First time I'm trully lost with SimC - Assa rogue

[Akhana]

Well.....It's the first time i'm asking for some help in this department, let's see how it goes.


Situation: ilvl 886 Assasination rogue with legendary belt and pants. Stats aside my SimC sims 422k as Exsanguinate (Ex) vs 400k (22k less) as Agonizing poison (AP) . That should happen given my gear (Relative low 66% mastery), but when i change my gear to full mastery to around 105%+ mastery and 43% crit with AP while losing only around 2 overall item level by dps plummets to 380k (42k less than my actual sim model).


Problem is that i'm doing really bad dps wise ATM. It's not a rotation problem (I was able to get consistent 97-99% percentile in almost all the past expansions save WoD which I didn't play) so I took an educated guess and thought about an optimization problem.


From what I gathered so far, AP was supposedly better than EX with the proper gear....But 108% mastery is not working for me ? (At least in my SimC, didn't tried to play live). The logs shows a slight advantage for AP when pushing into the higher percentiles..



Is it possible that I'm missing something and mi SimCraft is broken?

How much mastery worked for you if you use AP?



o/

[SSJones]

Is it possible that I'm missing something and mi SimCraft is broken?

If you're using 710-02, Simcraft is broken. Download one of the more recent nightly builds of 710-03, and it should give you more realistic numbers.

[lobocito]

Although with 710-03, I still always sim exsang stronger than AP up to 120% mastery, even though in practice I can get much better results out of AP even at about 105% mastery. I think anything over 100% will work for AP but if you are doing something like giving up an Eye of Command for a mastery stat stick or something that'll be a big part of where your DPS is going away.
One thing to consider when looking at your percentiles this expac is A. how were your procs? Did you get a few BOTA's and poison bombs during vendetta? and B. Between legendaries and the 3x Master Assassin set up, there are a lot of rogues with lower ilvl who will be smearing you. At 865 I simmed and could regularly pull well over 400K because I had the legendary boots and 3x MA, and it drove the rogues in my guild with 20 ilvls on me up the wall.
Also note that vers is almost equal to mastery for AP, so if you are dumping a shitload of versatility to boost your mastery, that'll reduce your dps sims as well.

[Akhana]

Thanks for the responses so far!

Although with 710-03, I still always sim exsang stronger than AP up to 120% mastery, even though in practice I can get much better results out of AP even at about 105% mastery. I think anything over 100% will work for AP but if you are doing something like giving up an Eye of Command for a mastery stat stick or something that'll be a big part of where your DPS is going away.
One thing to consider when looking at your percentiles this expac is A. how were your procs? Did you get a few BOTA's and poison bombs during vendetta? and B. Between legendaries and the 3x Master Assassin set up, there are a lot of rogues with lower ilvl who will be smearing you. At 865 I simmed and could regularly pull well over 400K because I had the legendary boots and 3x MA, and it drove the rogues in my guild with 20 ilvls on me up the wall.
Also note that vers is almost equal to mastery for AP, so if you are dumping a shitload of versatility to boost your mastery, that'll reduce your dps sims as well.

I'm not giving out that much versatility for the mastery (I'm giving about 2% versa and 5% crit for 40%+ mastery). My trinkets are ilvl 885 Ursoc Agi trinket + ilvl 880 Spontaneous appendages for AP vs Ursoc Agi Trinket + ilvl 870 Chaos Talisman.


Maybe what i'm doing wrong is that I don't currently have any MA relics ? I have 2 rupture damage and 1 rupture crit, ilvl 890/880/880 . If MA is now the way to go, where was the theorycraft concieved T_T


God lord...I really miss EJ

[lobocito]

MA has been universally the #1 relic since legion was announced! That is reflected in like, every single rogue DPS guide that has been written. Although iits generally either 3 or bust- until you have 3 to swap in, others will stay stronger. But if you have zero thats another reason exsang will always sim better- since exsang and vendetta will always be lined up in the sims, it'll show way more damage.

[Deleted]

Hey.

Your post interest me too.
I'm 872 ilvl with 3 MA relics, 44% crit, 90+ mastery and 5% vers.
On sim I'm at 388k without a good legendary. It's really high because my DH is 886 ilvl with good gear and weapon 35 and I sim around 400k.

I think 3 MA relics is a must have. Even if they are 860 ilvl.
Then if you can have the boots you're god at deeps.

My question is : when we reach 43% crit, should we continue to have more or we just go for mastery/vers?

Thanks mates.

[beebopcola]

@furixx, i don't have the math behind this, but after i dropped a good amount of crit for more mastery, everything outside of the opener has gone really well. I ended up changing my opener to Garrote, Rupture, Mut, Vendetta, Mut (to likely 6, if 5 kingsbane), Vanish, Rup. That way an unlucky string won't fuck me. I don't have boots but 3 MA relics, and i saw my DPS shoot up substantially on fights from the previous weeks outside a few outlying incidents (3 rots on Nyth type of thing).

[TwentyTwelve]

Hm, I'm still using 7.1.0 02 - can't see the newer version...

But at 866ilvl (3MA relics) and 110% mastery, i sim for 381k. (no legendary, well i got legs)

Somethings broke on ur end defo

[lobocito]

Furixx with the current set up, at 43/44% crit we tend to get bigger returns from mastery/vers than crit per point but crit is still very valuable. I went pretty into this on another thread on here about the Eye of Command, but basically 44% crit when we're most likely to hit 6 combo points from 2 muts while the least likely to waste it by getting too many. Beebop it would be interesting to see those logs / note what your stat changes were to see those kind of returns. Is it possible you just had some reallllly lucky procs? Some of my logs from like a month ago and -20 ilvl are still my best because of glorious BOTA and poison bomb procs, and you could have of course gotten really lucky with most of your critical mutilates for 3/4 cp when they were most needed ya know?

[Deleted]

Yeah I see what you mean.

Anyway I don't stack 6 cp from mutilate because I want to be on elaborate planning permently.

I put gem and enchant mastery because I already have 44% crit and less than 100% mastery. I could change it for vers or crit but I don't think it will change a lot my deeps.

[Akhana]

Thanks all for the responses.

I read that MA relics was 3 or bust and even then wasn't *that much* difference. Now I'm reading that 2 MA relics are acceptable too (I'm starting to get confused T_T ).

About the 44%~ crit it's always where the weight of crit starts to go down with the gear I have and Vers/Mastery take over the spot, but not by much.



I had something broke on my side (Old version SimC) but still i'm clearly missing the relics for the sim to be reliable.

[Souichirou]

If you're using 710-02, Simcraft is broken. Download one of the more recent nightly builds of 710-03, and it should give you more realistic numbers.

Doubtful, I still use 710-02 and my rogue performs within 10% margin of error of sims under ideal conditions.

[SSJones]

Doubtful, I still use 710-02 and my rogue performs within 10% margin of error of sims under ideal conditions.

By broken, I mean it's not doing AP or MP correctly, and I think is missing a few tweaks that can affect your decision between Exsang and AP. Anyways, a more complete answer would have been to tell the OP that the general thought these days is that Agility is a larger deciding factor on when you can swap to AP than mastery is. Going full mastery, if you lose significant agility, might be another reason why you sim so much lower.

[Souichirou]

By broken, I mean it's not doing AP or MP correctly, and I think is missing a few tweaks that can affect your decision between Exsang and AP. Anyways, a more complete answer would have been to tell the OP that the general thought these days is that Agility is a larger deciding factor on when you can swap to AP than mastery is. Going full mastery, if you lose significant agility, might be another reason why you sim so much lower.

That could be a possibility, but the fact the op is at 886 ilvl his agility is vastly higher than mine, and my rogue sims significantly higher than what he posted sims at. If anything I could be another issue entirely.