Secret CIA assessment says Russia was trying to help Trump

[Wells]

Because even during the Cold War, shooting down aircraft didnt lead to nuclear war.

Right?! This whole thing is just like....ok then dude.

[Kasierith]

Over trying to enforce a no fly zone over a close ally of Russia with whatever that means. But its not hard to understand that when Russian jets start to fall down and American also, things can lead fast to full out confrontation.

Why are you taking so lightly the danger behind shooting down Russian / American jets? Care to explain to us?

Because exactly like in the situation with Turkey, a few lost planes is pretty considerably low key compared to nuclear war. Putin isnt going to be nuking anyone unless Russia itself is being invaded with the threat of losing everything. I mean.... This stuff is B horror movie levels of tense compared to things like the Cuban Missile Crisis

[Ulmita]

Because exactly like in the situation with Turkey, a few lost planes is pretty considerably low key compared to nuclear war. Putin isnt going to be nuking anyone unless Russia itself is being invaded with the threat of losing everything. I mean.... This stuff is B horror movie levels of tense compared to things like the Cuban Missile Crisis

I am not claiming it would start nuclear war, what i am claimed was it would most probably lead to somekind of very dangerous escalation. Also, don't confuse Russia invading foreign airspace with USAF bombing Russian A/A and shooting down planes. Hilary's plan would make Cold war look like kindergarten fight. Also, dont forget USA is illegally in Syria and its a proper invading force. Russia and Syria are the defending forces there.

[Wells]

I am not claiming it would start nuclear war, what i am claimed was it would most probably lead to somekind of very dangerous escalation. Also, don't confuse Russia invading foreign airspace with USAF bombing Russian A/A and shooting down planes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_U-2_incident

Hilary's plan would make Cold war look like kindergarten fight.

This is a profoundly dumb statement.

[Kasierith]

I am not claiming it would start nuclear war, what i am claimed was it would most probably lead to somekind of very dangerous escalation. Also, don't confuse Russia invading foreign airspace with USAF bombing Russian A/A and shooting down planes. Hilary's plan would make Cold war look like kindergarten fight.

Your last sentence pretty overwhelmingly demonstrates how absolutely out of your depth you are in regards to the Cold War and the highest points of conflict within it. Really no need for further discussion at this point.

[belleflop]

Russia challenges US to prove campaign hacking claims or shut up



They do have a point. When you claim something you need to back it up. Don't you guys think the government should make public their evidence?

It's a lot more complicated that just, flip open the books lets see what you have. There are real human lives at risk (mind you they are risking their lives for your freedoms) if our intelligent agencies/government releases information haphazardly to appease the impatient public. It's important to note that the electors are getting the classified information we aren't privy to yet (at least the ones that requested it), so that they can make a sound decision in regards to following their constitutional oath. If the electors still vote Trump in (which is more than likely to happen) the investigation just doesn't stop there. Like Obama said the response will be measured and calculated and if/when information can be made public it will be. I'm not saying "trust them that they say they have evidence", I'm saying "be skeptical until we have all the information, but also be skeptical of those who immediately want to dismiss (and ignore) the intelligence data with one single sound bite. Use critical thinking skills and formulate sound conclusions based on facts"

[Ulmita]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_U-2_incident


This is a profoundly dumb statement.

That plane was rightfully shot down. Now get this: Bomb several S-300, S-400, Pantsir-S1 installations in Syria maned by 10's of Russian troops, and start shooting down their planes, at tell me when that happened in Cold War.

This was Hillary's plan.

Edit: I forgot about their ports who host destroyers with a/a on them

[Kasierith]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_U-2_incident


This is a profoundly dumb statement.

Remember when your people sent spy planes over our military bases nd we kept on shooting them down until the military tech discrepancy increased? That was fun.

[Ulmita]

Your last sentence pretty overwhelmingly demonstrates how absolutely out of your depth you are in regards to the Cold War and the highest points of conflict within it. Really no need for further discussion at this point.

I agree, you obviously don't know what a no fly zone over Syria would mean and take. No need for further discussion indeed.

[Wells]

Remember when your people sent spy planes over our military bases nd we kept on shooting them down until the military tech discrepancy increased? That was fun.

Super not chill of u gyus to shoot at Bono

[Invrlose]

I generally don't like to reference wikipedia but for the purposes of clarity and because the page is nice and tightly I'll make an exception (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declar..._United_States)

Please note that last time we declared war. All others are considered engagements because you can't declare war on a terrorist organization, only on a foreign nation.
The media coined it this for sensationalism purposes. The word "war" to the media is a metaphor, diminished and insignificant, ie: the war of Christmas, the war on religious, class warfare, culture war, etc.

Lmao you literally are trying to explain away the Iraq and Afghanistan wars that lead to hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths, thousands of dead American soldiers, trillions of dollars of American debt, etc. Holy fuck

[Ulmita]

Lmao you literally are trying to explain away the Iraq and Afghanistan wars that lead to hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths, thousands of dead American soldiers, trillions of dollars of American debt, etc. Holy fuck

The estimated deaths are between 1.2 and 2 millions.
http://www.psr.org/resources/body-co...q-afghanistan/

[Invrlose]

I find it funny that anybody is hammering hillary on her foreign policy when trump has said things like "I don't understand why we don't use our nukes if we have them" and "I think the world would be a better place if saudi Arabia had nukes." When asked about his opinion on the nuclear triad he just fell back in to "make America great the current plan sucks, sad - SAD, my plan will be tremendous BELIEVE ME, TREMENDOUS"

The guy doesn't even know what nuclear triad means and you're lecturing us on hillary Clinton's supposed inevitable nuclear war?

And anyone saying you can just enforce a no-fly zone in Syria without escalating with Russia isn't being honest with themselves.

This election has a lot of people making sad excuses for two shitty candidates.

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The estimated deaths are between 1.2 and 2 millions.
http://www.psr.org/resources/body-co...q-afghanistan/

Yeah man but technically they didn't have a declaration of war so like, it wasn't even a war you feeling me?

[Ulmita]

I find it funny that anybody is hammering hillary on her foreign policy when trump has said things like "I don't understand why we don't use our nukes if we have them" and "I think the world would be a better place if saudi Arabia had nukes." When asked about his opinion on the nuclear triad he just fell back in to "make America great the current plan sucks, sad - SAD, my plan will be tremendous BELIEVE ME, TREMENDOUS"

The guy doesn't even know what nuclear triad means and you're lecturing us on hillary Clinton's supposed inevitable nuclear war?

And anyone saying you can just enforce a no-fly zone in Syria without escalating with Russia isn't being honest with themselves.

This election has a lot of people making sad excuses for two shitty candidates.

I didn't even know he said things like that. I agree 100% that both candidates where sub par. I personally liked Sanders for some reason.
Why can we never have nice things on this planet?

[belleflop]

Lmao you literally are trying to explain away the Iraq and Afghanistan wars that lead to hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths, thousands of dead American soldiers, trillions of dollars of American debt, etc. Holy fuck

I think you misunderstand. I was correcting you about going to war. We never went to war in or on Iraq or Afghanistan. To assume I'm trying to dismiss or diminish something I was a part of during my military service would be disingenuous. I don't use war, veterans, or any tragedy as a prop, political or otherwise. And IMO neither should any of us.

To the topic at hand, and to your original point see my post before this one on how we should be expecting information and what we should do in the interim.

[Invrlose]

I didn't even know he said things like that. I agree 100% that both candidates where sub par. I personally liked Sanders for some reason.
Why can we never have nice things on this planet?

Because the media would rather focus on things like "trump used the word rape!" "Trump swears sometimes!" Instead of "trump said he would use "worse than waterboarding methods of torture even if it doesn't work"" or "Trump literally wants to use nuclear weapons and give them to terror states like saudi Arabia who are currently committing war crimes in Yemen with American weapons"

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I think you misunderstand. I was correcting you about going to war. We never went to war in or on Iraq or Afghanistan. To assume I'm trying to dismiss or diminish something I was a part of during my military service would be disingenuous. I don't use war, veterans, or any tragedy as a prop, political or otherwise. And IMO neither should any of us.

To the topic at hand, and to your original point see my post before this one on how we should be expecting information and what we should do in the interim.

So a full-scale ground invasion and occupation of an country as well as toppling the current regime isn't a war to you? A death toll of at least a million isnt a war to you? The fact that there was never a declaration of war doesn't make it not a war, it just makes it a constitutionally illegal war.

[belleflop]

So a full-scale ground invasion and occupation of an country as well as toppling the current regime isn't a war to you? A death toll of at least a million isnt a war to you? The fact that there was never a declaration of war doesn't make it not a war, it just makes it a constitutionally illegal war.

Correct, both were not wars. Congress did authorize use of military force for both so no constitutional violations were made.

[TexasRules]

I don't believe any of this. Obama said Mitt Romney was dumb for suggesting Russia was our greatest foe. I think this is all lies just to make Mitt Romney look good and get a cabinet post. Obama is the smartest President ever, if he says this isn't the cold war and Russia is not a threat, I believe him. I don't believe I can keep my health plan or my doctor, but by golly I believe him about Russia.

[Ulmita]

I don't believe any of this. Obama said Mitt Romney was dumb for suggesting Russia was our greatest foe. I think this is all lies just to make Mitt Romney look good and get a cabinet post. Obama is the smartest President ever, if he says this isn't the cold war and Russia is not a threat, I believe him. I don't believe I can keep my health plan or my doctor, but by golly I believe him about Russia.

Same here and speaking of, Obama is a highly underestimated president. No one seems to acknowledge and understand that his consistent efforts to avoid an Iran war saved hundred of thousands of lives. I think he should be a model of a president for the next to follow.

[Mormolyce]

FBI Director James B. Comey and Director of National Intelligence James R. Clapper Jr. have backed a CIA assessment that Russia intervened in the 2016 election in part to help Donald Trump win the presidency, according to U.S. officials.

I wonder if that was in the latest security briefing Trump was too smart to attend.

Do you mean to say that he has not hacked or leaked anything recently? Because he's sort of a career hacker. That was kind of his thing before WikiLeaks.

I should more clearly say, I don't know of any significant information he hacked and leaked himself. He was a hacker in his younger days but I'm not aware of anything of note coming from that.

If what WikiLeaks publishes seems partisan it doesn't mean that it is partisan. It could also just as well mean that that is what Assange had available to him and so that's what he published. If he had dirt on Clinton, but didn't have dirt on Trump, does that make him partisan for releasing the information he did have? I don't believe it does.

If you can show me that he had dirt on Trump and kept it secret, then you'll have a good point. Until then, I'm not going to consider what he did to be partisan.

"My next leak will ensure Hillary's arrest". Of course it did nothing of the sort.

Obviously I have no idea what if anything they have on Trump. But the purpose of wikileaks is supposed to be exposing corruption and abuse of power by governments, not participating in smear campaigns against political candidates (Trump or Hillary). Manning released the Iraq War diaries, showing the civilian casualty rates of drone strikes. Snowden released information on secret surveillance programs (incidentally, to the regular press and not wikileaks). These are real abuses of power by world governments. In the case of this election, they released a pile of emails during an election, aimed at a political candidate and containing no evidence of wrongdoing and as such has resulted in the investigation being terminated and no charges being laid, but of course not before doing irreparable damage to said candidate's credibility and likely ensuring the election loss. This is the definition of a smear.

If he had had actual evidence of Hillary abusing her power or engaging in corruption during her time as Secretary of State that would be a different story. Though the timing of the leak would've still been rather curious. I'm not sure what kind of abuses of power he could've even released on Trump, he's not a politician. Maybe bribery or tax evasion? Not really what wikileaks is supposed to be for though. Crooked businessmen are not states. Maybe if he'd had dirty deals with the US government?

Meanwhile wikileaks' relationship with Russia in recent years has been the subject of some serious scrutiny, and their objectivity has been called into question. Example: http://gizmodo.com/wikileaks-may-hav...rom-1786445992

I mean, the guy had a fucking show on RT, the Kremlin propaganda network. I think his conduct has been more than a little suspicious in the last few years. Not even mentioning (((this))) whole scandal.

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Hilary's plan would make Cold war look like kindergarten fight.

I'm not sure what planet you live on, but it sounds crazy.