more simple and didn't require much skill to play well. Over time complexity kept increasing and the skill's impact was more visible. Now people, who could play decently in the past, are not skilled enough to play at the top performance anymore. And it's a good thing.

The bad thing is that elitists try to pug stuff and those do not have patience to deal with any performace lower than their own ^^

[Lilija]

There is this screen on specialization selection window which lists 6 main spells. That's enough to maintain basic rotation for a new player. It won't make you a pro, but it's a decent start.

That is something that should have been in game from the start. A well designed game should on it's own teach you the basics. However, this information is still strongly lacking and if you end your knowledge on that you will land in the "bad player" group.

I think what you both say is not contradicting. Vanilla, TBC and so on was much more simple and didn't require much skill to play well. Over time complexity kept increasing and the skill's impact was more visible. Now people, who could play decently in the past, are not skilled enough to play at the top performance anymore. And it's a good thing.

Well, this topic asked if the skill of playerbase is dropping. Fans of the good old times claim it's dropping while the other side claims it's the same or raising since the game is getting harder. At the same time it makes the bad players more visible and that might give the impression that overall community skill is dropping.

[Deleted]

Player skill has been dropping slowly since wrath...

Player skill has never been good. But to say that Arthas-fanboys had skill is still hilarious.

[Cohumulone]

I don't think so. I think what happens here is that we have a lot of players who have been in the game a long time and their characters are changing faster than they can keep up. If I played my Druid like I played 6 years ago, it would look like I had less skill, when really, I'd just been too lazy to research how it works today versus back then.

[Deleted]

You just can't pug anything anymore.

Good player find guild. Guild player only need pugs in the begining of a expansion then they gear up.

[Deficineiron]

A good chunk of tbc heroics are on par or harder then what is offered in mythic today assuming min ilv for both.

Yes in most cases the bosses did fewer things but those things killed. Bosses today almost always just wound I wound't compare them to tbc were trash packs wiped some pugs.

5-mob pulls in blackheart's room? (shadow labs) + pulls in shatt. halls?

[Deleted]

you guys are so funny.. or is it sad? i dont know:
"mehh everyone is so bad at this game and they all get the purple loot." -> "hey do you want to buy a carry? or do you want to be carried trough m+ looking for MoS keys"

and yet you try to blame the people from whom you get gold and your m+ keys

[Akka]

TBC heroics were not that hard. It was the gear. I'll put it this way....its 2008 and we are all in sunwell gear...are TBC heroics hard? That is the comparison. That is the impact of gear these days.

Except TBC heroics weren't supposed to be done in Sunwell gear, while Mythic 10+ are certainly supposed to be done in something like ilvl 865. So yeah, TBC heroics in normal blues were certainly much harder than M+10 in 865.
If we're to compare with TBC heroics in Sunwell gear... well let's wait for Nightholde and faceroll M+10 with ilvl 900+ gear. And it'll still be easier.

Also, as another poster highlighted....we been playing this game 10+ years....do you think you have not changed? We have 10+ years in 1 video game...look at your /played time.

If you've read the guys who posted this, then you probably have also read the conter-point (which is : yes you improve in the first few years... after having played 2 or 3 years, no you don't magically discover new ways to jump out of fire or do the same rotation ; and you improve only if you're challenged, not repeating the same AoE zergrush in loop).

And think....if i devoted that much time in martial arts i be fucking Bruce Lee instead of the fat bastard i am now.....

/dam you blizzard.

Talking from experience, martial arts require a lot of practice to really shine

Funny parallel in fact, the last few years I have been able to practice much less and at a much lower level, and my skills have clearly tanked - my moves are much less precise, I forgot some techniques and my posture is less crisp.
Unsurprisingly, this goes with my argument that you only improve if you are challenged, and doing easy busywork actually DEcrease your abilities (which is the reason why I still claim that average skill is lower today than in TBC, simply because the vast majority of the content, which is what the average player does, requires only to go through basic motions).

[Banard]

. So yeah, TBC heroics in normal blues were certainly much harder than M+10 in 865.

your kidding yourself...but feel free to be stubborn. I'lll leave you with


#showtooltip Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/castsequence reset=3 Steady Shot, Auto Shot
/cast [exists,target=pettarget] Kill Command
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()



TBC was a Joke. Class mechanics was a joke. Boss fights were a joke.

Mythic EN is a joke....and you know what? TBC raids were easier then Mythic EN.

[Akka]

your kidding yourself...but feel free to be stubborn. I'lll leave you with


#showtooltip Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/castsequence reset=3 Steady Shot, Auto Shot
/cast [exists,target=pettarget] Kill Command
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()

Yeah, running TBC heroics in blues and just spamming a macro and saying it just goes down easy.

Well, I guess the jokes on the hunters DO need to come from somewhere.

And as usual, it's a waste of time trying to bring some actual facts when people repeat the same bullshit about previous expansions. For all the talk about "rose-tinted glasses", it seems that "shit-stained forum clichés" have much more hold on the psyche of people.

[Banard]

And as usual, it's a waste of time trying to bring some actual facts

...you didn't bring facts you brought opinion.

[Drusin]

Well 300k is a lot to require. I have 880 ilvl and I can barely do 300k with every flask and potion and all and I'm not going to bother with that in some 5-man dungeon. 200k seems like reasonable requirement. Not every class has good aoe. I don't have one so I'm doing single target DPS. Don't be so elitist. Not everyone got perfect ping or bis legendaries.

What class do you play?

[Kazgrin]

There's not a whole lot of incentive for hardcore raiding anymore.

In turn a lot of raiders quit or become casual.

I'm pretty sure Blizz has admitted that they need to incentive top raiding more.

[Rebrabuk]

Really?

Snip

Something is horribly wrong with those graphs.

DKs and Monks ceased to exist for a week in July?
The alliance version shows it nosedive and start jumping up again at the start of November.
The faction comparison shows Horde drop by 50% and Alliance jump up by 50% in the space of a month.

I'd expect pops to shoot up on release and then slowly drop over time but these are all over the place something is weird about them.

[kary]

...you didn't bring facts you brought opinion.

He's pretty self absorbed. He tends to think that they are the same thing.

[Osmeric]

Something is horribly wrong with those graphs.

People made the same sort of dismissive comments about those graphs back at the start of WoD. But they accurately reflected the decline, and then leveling off, of active accounts during that expansion.

[Beace]

The whole carry subject is a bit odd. I have a 870 warlock. To complete the higher M+ difficulties (say 8+) at my ilvl, I pretty much have to offer up my stone and ask for a carry group. I'm a good player, and once I'm in that carry group I can usually keep up somewhat well (keeping in mind they are usually 10-20 ilvls above me).

If I wanted to do M+ "regular groups", I'd probably cap out at like +3 or +4. Noone is gonna invite me to anything higher than that. With these regular groups I'm also generally gonna play with a lot of bad players. With a carry group I know I'm getting good and experienced players.

So those are the 2 options:

1) Offer up stone for a carry group. Usually a good and smooth experience. Cap out at maybe +9-12 for the weekly reward.

2) Find regular groups. Lots of bad players. Cap out at +3-4, if you're lucky.

[vsb]

What class do you play?

Arms warrior.

[Drusin]

Arms warrior.

I don't play arms so maybe there is something I'm not realizing but https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...=10&metric=dps

[Lilija]

There's not a whole lot of incentive for hardcore raiding anymore.

In turn a lot of raiders quit or become casual.

I'm pretty sure Blizz has admitted that they need to incentive top raiding more.

There is nothing wrong in being a casual raider (note: you still can compete the hardest content if you don't suck)

Nowadays I am nowhere near as hardcore as I've been before MoP and I prefer it much more. Sure, content clears are slower but I still have fun and less preasure than trying to race other guilds.