[7.2] Legion Shadow Priest Guide and Discussion

[Isentropy]

The belt really isn't as absurd as some of you are making it out to be. It's a good legendary, it affects our playstyle in a positive way, but it is not anywhere close to 'needs a hard nerf' territory - especially not when the legendary shoulders are often just as good and situationally better. The echo chamber in regards to the belt and people saying it's by far the best legendary, is simply not correct.

[Dawnrage]

You're highly exaggerating the belt, if you look at the top logs for every boss, around half the spriest there has the belt. You cannot use PI later when you have the belt either. Using PI later is more based on getting good AS procs.

I really am not. Just because top spriests don't have the belt doesn't mean the belt isn't the best legendary for us on ST by a sizeable margin. I also remember looking at mythic guarm logs and most of them do have the belt, so just because a few spriests in the top 20 or w/e don't have it and are there due to having good RNG during surrender (and good RNG with S2M obviously trumps anything else we do), doesn't mean shit.

1) The belt gets you into voidform faster for heroism on the pull. This is huge on several encounters - Mythic Helya for example, where you would be able to get into Voidform asap before the first set of oozes, instead of barely getting there if you are a blood elf or having to burn your 5 min neck that you may not have up between attempts.

2) The belt does help you with later S2Ms. How can you say it doesn't when it essentially makes it so you have two Mind blasts worth of insanity over mind flays GCDs? That's the difference between being able to get 2-3 more stacks (and possibly more if it delays you enough to get you another SW: D charge) before having to use PI. Not to mention during PI at 95+ stacks, the belt prevents situations where if you don't get lucky with AS procs during, you don't have to burn a SW: D proc to stay ahead.

Do tell, what do you think is better than the belt, or just as good on a ST? If you have looked at top logs like you said you have, you would know that the belt gives an spriest way higher burst at the start than an spriest without it. Obviously our damage is not based around that, but on S2M output, and the only spriest I know that is consistently high without the belt is Hanno, off the top of my head. Hanno has always done amazing damage though, and I guarantee you if he was lucky and had the belt, his damage would be through the roof.

The belt really isn't as absurd as some of you are making it out to be. It's a good legendary, it affects our playstyle in a positive way, but it is not anywhere close to 'needs a hard nerf' territory - especially not when the legendary shoulders are often just as good and situationally better. The echo chamber in regards to the belt and people saying it's by far the best legendary, is simply not correct.

Sorry but I disagree, especially when there are logs and you can test out the belt for yourself on the PTR now. The difference is big enough that it's our best legendary easily. Maybe you guys are upset about the whole "nerf our best legendary" thing, but to cite current damage when obviously our biggest contribution to damage at the moment is simply from our S2M period doesn't change what I said - that a priest with the belt is going to benefit heavily from those two situations more than one without. Ideally we have the belt and shoulders, but you would really pick the shoulders over belt for ST?

[Fleckens]

The belt really isn't as absurd as some of you are making it out to be. It's a good legendary, it affects our playstyle in a positive way, but it is not anywhere close to 'needs a hard nerf' territory - especially not when the legendary shoulders are often just as good and situationally better. The echo chamber in regards to the belt and people saying it's by far the best legendary, is simply not correct.

It may not quite as overpowered as some people make it out to be on live, but it is already the best legendary in most cases at the moment and it gets a lot better next patch, playing with and without belt on ptr it's so easy to notice the difference.

[Isentropy]

Sorry but I disagree, especially when there are logs and you can test out the belt for yourself on the PTR now. The difference is big enough that it's our best legendary easily. Maybe you guys are upset about the whole "nerf our best legendary" thing, but to cite current damage when obviously our biggest contribution to damage at the moment is simply from our S2M period doesn't change what I said - that a priest with the belt is going to benefit heavily from those two situations more than one without. Ideally we have the belt and shoulders, but you would really pick the shoulders over belt for ST?

You're more than free to disagree. I am also not disputing that the belt is our best single target legendary, but it is not so far ahead as to make it absurd, or even feel like a necessity. I have the belt myself, but I would be just as happy if I had gotten the shoulders instead. Please bear in mind that you're using Guarm as an example of the belt being overpowered, when that is one of two pure single target fights (counting Nythendra as pure single target as well, which isn't even entirely accurate) that exists in Emerald Nightmare and Trial of Valor. That is, indeed, the best case scenario for the belt - however, as you can see from Insanity's Guarm log it is not a necessity in order to do extremely well on Guarm (Insanity has the legendary shoulders). The belt extending your StM Voidform isn't even all that relevant on Guarm mythic because of how the timing of your Voidforms work out - you do one long Voidform on pull, one normal Voidform, then you go into StM, and the boss will die well before the benefits of the belt really start showing in terms of its Insanity generation. It makes it easier, certainly, but numerical advantages besides the increased Mind Blast damage are not crazy by any means, nor is there much room to get a significantly longer Voidform compared to someone who doesn't have the belt.

The shoulders really start doing work on fights with adds because of how Mass Hysteria works off of Voidform stacks. Your dots get a headstart, you get free haste and you end up getting more Voidform stacks at the end - which is more dot damage at the end of your Voidform compared to someone who doesn't have the shoulders. For StM, the free haste makes the period between 60 - 100 seconds easier as well (not as much as the belt, but still a benefit the shoulders give you) and most importantly, the headstart in stacks it gives you makes it so that you're essentially longer at your damage peak (namely 100 Voidform stacks) even if it doesn't affect Voidform duration itself.

It may not quite as overpowered as some people make it out to be on live, but it is already the best legendary in most cases at the moment and it gets a lot better next patch, playing with and without belt on ptr it's so easy to notice the difference.

Of course it is easy to notice, because the belt is an incredible QoL increase in addition to being good damage-wise. You don't notice the shoulders affect your gameplay. You don't notice the bracers affect your gameplay. That's the big difference in perception for a lot of people I feel like. The belt feels really nice to play with, the rest of our legendaries are merely passive bonuses. That inflates people's opinion of it.

[Deleted]

I really am not. Just because top spriests don't have the belt doesn't mean the belt isn't the best legendary for us on ST by a sizeable margin. I also remember looking at mythic guarm logs and most of them do have the belt, so just because a few spriests in the top 20 or w/e don't have it and are there due to having good RNG during surrender (and good RNG with S2M obviously trumps anything else we do), doesn't mean shit.

1) The belt gets you into voidform faster for heroism on the pull. This is huge on several encounters - Mythic Helya for example, where you would be able to get into Voidform asap before the first set of oozes, instead of barely getting there if you are a blood elf or having to burn your 5 min neck that you may not have up between attempts.

2) The belt does help you with later S2Ms. How can you say it doesn't when it essentially makes it so you have two Mind blasts worth of insanity over mind flays GCDs? That's the difference between being able to get 2-3 more stacks (and possibly more if it delays you enough to get you another SW: D charge) before having to use PI. Not to mention during PI at 95+ stacks, the belt prevents situations where if you don't get lucky with AS procs during, you don't have to burn a SW: D proc to stay ahead.

Do tell, what do you think is better than the belt, or just as good on a ST? If you have looked at top logs like you said you have, you would know that the belt gives an spriest way higher burst at the start than an spriest without it. Obviously our damage is not based around that, but on S2M output, and the only spriest I know that is consistently high without the belt is Hanno, off the top of my head. Hanno has always done amazing damage though, and I guarantee you if he was lucky and had the belt, his damage would be through the roof.



Sorry but I disagree, especially when there are logs and you can test out the belt for yourself on the PTR now. The difference is big enough that it's our best legendary easily. Maybe you guys are upset about the whole "nerf our best legendary" thing, but to cite current damage when obviously our biggest contribution to damage at the moment is simply from our S2M period doesn't change what I said - that a priest with the belt is going to benefit heavily from those two situations more than one without. Ideally we have the belt and shoulders, but you would really pick the shoulders over belt for ST?

The belt is indeed the best on single target. I don't dispute that.

Generally when you are on high stacks you don't have multiple mindblasts waiting for you, the playstyle with or without belt is generally the same in high VF.

There is a big difference on getting into voidform, especially in the opener it's very nice. And just a general DPS increase because you're able to get more Mindblasts throughout the fight.

During PI there is zero difference between having belt and not having belt. You are at zero stacks of mindblast so you just MB - VB - MB , where you have to wait for MB a tad to get of CD, just like without the belt.

[Dawnrage]

The belt extending your StM Voidform isn't even all that relevant on Guarm mythic because of how the timing of your Voidforms work out - you do one long Voidform on pull, one normal Voidform, then you go into StM, and the boss will die well before the benefits of the belt really start showing in terms of its Insanity generation. It makes it easier, certainly, but numerical advantages besides the increased Mind Blast damage are not crazy by any means, nor is there much room to get a significantly longer Voidform compared to someone who doesn't have the belt.

Without the belt, you are using PI at the backend of heroism on Guarm instead of stacking it with heroism at high stacks because the timings are off (at least on alliance side without blood elf racial). When I use PI to reach high stacks, it's basically when heroism has something like 5-7 seconds left, in order to reach a 35+ voidform on mythic Guarm. Having the belt would instead let me stack PI with heroism and getting possibly to much higher than 35 easily. The shoulders do nothing for your heroism burst at all. It's like you said, we basically do one long voidform (which shoulders do nothing for) -> one short voidform (which shoulders help but doesn't really matter) -> S2M (which shoulders give you 7 stacks of and is nice, but I still feel the MB belt outweigh it at that point from damage dealt by your mind blast + insanity generation).

The shoulders really start doing work on fights with adds because of how Mass Hysteria works off of Voidform stacks. Your dots get a headstart, you get free haste and you end up getting more Voidform stacks at the end - which is more dot damage at the end of your Voidform compared to someone who doesn't have the shoulders. For StM, the free haste makes the period between 60 - 100 easier as well (not as much as the belt, but still a benefit the shoulders give you) and most importantly, the headstart in stacks it gives you makes it so that you're essentially longer at your damage peak (namely 100 Voidform stacks) even if it doesn't affect Voidform duration itself.

I have the shoulders, and while they are great, especially for mythic+, I would still prefer the belt after messing with it heavily on the PTR. I realize PTR iteration of shadow isn't the same as current shadow, but belt flows so much better for your rotation and feels more impactful at controlling when you want to dump your insanity gain. Ideally you would have both shoulders and belt, but I don't see how anyone would prefer the shoulders over the belt. The shoulders in current tier content really isn't that great overall, since on most fights, most of your damage dealt is done at the start of fights with heroism and your first voidform (For mythic - Xavius, Cenarius, Ursoc, Elerenthal, Nythendra, Guarm, not even bringing up heroic and normal where the shoulders have 0 impact at all since you would S2M on the pull), and the end with S2M by a huge margin. Getting 7 stacks for S2M is a huge boon and getting to 100 stacks sooner obviously, but the belt when played right does give you a longer S2M than having the shoulders, which may or may not cancel out the 7 stacks you get.

Shoulders are great for Odyn and Helya, but I don't think those two fights are enough to make me want the shoulders over belt (maybe Mythic Helya, but I rather have both hehe).

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I took a look at that insanity guy's logs too Isentropy. His weapon has to be maxed out for his spells to hit so hard and I don't really know how many spriests in the top 10 have theirs maxed out. So IDK, there might be other factors involved besides legendaries.

[Ilir]

Hey !

been awhile since i've checked wow news and stuff. I haven't played my SP for like 2 months (well i haven't played wow for 2 months). Karazhan wasn't out yet when I stopped.

I'm coming back soon tho... anything in particular that i've missed ?

[2Dee]

The belt really isn't as absurd as some of you are making it out to be. It's a good legendary, it affects our playstyle in a positive way, but it is not anywhere close to 'needs a hard nerf' territory - especially not when the legendary shoulders are often just as good and situationally better. The echo chamber in regards to the belt and people saying it's by far the best legendary, is simply not correct.

Can't agree more. I would say overall both the belt and the shoulders give a good increase and some fights one performs better than the other, but to say its mandatory like Unholy DK bracers or Boomkin helm and must be nerfed is absurd.

[Aoewy]

Had a question about consumable usage. With the new stats weight, I'm sitting at 9800 haste and 9100 crit, so mastery is now ahead. Should I use 375 mastery food now, or stick with crit?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...oewin/advanced

[Naga Coatl]

You are all here talking about how good is the belt and I just dropped fucking Prydaz. Now I have Norgannon's and Prydaz. Basically I wasted two "bad luck protections" and it's like having 0 legendaries. I already have a 890 haste-crit neck with socket so it's also even more useless.

Sorry I have nothing useful to say and I just wanted to vent a little bit.

[Isentropy]

The point is Dawnrage, regardless of how convinced you are that the belt is the best, it is not far and away the best. The shoulders are often just as good and situationally better, just as the belt is situationally better than the shoulders. If they nerf the belt, then the shoulders would just take its place as the best if they don't get touched - and then the whining will be about the shoulders instead. Calling for nerfs about it when it actually isn't as insane or game breaking as some of the other legendaries in the game right now seems rather silly to me. If they nerf it, it should be because Blizzard is trying to reduce legendary power level across the board for everyone - which in turn means that the shoulders should be nerfed too. That would be fine, but singling out the belt is not fine.

[Kaesebrezen]

You are all here talking about how good is the belt and I just dropped fucking Prydaz. Now I have Norgannon's and Prydaz. Basically I wasted two "bad luck protections" and it's like having 0 legendaries. I already have a 890 haste-crit neck with socket so it's also even more useless.

Right now Prydaz is imo extremely good on PTR.

First of all they increased all secondaries on necks/rings. That means a 910 neck has a signficant stat upgrade over a 890 neck.
Additionally Prydaz on PTR right now, compared to any other 910 necklace, has ~620 additional secondary stats.
Prydaz has 1247 Haste, Crit and Mastery, plus the socket. This 910 necklace has 1038 on all stats.: http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=141326/t...rei&bonus=3519

So Prydaz has not only a slight DPS advantage due to additional stats, but the proc is also very good in 7.1.5

[Naga Coatl]

Right now Prydaz is imo extremely good on PTR.

First of all they increased all secondaries on necks/rings. That means a 910 neck has a signficant stat upgrade over a 890 neck.
Additionally Prydaz on PTR right now, compared to any other 910 necklace, has ~620 additional secondary stats.
Prydaz has 1247 Haste, Crit and Mastery, plus the socket. This 910 necklace has 1038 on all stats.: http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=141326/t...rei&bonus=3519

So Prydaz has not only a slight DPS advantage due to additional stats, but the proc is also very good in 7.1.5

I know, I was venting because as for now, it's trash. But frankly, I'd like much, much more something that changes the gameplay like the belt, which also offers great QoL like being able to burst down mobs while questing, and giving a massive on demand boost to insanity. The stats on the new Prydaz are nice, but it's an 'invisible' legendary power. The shield is good, but again, it's something passive and while useful doesn't have that 'Yeah' factor that the belt has.

[RsinRC]

Has anyone gotten to the 3rd Vtor on 1 target in the ptr? I'm super close to it but I'm new at StM let alone 3 Vtors. I can get to 10s passed the 100 stacks so far and I'm making mistakes so I'm pretty sure 3 VTor's is still doable.

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Also I'm going to try SI for deep StM rather than AS. Though AS is so good omg.

[Ilir]

rip my first legendary is ... prydaz, long gone are my dreams of the shoulders or belt :'(

But i'm glad it's getting buffed in 7.15

[Deleted]

Unstable Arcano Crystal is a bigger dps increase over any of our legendaries, and should for sure be getting nerfed next patch.

[Vained]

Unstable Arcano Crystal is a bigger dps increase over any of our legendaries, and should for sure be getting nerfed next patch.

No its not lol.

[Jullyx]

Unstable Arcano Crystal is a bigger dps increase over any of our legendaries, and should for sure be getting nerfed next patch.

Someone's been watching Viklund...

He literally said that Arcanocrystal is a bigger dps increase than bis legendaries. To me arcano looks like a ~800 stat increase over an 880 stat stick (which are free for most raiders to loot every week), which has something like 1,7k int 1,1k secondary stats. Maybe a tiny bit better. Of course it's an overpowered trinket, but without running the sims, it feels like he is exaggerating and being biased towards what he doesn't have, as usual.

Basically about as good as the 2pc from CoS/Arcway, which no one raves about.

[Dawnrage]

The point is Dawnrage, regardless of how convinced you are that the belt is the best, it is not far and away the best. The shoulders are often just as good and situationally better, just as the belt is situationally better than the shoulders. If they nerf the belt, then the shoulders would just take its place as the best if they don't get touched - and then the whining will be about the shoulders instead. Calling for nerfs about it when it actually isn't as insane or game breaking as some of the other legendaries in the game right now seems rather silly to me. If they nerf it, it should be because Blizzard is trying to reduce legendary power level across the board for everyone - which in turn means that the shoulders should be nerfed too. That would be fine, but singling out the belt is not fine.

I will concede the point, you are a better spriest anyway and I don't have numbers to back it up, just feelycraft on PTR.

I just want to mention something though, I don't think I ever once called for the belt nerf at all, at least not in the way it's being interpreted. When I mentioned belt with nerf specifically, I was talking about the new legendary cloak, which they nerfed pretty heavily and didn't touch the belt, which I found odd. That's it. I wasn't implying that any of our legendaries should be getting a heavy nerf. The other time I brought it up was about how they would nerf it so it would be at the same level as our other legendaries, so I guess people thought I was calling for a nerf on it? I was just bringing up the fact that they brought many legendaries down to have a more even spread of power among their respective spec, and shadow's didn't really get touched at all, except a huge nerf to the cloak. Sorry if it was taken out of context.

[l33t]

I was just bringing up the fact that they brought many legendaries down to have a more even spread of power among their respective spec, and shadow's didn't really get touched at all, except a huge nerf to the cloak. Sorry if it was taken out of context.

Maybe that has to do something with shadow legendaries being shitty compared to legendaries of other specs? Like you know, both the ring and the belt gives you QoL stuff which should've been baseline years ago, shoulders are just free haste and a new cloak is a carbon copy of warrior's ring which also was nerfed...