7.1.5 PTR Notes Changes for DPS DKs

[Deleted]

Hope both specs will be about equal overall and not 1 being hugly better then other if UH becomes lot better then frost im just gonna main my monk or dh for raiding, i have 2frost legendarys and 35 in frost i dont feel like swapping back to UH unless they alow us to trade legendarys for other legendarys, but aslo i dont like uh as much anymore due its dmg difference due rng each pull i feel like conistent dps> high or low variable dps.

[Baddok21]

Hope both specs will be about equal overall and not 1 being hugly better then other if UH becomes lot better then frost im just gonna main my monk or dh for raiding, i have 2frost legendarys and 35 in frost i dont feel like swapping back to UH unless they alow us to trade legendarys for other legendarys, but aslo i dont like uh as much anymore due its dmg difference due rng each pull i feel like conistent dps> high or low variable dps.

Unholy with Bracers/Belt and Frost with Bracers/Belt are as realistically close as 2 specs can hope to be in terms of DPS difference (I mean compared to prior expansions a 4-7% dmg difference would have been the dream). they just missed the mark with unholy w/o bracers being to far away after the frost buffs.

they have actually done a great job of spec balance this expac overall i mean this isnt WoD,Cata,MoP where the difference between frost and Unholy was 10-15-20 and even 40% from tier to tier.

[Deleted]

Unholy with Bracers/Belt and Frost with Bracers/Belt are as realistically close as 2 specs can hope to be in terms of DPS difference (I mean compared to prior expansions a 4-7% dmg difference would have been the dream). they just missed the mark with unholy w/o bracers being to far away after the frost buffs.

they have actually done a great job of spec balance this expac overall i mean this isnt WoD,Cata,MoP where the difference between frost and Unholy was 10-15-20 and even 40% from tier to tier.

aslong isnt like early legion again is prolly fine, if UH destroys frost in dmg im just not gonna bother with my dk anymore(got 3legy's, 5% trait and quite good gear so i dont have to worry about anything really even if i swap).

[Irosol]

so do we think unholy will be a contender for competitive dps with frost? or should i just stay frost? i love playing unholy but my frost dps is just so much higher

[Raiz]

wrath beta: "changes are not final, calm down"
wrath launch: changes were final, concern was justified

cata beta: "changes are not final, calm down"
cata launch: changes were final, concern was justified

mop beta: "changes are not final, calm down"
mop launch: changes were final, concern was justified

wod beta: "changes are not final, calm down"
wod launch: changes were final, concern was justified

legion beta: "changes are not final, calm down"
legion launch: changes were final, concern was justified


notice the trend?

Not different from playing the lottery. Blizz is doing that on purpose so that we don't stop paying the subscription.

[Casterbridge]

The Undead model update is confirmed for 7.2

I expect they will give us glyphs specifically to enjoy all the new undead models when that is done. for the time being i simply consider it a "hang in there" kinda deal

PS: every single undead model created is being updated, so we might get glyphs for Lichs, ghosts, skeletal warriors/mages/archers/flayers etc etc just imgaine making "all will serve" a skeletal mage instead of archer with updated models

oh now that is nice.

[Demosthenes]

Is this new build, going to perhaps push SI back over IC? Due to mastery buffing DT damage? If so will we be struggling for Wounds, if we take the CS build.. which looks like it will scale better.

[Kronik85]

actually im kinda torn on this, on one hand, i should admonish you for not taking a hypothetical thinking approach to analytical situations when discussing damage theory and instead asking for a solution to a situation where a majority of required variables have remained undefined, but on the other hand, calling you a scrub and saying l2play doesn't do much either if you simply don't know. The difficulty here is trying to put 8 years of learned knowledge into a paragraph for someone who has a problem with big words while still being specific enough in wording that misunderstandings don't happen. so, here goes: stick the pointy end of your sword in the boss, when you can't do this anymore, throw the green skull at it.

spending RP is a balance of rune regen and damage output. if you know you will need a bunch of runes in a moment you will probably want to spend RP on 1 or 2 GCDs to kick in RC in time for your burst. This doesn't mean RP dump, and it doesn't even mean DC, if you're in melee and not full health, use DS instead. but if you are at full health, DC does more damage per RP spent. however, DC does less damage per GCD than SS/CS+FW, so now look at what the remaining cooldown time is on your runes, will the runes you need 3 GCDs from now be available in time? or do you need to speed that up with a DC. a damage loss taken by using DC over a rune now can translate to a damage gain 3 GCDs from now if you have all runes available for a well timed damage dump.

Played DK since Wrath, parsed 95%+ on every fight when I was playing Unholy, not to mention that we've had this discussion on this forum before. As suspected, no new information given. Congratz though on managing so many words to fail to actually make a point though.

[Cyanotical]

Played DK since Wrath, parsed 95%+ on every fight when I was playing Unholy, not to mention that we've had this discussion on this forum before. As suspected, no new information given. Congratz though on managing so many words to fail to actually make a point though.

thats not an argument, and i have the same story, played dk since midnight launch, i'm almost always top dps, my dps is also usually above my ilvl average, it impresses me not. most life long video gamers are like that with any class, i bet you top dps on your alts too, big whoop.

the difference between a simple instruction "dump RP when X" and an analytical discussion on hypothetical situations on when RP use is appropriate is the difference between simply playing versus mastering the class. if mastering the class is too hard for you after 8 years, paladins are that way>

[Kronik85]

thats not an argument, and i have the same story, played dk since midnight launch, i'm almost always top dps, my dps is also usually above my ilvl average, it impresses me not. most life long video gamers are like that with any class, i bet you top dps on your alts too, big whoop.

the difference between a simple instruction "dump RP when X" and an analytical discussion on hypothetical situations on when RP use is appropriate is the difference between simply playing versus mastering the class. if mastering the class is too hard for you after 8 years, paladins are that way>

You're the one who brought up time played as if it somehow adds legitimacy to what you're spouting and then tried to call me a scrub. The reality of playing Unholy with a maxed out Artifact is that you're usually resource capped, you didn't manage to elucidate on anything but instead opted to try and make yourself feel big by writing a word salad. The reality is that you have nothing useful to say regarding Unholy DPS.

Is this where I point you to another forum?

[Maxweii]

Quick question. How does Arbiter feel compared to Soul Reaper on the PTR?

I haven't tested it since the damage increase, however with the tuning up it likely feels very good compared to it @Rothulean1 has tested it so he would be able to speak on it.

How is the UH ghoul now with the shadow damage change? Any word on that from the PTR? Curious if I can avoid taking the abomination and not feel to guilty about it. Or was the shadow damage only for single target?

As people already mentioned it's for both ghoul and abom, but the shadow damage change is really noticeable.

This is rough math so it's accurate but I did for example only account for 80% mastery instead of my 83% on ghoul damage, so it's VERY close to what it would be but slightly off. I broke down my Nythendra log, where I added in all the 3% increases, the ghoul damage increase, the mastery scaling on the ghoul, 50% increase on Gary, 20% on CS, as well as taking out the appropriate amount of Dragged to Hellheim explosions.

The log in question I did 86,360,000 damage. After the buffs I would end up doing (roughly) 99,099,711 damage. So an increase of 12,739,711 damage. That's a 14.751% increase in damage, and that would also be a difference of 343,836 dps, going up to 394,819 dps.
From the ghoul damage increase, which was 3,660,000 > 8,563,400, that's a 4,902,400 damage gain for a 5.67% increase. An almost 6% increase from just this one change alone.

While I know this is rough math, and the PTR isn't done, this is what a CS build will be seeing for rough gains in damage from live going into 7.1.5. That's also running with SR, which we aren't even sure is the best talent anymore as well. I hope this gives people an idea as to how powerful the changes are to a CS Mastery build are, and that the very real possibility of it becoming the popular talent (I say popular instead of viable as it's already viable in live as is).

- - - Updated - - -

Is this new build, going to perhaps push SI back over IC? Due to mastery buffing DT damage? If so will we be struggling for Wounds, if we take the CS build.. which looks like it will scale better.

Read my above post for more math on it, however I would say that SI likely will be even if anything to IC. CS builds value IC very highly for the free wounds, though come once we have the 4 set we likely will want SI as we already have free wounds from the set bonus.

[Rothulean1]

Arbiter is back to the 700% AP value it was during beta, back when it was the top talent choice (except now the CD is 2 mins). Without any buffs and using my gear from live, I can easily do 4 million damage with her. With flask, food, lust and shoulders? It would be impressive damage.

I dont know if its better than SR. But Im pretty sure its close enough it doesnt matter what we choose.

[Cyanotical]

You're the one who brought up time played as if it somehow adds legitimacy to what you're spouting and then tried to call me a scrub. The reality of playing Unholy with a maxed out Artifact is that you're usually resource capped, you didn't manage to elucidate on anything but instead opted to try and make yourself feel big by writing a word salad. The reality is that you have nothing useful to say regarding Unholy DPS.

Is this where I point you to another forum?

TBH i don't think you're that good, when you do something long enough you realize that you go through stages of learning, and when you see others learning after you, you see them at stages you were once at. your statement:

You don't need to spend RP at all unless you have 3 runes on CD.

is an instruction, not an understanding, that tells me that you're not that deep into the class, you just want your next simple instruction, so when i don't give them, you respond stating i didn't provide information, i did, its just a bit above your head. sorry about that.

simpler instructions:
have a rune timer addon that displays seconds.
use the amount of time remaining on a grouping of runes to decide on if you should use a DC on the next global or not
consider:
-what is my next damage setup after this one and how many runes do i need?
-do will i have enough runes by then to perform the attack i want?
-is the risk of RC not proccing worth the GCD loss?

how you answer those depends on the situation and the fight,as well as what damage setup you are using, a damage setup is a distinct play of spells to maximize damage, an example would be FS>FS>SR>APOC, this one is easy, FS applies wounds, SR gives you and your army a boost and APOC bursts the wounds. any time you are planning a combo of spells to maximize damage in a situation, that is a damage setup. getting your damage setups right in both application and timing is the key to max damage on target. intelligent use of RP is extremely beneficial to quickly building damage setups and therefore maximizing dps.

or is that too much for you to consider in 1 GCD? pallies.....that way> its okay, you'll fit in.

[Schizoide]

I dont know if its better than SR. But Im pretty sure its close enough it doesnt matter what we choose.

And that is true balance.

[Kronik85]

TBH i don't think you're that good, when you do something long enough you realize that you go through stages of learning, and when you see others learning after you, you see them at stages you were once at. your statement:



is an instruction, not an understanding, that tells me that you're not that deep into the class, you just want your next simple instruction, so when i don't give them, you respond stating i didn't provide information, i did, its just a bit above your head. sorry about that.

simpler instructions:
have a rune timer addon that displays seconds.
use the amount of time remaining on a grouping of runes to decide on if you should use a DC on the next global or not
consider:
-what is my next damage setup after this one and how many runes do i need?
-do will i have enough runes by then to perform the attack i want?
-is the risk of RC not proccing worth the GCD loss?

how you answer those depends on the situation and the fight,as well as what damage setup you are using, a damage setup is a distinct play of spells to maximize damage, an example would be FS>FS>SR>APOC, this one is easy, FS applies wounds, SR gives you and your army a boost and APOC bursts the wounds. any time you are planning a combo of spells to maximize damage in a situation, that is a damage setup. getting your damage setups right in both application and timing is the key to max damage on target. intelligent use of RP is extremely beneficial to quickly building damage setups and therefore maximizing dps.

or is that too much for you to consider in 1 GCD? pallies.....that way> its okay, you'll fit in.

Ye sure man. What you're talking about with perfect execution amounts to at best a gain in the hundreds of DPS if that because you're never resource starved. If I scratch my balls during an encounter it will have more impact on my DPS than what you're talking about. You keep pretending Unholy is rocket science though if it makes you feel better about yourself.

[Cyanotical]

Ye sure man. What you're talking about with perfect execution amounts to at best a gain in the hundreds of DPS if that because you're never resource starved. If I scratch my balls during an encounter it will have more impact on my DPS than what you're talking about. You keep pretending Unholy is rocket science though if it makes you feel better about yourself.

well yeah, tiny balls don't take long to scratch. also, if that's your idea of rocket science, what do you call actual rocket science? or particle physics? unholy isn't hard to learn and play at a competitive level, but to get the most out of the spec/class, you need to have a deeper understanding than just simple instructions.

[Kronik85]

well yeah, tiny balls don't take long to scratch. also, if that's your idea of rocket science, what do you call actual rocket science? or particle physics? unholy isn't hard to learn and play at a competitive level, but to get the most out of the spec/class, you need to have a deeper understanding than just simple instructions.

Sick burn bruh. You present me some empirical evidence of the philosophies of which you speak bearing fruit then I'll be happy to speak with you. Until that day though I have no interest in bickering with you. See you in 7.1.5 .

[Maxweii]

So as I continued to test things, got the newest build of Simc running.
Live CS build sim - 366,828 dps https://www.dropbox.com/s/u8o5ckdnel...Live.html?dl=0
PTR CS build sim - 413,707 dps https://www.dropbox.com/s/abotx54vld...0PTR.html?dl=0
That's a 12.78% damage increase without really testing which talents are best in the last row or messing with the apl or anything.

Looking through the damage increases on things, stuff like the Aboms Vile Gas damage skyrocketed. Vile Gas average damage live - 48,352, Vile Gas average damage PTR - 132,634

[Cyanotical]

Sick burn bruh. You present me some empirical evidence of the philosophies of which you speak bearing fruit then I'll be happy to speak with you. Until that day though I have no interest in bickering with you. See you in 7.1.5 .

meh, i'd rather just bicker, gathering evidence takes effort i just don't want to put in. but honestly, 8 years and you don't just understand this stuff? come on

[Kronik85]

meh, i'd rather just bicker, gathering evidence takes effort i just don't want to put in. but honestly, 8 years and you don't just understand this stuff? come on

So no data then? You must be new here but no one gives a shit what your opinion is unless you actually present it with some evidence. See what Maxweii is doing above you? That's how you win arguments on this sub forum.