Heroic Helya - 14 Man - Help advise please

[yarafx1]

So we've progressing on Heroic Helya stubbornly for the last few weeks, we don't even get close.

Is it possible, with 14 man, we tried 2-3-9 but were having issues with dispels, then 2-4-8 issues with damage. Is there to much going on in this fight to have so few people?

Is it just the damage is not high enough universally?

We've tried going center for ooze's that turned into a piss show, the left seems to work better but other mechanics seem to always interfere.

Any helps advise, tips or anything of the sort would be greatly appreciated.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...mmary&fight=23


~ Bèta

[Joryy]

Your raiders need to do much more damage to kill the boss.

[nephzor]

Ok, im gonna talk strictly about your frost dk.

1) He shouldnt be playing frostscythe on this fight only use frostscythe when you can hit 3-4+ targets with it otherwise its not worth it, helya is a ST figh, with priority adds. Runic atenuation is much better for this fight, since you want to do p2 as fast as possible and p3 is lust and burn before everyone dies.

2) Sindragosas fury on the first set of oozes while pillar of frost and potion of prolonged power is still up. On 30man it really helps, and i could see it destroy the first set of ooze in a 14man.

3) I'd recommend the obliteration talent instead of glacial advance on this fight, but both are decent i guess.

4) does he have better trinkets ? Because the one he has right now are seriously bad. Memento and eye of command or a stat stick with vers, haste or crit will be better. For helya chrono shard is probably really strong just because of the movement speed from the proc especially in phase 2, same for hunger of the pack.

Here's a list of trinkets for him.

[Deja Thoris]

I have a strong suspicion that this fight is a lot easier with ~20 people though I don't really have data to prove it.

[javen]

None of the mechanics scale past mob health so more people = easier.

[Bearygood]

None of the mechanics scale past mob health so more people = easier.

Not even fair

[stevenho]

You are undergeared for this boss. With your average raid ilvl, you would have to be really good to kill it.
Also, she is easier with 20+ people.

[yarafx1]

Not really sure how 870 ish is undergeared for it tbh.

[Hoofey]

You're not undergeared, but wow.. You guys really need to do more damage.
If your damage is this low during P1, theres no way you'll be able to do P2 without getting a 3rd set of adds.


Edit: I took a look at your best attempt: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&fight=17

First thing I noticed was that your dps was extremely low. It took you guys 3:40 to reach P2. That means you're looking at some extremely low dps numbers.

Lets go over the dps from 0:00 to 3:40, which pretty much sums up P1: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...50&end=7489251

You have 2 people around the 400k mark, with the rest barely hitting 300k, going down as far as to 225k dps. That is just too low for this fight, especially since there are a bunch of adds involved.


Looking at P2, it gets even worse.
It takes you guys waaaay too long to get the adds down. You guys have 1 tentacle at 50%, the other one at 80% when the 2nd set of Mariner\Grimelord spawns, and you had barely touched the tentacle downstairs to the right. That just wont cut it for P2.

Now, I main a hunter, and it was obvious to me that your hunters could use some tips on this fight.
First of all, it took you guys way too long to kill the first set of adds. If you have your hunters use Trueshot on the first set of adds, they should go down pretty damn fast, which leaves you with more time on the boss. They can also just target Helya and cleave through the adds if you do it this way. I usually end up around 1 mill dps when the last add is dead when doing it this way.
Some people call this dps-padding, but you guys clearly need the extra dps.

Now, for P2.
What we usually do, is to have some melee kill one of the tentacles downstairs near the platforms, before the Mariner\Grimelord adds spawn, while the rest of the raid focus of the 3 in the back. I also noticed that one of your hunters, Ozdakka, isnt cleaving the tentacles in the back like he should do. Just have him copy Artimen by standing on the side so that Sidewinders can hit all 3 of the tentacles. Same thing when dps'ing the Mariner.

Your hunters should also save their CD's for the skeleton adds. The amount of dps a hunter with CD's can do on those adds, is ridiculous.
And like I said, you guys really need the dps on those adds if you're to have any hope in killing the platform-tentacles in time.

Here's one of our Helya kills, with the same amount of people and a bunch of socials. A crappy kill, but a kill nonetheless
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...Rc#view=replay

[Deleted]

Not really sure how 870 ish is undergeared for it tbh.

a boss which drops 10 itemlvl more then what you have on average is undergeared.
b4 you say "but method kills bosses all the time with less gear then they drop" they (and others) are top players for a reason.
it is very much intended for less skilled raid grps to tackle bosses which drop about their raid ilvl avg.

the biggest problem of the logs you posted (for now) is people dying to really stupid stuff (tentacle strike, breath, orbs) and then you dont have enough dps anymore for the blobs so you die. as soon as everyone understands what you guys need to do you will get to phase 2. phase 3 is something where your dps will be a problem.

[styil]

a boss which drops 10 itemlvl more then what you have on average is undergeared.
b4 you say "but method kills bosses all the time with less gear then they drop" they (and others) are top players for a reason.
it is very much intended for less skilled raid grps to tackle bosses which drop about their raid ilvl avg.

the biggest problem of the logs you posted (for now) is people dying to really stupid stuff (tentacle strike, breath, orbs) and then you dont have enough dps anymore for the blobs so you die. as soon as everyone understands what you guys need to do you will get to phase 2. phase 3 is something where your dps will be a problem.

Their average item level was 874.9. And Heroic Odyn/Guarm drop 875. Not many upgrades left especially from only 2 bosses.

[Sonnillon]

Just out of pure curiousity (sorry to hijack your thread), but what should be everyone pulling to get HC Helya down? We're about to progress on her as well in the upcoming weeks.
These are just normal logs, but based on what we can do on normal do we even have a chance in killing it? Mythic EN is out sadly due to nature of group. How much extra damage do the waves due on HC? Cause we have no decent AoE stuns that can be chained and last long enough to finish the adds off, we end up just keeping them in the waves and getting hit by those... So.. erm is this possible in HC or will it be a major setback?

[Hoofey]

Just out of pure curiousity (sorry to hijack your thread), but what should be everyone pulling to get HC Helya down? We're about to progress on her as well in the upcoming weeks.
These are just normal logs, but based on what we can do on normal do we even have a chance in killing it? Mythic EN is out sadly due to nature of group. How much extra damage do the waves due on HC? Cause we have no decent AoE stuns that can be chained and last long enough to finish the adds off, we end up just keeping them in the waves and getting hit by those... So.. erm is this possible in HC or will it be a major setback?

As long as everyone is between 3-400k, you should be able to kill it. It will be hard, but doable.

Just make sure you get your dps to figure out the best positioning\CD usage and whatnot on that fight. Saw the same tendencies with your guild as the OP's guild, when it comes to proper positioning/CD's in order to maximize dps.

When it comes to P2..
If the Mariner dies with a bunch of time to spare before he does his aoe, have some big aoe'ers save CD's for the skeleton adds. You want to kill them off as soon as possible to get more time on the tentacles. Just dont waste everything you have on the Mariner.

Its one of those fights where you need to play on peoples strengths and weaknesses when it comes to DPS.
You'll get the hang of it eventually.

[ThePants999]

Why would you have issues with dispels with 3 healers?

[Deleted]

I have a strong suspicion that this fight is a lot easier with ~20 people though I don't really have data to prove it.

I am not so sure about it, we had a group of 20 people trying to kill her in the first few weeks. After we kept wiping to personal mistakes etc. We cut out a lot of the baddies and ended up with 15 decent people and 1shot it.

[Gilthresa]

Why would you have issues with dispels with 3 healers?

I don't know? Spastic healers? We dispelled heroic with two healers.

[Deja Thoris]

I am not so sure about it, we had a group of 20 people trying to kill her in the first few weeks. After we kept wiping to personal mistakes etc. We cut out a lot of the baddies and ended up with 15 decent people and 1shot it.

Great logic there. Cutting 5 baddies who don't pull their weight is in no way, shape or form what we're talking about.

[Deleted]

I have a strong suspicion that this fight is a lot easier with ~20 people though I don't really have data to prove it.

This is always the case, all flex difficulties = easier with more ppl. Just like 25HC was easier than 10HC (come at me)

[Deleted]

Wiping to adds exploding with too much health while running 3 hunters in 14man is unacceptable. Other then that from your attempts into phase 2, your raiders need to pay more attention to spreading with rot and not standing in general fire (sludge nova from the add etc). And yes, your general dps is very low, the fight gets much easier whenever you cut down on time spent in phases. In current shape it would probably take you like 12 minutes to kill it, assuming its even possible to survive that long in p3.

Have the 2 hunters running MM jump behind the first blobs, pop TS and nuke em down, while everyone else just tunnels the boss. Their trueshots should be up for first small adds in p2, making your life a lot easier as they would just die in a few seconds.

[Deleted]

This is always the case, all flex difficulties = easier with more ppl. Just like 25HC was easier than 10HC (come at me)

Oh that is why 25HC was cleared faster than 10HC? Oh wait they weren't. If you dare to say that all the 10man guilds were better players than the 25man ones then you logic is invalid.