Resto 7.1.5 NERF

[Deleted]

it's "funny" logic here = we are ok at the moment -> we should be bottom healer class next raid tier! bring the nerfs.

[Deleted]

You do realise that any decent meter doesnt count overheal right?.

sorry i cant follow your explainations

lets assume the following

skada healing

#1 resto shamn
#2 resto druid
#3 hpala
#4 hpriest

skada overhealing

#1 hpries
#2 druid
#3 hpala
#4 shaman

the hpriest is way less effective than the shaman cause he heals less while having more overheal, this scenario is very common in my raid

[Tehterokkar]

god help your guild mate

Typical mmo-c mongoloid right here. BUT METERS ARE WHAT MATTER xDDD.

Resto is by far the most versatile healer. While Druids have Tranq and Holy Priests have Hymn, Shamans have Tide, SLT, Ascendance, Ancestral Guidance, Ancestral Protection Totem and Cloudburst totem.

So when you start assigning healer CDs for different shit on progress(eg. Xavius P1 Horror early on, Cenarius Wisps waves/double sister), you notice that Shaman can cover most periods where those CDs are needed, while other healers can only cover 1.

Not only that, but the person you quoted has valid points. Shaman is the only healer with actual mobility healing through SWG, only healer with interrupt and strongest self CD.

But sure, live on in your dream meme land where meters are what kills bosses :^)

[Deleted]

Typical mmo-c mongoloid right here. BUT METERS ARE WHAT MATTER xDDD.

Resto is by far the most versatile healer. While Druids have Tranq and Holy Priests have Hymn, Shamans have Tide, SLT, Ascendance, Ancestral Guidance, Ancestral Protection Totem and Cloudburst totem.

So when you start assigning healer CDs for different shit on progress(eg. Xavius P1 Horror early on, Cenarius Wisps waves/double sister), you notice that Shaman can cover most periods where those CDs are needed, while other healers can only cover 1.

Not only that, but the person you quoted has valid points. Shaman is the only healer with actual mobility healing through SWG, only healer with interrupt and strongest self CD.

But sure, live on in your dream meme land where meters are what kills bosses :^)

if your shaman is number 1 or 2 on meters your cohealers are fucking sleeping mate, also CBT or EST as healing CDs xD

that is why i feel sorry for his guild you fucking sperg, get your autism in check

[Deleted]

you think that is alot?? check paladin logs my friend they crit 1mil and they dont need target to be at 50% hp

apples to oranges

[Supliftz]

Do you play resto on prog? Our mastery is hands down the best for learning fights, because it makes up for mistakes, which allows you to see further in the fight.....which in turn lets you see even further, until you KILL THE BOSS. who gives a shit if you're not #1, you're job is to save people from dying, which is exactly what our mastery does if you play properly. preemptive Chain heals and HR so you are getting the heals when they are lower hp. coordinate cds with other healers so we get the benefit of our mastery and they can conserve their cds/mana for later. Proper Triage healing.

all of the fights in M TOV are great for our mastery. You just have to be proactive, as does every other healer.

yea I really enjoy having a restorative shaman in for prog. Their mastery combined with their cds carry you pretty hard when you're learning new bosses

our restorative shaman's APT carried us pretty hard in p1 helya

[captiva]

You do realise that any decent meter doesnt count overheal right? Those other healers arent beating you cause they are overhealing, they are beating you because they are pushing out more effective healing. Yeah, we have nice "oh sh!t" buttons, but thats about it. Started off this xpac doing very well in healing, then we started clearing mythic and suddenly other healers started to catch up and slowely overtake... The resto druid in my raid is now close to doubling my healing on some encounters (tranq legendary is overpowered but hey, good for him). Its so depressing that ive decided to step down from raiding and reroll.

You have a couple of ways to compete in effective healing as a rsham. You can take torrent/echo and snipe heals with riptide, you can totally ignore your raids cd rotation and try double dip your cds (healing tide and AG) or you can ask your resto druid to go boomy.

This^ I have since went enhance due to this. When we hit progression again I might switch back but as of right now Rshaman is useless throughput wise and we have got nothing but nerfs since 7.0 dropped. That's why I am annoyed.

[mcbubble]

Typical mmo-c mongoloid right here. BUT METERS ARE WHAT MATTER xDDD.
Shaman is the only healer with actual mobility healing through SWG, only healer with interrupt and strongest self CD.

Our mobility is NOTHING compared to resto druids. Not only are they king of throughput, they're also king of mobility. It's interesting to see how many fanboys we have in here saying that our mastery is what makes us good healers. When you have a holy priest holy word that can heal for up to 4 million or a holy paladin can hit with HS for 3 million...how do we compare with that? Now granted, on stacked fights and fights where people are constantly sub 50%, we are good. Take either one of those away and we're just CD machines. Also for some of us, we don't count ascendance as a CD (if you have Jonat's - since you'll be using high tide..so take that one out). So yeh, we have Link + AG + tide.

[Jeathebelle]

if your shaman is number 1 or 2 on meters your cohealers are fucking sleeping mate

Top M Helya kills: http://imgur.com/a/p6XZ0

Classic thunking face situation.

[Deleted]

the shaman mastery is overrated, it really isn't so good (it's good only with cooldowns), there are some fights where raid is low longer times and there still druids excel instead shamans - like mythic dragons and cenarius, or even odin.

[Vraull]

the shaman mastery is overrated, it really isn't so good (it's good only with cooldowns), there are some fights where raid is low longer times and there still druids excel instead shamans - like mythic dragons and cenarius, or even odin.

like i said before, our mastery is amazing for prog, where people make mistakes.

odyn caters to more resto druid due to the spread nature of the fight, and even then im still above ours usually. that fight is hpal/priest heaven.
Cenarius we are extremely good because of HR/EST/RT. very efficient healing as well, on our first kill I only lost to our disc priest because they are broken.
Dragons....theres no damage to really heal on this fight so of course a druids hots are gonna be better. you cant win them all.

[Deleted]

Top M Helya kills: http://imgur.com/a/p6XZ0

Classic thunking face situation.

>Skada logs

good meme l2p

[Deleted]

I've been maining a Resto shaman for over 7 years now. I've always wondered about the shaman community. Every nerf is welcomed and of course completely justified, the spec is always fine (people even said that in Cata pre the 15% resto buff) and players are almost afraid that the spec could - god forbid- be op for a tier.

I'm starting to think that many Resto shaman players with that attitude just enjoy, that they can comfortably do mediocre Hps in their raids and get a spot anyway, because of a totem (used to be Manatide, now Spiritlink) or mastery and don't ever want that situation to change. A Resto druid, for example, has to actually deliver Hps or he'll get exchanged.
I for my part want to be brought to raids, because I bring awesome healing power to the maximum of what's possible and not for dropping a wood stick at the right time.

Most Shaman players also tend to over value resto utility by a ton. Even Purge gets glorified when comparing healer utility, while letting completely slip that Resto druids for example not only have tranq, but also a tank cd (and could spec into another output cd if they wanted), or the ton of cds holy paladins bring, without having to pay an output tax for it.

I think Resto output should really be on par with all other specs, not 10% behind. In exchange for SLT, we lack a tank cd, that should be enough. I'm not saying Resto is in a terrible spot right now, "okay" cuts it quite well. But we definitely don't need more nerfs and we could need some more tuning. The legendary ring nerf is understandable (and I'm saying that as an owner of the ring), but the base CH nerf was completely uncalled for imo.

[Gunwolf]

I've been maining a Resto shaman for over 7 years now. I've always wondered about the shaman community. Every nerf is welcomed and of course completely justified, the spec is always fine (people even said that in Cata pre the 15% resto buff) and players are almost afraid that the spec could - god forbid- be op for a tier.

I'm starting to think that many Resto shaman players with that attitude just enjoy, that they can comfortably do mediocre Hps in their raids and get a spot anyway, because of a totem (used to be Manatide, now Spiritlink) or mastery and don't ever want that situation to change. A Resto druid, for example, has to actually deliver Hps or he'll get exchanged.
I for my part want to be brought to raids, because I bring awesome healing power to the maximum of what's possible and not for dropping a wood stick at the right time.

Most Shaman players also tend to over value resto utility by a ton. Even Purge gets glorified when comparing healer utility, while letting completely slip that Resto druids for example not only have tranq, but also a tank cd (and could spec into another output cd if they wanted), or the ton of cds holy paladins bring, without having to pay an output tax for it.

I think Resto output should really be on par with all other specs, not 10% behind. In exchange for SLT, we lack a tank cd, that should be enough. I'm not saying Resto is in a terrible spot right now, "okay" cuts it quite well. But we definitely don't need more nerfs and we could need some more tuning. The legendary ring nerf is understandable (and I'm saying that as an owner of the ring), but the base CH nerf was completely uncalled for imo.

I wasn't even gonna comment on this until you started talking bout Purge.... don't be talking smack bout my Purge yo. It is one of my favorite Shaman abilities and a signature of the class. Only 2 classes have a reliable offensive dispel (that I can remember), shaman and priest, while mage has spellsteal but for high mana cost, and classes like hunter or lock can do it occasionally with the right spec/pets but on a long CD. It used to be OP back in vanilla/BC days, but has been limited since then and each xpac seems to have less reasons to use it.... but when you actually CAN use it properly its still very useful. You can negate a ton of damage from some enemy buff or remove their shields so your party can damage them easier.

Purge, Wind shear, and totems that can stun or snare (boy do I miss grounding and tremor totem) are GREAT utility... all in one package. Are they as good as a tank cd? No.. prob not... but still pretty damn useful. We are one of the few healers left with an interrupt too.

Now, I do agree with you that having a tank CD would be great and it is something we have lacked for a while. I hate when people say SLT is a tank CD... which it kinda can be sure, but then it means you can't use it as a raid CD. Our "niche" is raid healing.... and our "weakness" is tank healing so you could say we were designed that way but I'm not sure if that really makes much sense these days when everyone has certain basic tools to do their job. We're not BAD at tank healing, just not as good as some other healers. So far it hasn't really bothered me that much.... not every healer needs a tank CD.

One other thing that I don't really like is how Ascendance is a talent instead of a baseline ability for ALL Shaman, not just Resto. Ascendance was an important CD that was very useful but now we basically have to choose between that or a better CHL... basically Ascendance for dungeons and high tide for raids. I feel bad for Wellspring ability too.... I have asked for a bursty long range aoe heal for a long time since it was one of the major things we lacked as Resto to deal with spread heals instead of stacked, but now that we have it people don't really use it much lol. Anyways, we don't have much for baseline CD's... just HTT I think... so losing Ascendance really bugged me. Its funny too... we went from complaining that Shaman had no good baseline defensive CD to having a talent for Astral Shift w/ baseline Ascendance.... to baseline Astral Shift and talented Ascendance. Maybe next xpac we will get both Astral Shift and Ascendance baseline.



As for your comments on the Shaman community.... that has not been my experience at all. Shaman have long felt like the underdog and a low priority for Blizz. Now.... its true that every class feels like they are gimp, being ignored, and need buffs or a revamp, but in Shamans case this was true for sometime (IMO atleast). Pally and warlock got TWO different revamps while Shaman did not get ANY until just now in Legion. The closest thing we got was that they finally fixed totems in like wotlk/cata era which was a long overdue update. Nerfs are never welcomed.... we think the nerfs are too much and the buffs aren't enough, just like most other classes honestly. I do agree with nerfs sometimes if it was obviously needed or done for balance where we get both buffs and nerfs... but not just nerfs in general. For chain heal specifically.... honestly I don't think it was needed, it wasn't OP, but I'm not surprised by the nerf either since CHL has always had its ups and downs in every xpac and is constantly tweaked because shaman end up with CHL spam and they want us to use other spells instead.

As for the "everything is fine" comments... these can be harmful at times, esp during a beta or PTR stage where feedback should be encouraged and its prob the best time to get any actual changes done to improve a spell or talent. Sometimes they are right tho.... I often see that its the more skilled/experienced players who make those "everything is fine" claims while the casual or baddie who has low gear/skill is the one complaining when they don't fully understand the class/game or haven't tried it out in all content like raids or M+ dungeons. I have honestly been one of those people at times.... because some of the stuff people bitch about is just ridiculous or unnecessary, but also because I trust Blizz to make the right improvements to the class/game. I've played for a long time and each xpac has Shaman being better then the last..... we went from the "offensive support hybrid" class who was just brought for buffs, did shit damage, and spammed CHL all day to a class that is still a great support hybrid, brings great utility, does great damage and healing, and has a fun playstyle.




Back to the topic of this thread.... I would prob agree with users like Vraull or Schrob that Shaman is still a solid healer, we do bring good utility, and our mastery is very powerful in the right situations. If your raid is at the point where they know the mechanics and avoid lots of damage.... then your job as a healer isn't very important. Any healer can fill that spot and you guys will do fine.... the issue is when you are struggling, when you are progressing or just in a difficult encounter or if something goes wrong. THAT is where healers are the most important and where Shaman shine even more because of our mastery. I think the complaints from some people that their throughput and performance is dropping in raids (that they are farming now instead of progressing) is kinda silly and not all that important. If you're on farm status with no real threats of death.... then why even be concerned about not healing enough? The other healers got it covered... do some spot heals and try to DPS instead or something.

Too many people obsessed with healing meters when those meters don't mean much for a healer. It is not how much you heal overall, but who and when you heal that counts. A druid can spread hots on the whole raid and top meters but if it was your heals that healed the tank from 10% up to 80%, or saved your melee group from dying with proper timing of CHL/SLT/HTT, and so prevented a wipe then you were a crucial help to your guild and the success of the raid... regardless of ur spot on the healing meters, even if u were last place. People keep forgetting that.... its bad enough that DPS have been reduced down to a number, lets not do it to healers too.

[Supliftz]

the shaman mastery is overrated, it really isn't so good (it's good only with cooldowns), there are some fights where raid is low longer times and there still druids excel instead shamans - like mythic dragons and cenarius, or even odin.

lmao only on mmo-champion do you see people suggesting the shaman mastery is overrated

[Sageless]

lmao only on mmo-champion do you see people suggesting the shaman mastery is overrated

The design of mastery is just weird. It is good on progression, when people get low and make mistakes. Once a fight is learned it loses most of its use since players will hardly drop below 90%. Some might say this is fine, I however disagree.

This also means if we can't drop a healer yet (or just don't want to) you are just sitting there seeing your fellow healers still doing decent while your heals barely even move the healthbars. It feels even worse when you are still needed to drop a totem as part of the way a fight is learned and can't even sit out. It's just poor design.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

I think if you're in a position to see content to the point where your mastery is no longer carrying you then you're probably so far ahead that it really doesn't matter until it starts all over again in the next tier where it matters most.

I'd rather start strong to actually help get through content and slow down in farm than start slow and rely on farm to get better.

[ItsTiddles]

The design of mastery is just weird. It is good on progression, when people get low and make mistakes. Once a fight is learned it loses most of its use since players will hardly drop below 90%. Some might say this is fine, I however disagree.

This also means if we can't drop a healer yet (or just don't want to) you are just sitting there seeing your fellow healers still doing decent while your heals barely even move the healthbars. It feels even worse when you are still needed to drop a totem as part of the way a fight is learned and can't even sit out. It's just poor design.

The guild I'm in fixes this problem by also having our healers dps (as in while still a healer). Our healers have a pretty calm/casual attitude on farm that they don't chase me off the meters just to keep people topped 24/7

We are one of the few healers left with an interrupt too.

We're actually the only healer with an interrupt

[Guran]

The guild I'm in fixes this problem by also having our healers dps (as in while still a healer). Our healers have a pretty calm/casual attitude on farm that they don't chase me off the meters just to keep people topped 24/7


We're actually the only healer with an interrupt

This. In fact, our healers are actually trying to compete among eachothers to see who can push out the most damage or combined damage & healing.

[Sageless]

The guild I'm in fixes this problem by also having our healers dps (as in while still a healer). Our healers have a pretty calm/casual attitude on farm that they don't chase me off the meters just to keep people topped 24/7

I've been dps'ing on all fights even on progression as a healer (needed to when we first killed Ursoc / Cenarius). I average a 74% rank on dps (38 kills) which is okay I guess, but overall the damage you do as a healer is so low there is little satisfaction.
And since our healing team is me (resto shaman), two resto druids a holy priest and a paladin, on farm hots are doing most of the work.

It's just not satisfying to heal on farm, and shaman (healer) dps is too low / has no utility to feel like you are helping the raid when you dps instead of heal.
As it is I still enjoy our harder fights (Cenarius is still fun), but am not looking forward to Odyn where we are just in a poor place due to the mechanics of that fight.

But hey, we aren't in the top 3 healer specs on any fight, are 4th overall on EN and 5th overall on ToV, but we bring spirit link totem so we shouldn't complain. It's a good thing they are bringing down chainheal since otherwise we certainly would be OP.