Mean Streets of Gadgetzan

[Mahourai]

Hearthstone's payment model is the industry standard, presented very forthrightly. Their free model is significantly better than (for example) MTGO. If you have a problem with Hearthstone's pay model it has to be more substantial than just arguing over whether you can call it a buzzword like pay 2 win.

[Blueobelisk]

Yeh exactly which means hearthstone isint pay2win like others in the thread are saying thats what I meant.

*too tired to respond*

1. OK?
2. Is wallet warrior top meta? As far as I can remember midrange shaman was the only tier 1 deck and that doesn't require 5 legendaries.
3.never said otherwise. My point was that one can be competitive investing min 2 months.

Also adventures are part of hearthstone so I don't really see what's the point in trying to tackle that argument.

*too tired unless you're really interested and demand to continue discussing*

Hearthstone's payment model is the industry standard, presented very forthrightly. Their free model is significantly better than (for example) MTGO. If you have a problem with Hearthstone's pay model it has to be more substantial than just arguing over whether you can call it a buzzword like pay 2 win.

Yes, I agree with you. The model is probably best for making Blizzard money. Microtransactions are definitely big bucks. In fact, I'd guess random phone users spend more than the hardcore Blizzard audience. Playing the game for free is obviously good, too, as far as having a wide player pool.

Idk man, it just feels horrible to see decks and know you can never realistically try them all or even a few. It's not fun sinking everything into one or two good decks just to climb a few stupid ranks.

I would suggest something like paying $10 a month to have access to all cards for that month (and not be able to queue for ranked mode). I just wanna try the fucking cards. I'm willing to pay, but not pay $hundreds$ or even $thousands$.

[Mahourai]

Idk man, it just feels horrible to see decks and know you can never realistically try them all or even a few. I

You can realistically play most competitive decks you see as a free player. Historically the best Hearthstone decks have been powered by cheap cards - basics, commons, and rares - along with Adventure sets which are great value for a free player. Playing the game regularly as a free player gives you a steady supply of dust and cards.

I have never paid a dime for Hearthstone and I have every adventure, I opened 22 packs of the new set day one and I didn't start saving gold until the set announcement was made. If you start sandbagging gold months out, you can open a HUGE portion of the rares and epics in a set at launch. Currently I have 10 Standard decks and the vast majority of cards in them are commons, rares, basic cards, or they only play a few day one crafts. I'm sitting on 6k dust and probably 8-12 non-Standard or horrible legendaries I could disenchant, and when new sets come out I'm not on the outside looking in, I get to pick and choose what new decks I want. Many legendaries and adventures provide redundancy across many decks - eg buying BRM for dragons, Brann and Thaurissan, or crafting Sylvanas.

I would suggest something like paying $10 a month to have access to all cards for that month (and not be able to queue for ranked mode).

If you actually play the game regularly, and spend $10 a month opening packs in addition to quests, you will end up with a goddamn shitload of cards. Not everything, but hell, most things.

[Nikkaszal]

Idk man, it just feels horrible to see decks and know you can never realistically try them all or even a few. It's not fun sinking everything into one or two good decks just to climb a few stupid ranks.

Hi there, I have four ranking decks that are up to date with options on two more that I just haven't bothered building because Pirate Warrior and Pirate Shaman are just not fun to me

I have also crafted fun cards for fuck-around decks, including Raza and Kazakus for my Reno Priest and Mage decks (neither of which rank well atm) and goldens for my entire Reno Mage deck and golden Renounces (1600 dust apiece) for extra hilarity when playing my Renounce deck.

My total real money spent on Hearthstone to date = $10.

And before you try and say "new players don't have this" - no. You're right. New players don't. But I was a new player once. And I had to go through EXACTLY the same grind as a new player starting right now. We all did, at one point.

And you know who I was matched against, when I was new and without a strong collection?

Other new players, and bads. People of a similar winrate to me. People I could beat, with a smart deck of what I had available.

So don't spout your shit about "needing" money to play. You only "need" to spend money for two reasons:

1) you're a fucking idiot who didn't save gold right before a new expac hit
2) you're a new player who wants to bypass the new player experience and throw themselves into the unwashed masses of rank 18 ladder play

Pro-tip - number 2 will never, ever, EVER result in this particular new player automagically getting Legend simply by owning every card

[PPN]

Im so happy that i reached my rank goals in the last 2 seasons, so i dont have to try anymore to climb with all these braindead jade decks. I can just sit on rank 15 and play fun decks meeting jade only every now and then

[Arachnofiend]

Hi there, I have four ranking decks that are up to date with options on two more that I just haven't bothered building because Pirate Warrior and Pirate Shaman are just not fun to me

I have also crafted fun cards for fuck-around decks, including Raza and Kazakus for my Reno Priest and Mage decks (neither of which rank well atm) and goldens for my entire Reno Mage deck and golden Renounces (1600 dust apiece) for extra hilarity when playing my Renounce deck.

My total real money spent on Hearthstone to date = $10.

And before you try and say "new players don't have this" - no. You're right. New players don't. But I was a new player once. And I had to go through EXACTLY the same grind as a new player starting right now. We all did, at one point.

And you know who I was matched against, when I was new and without a strong collection?

Other new players, and bads. People of a similar winrate to me. People I could beat, with a smart deck of what I had available.

So don't spout your shit about "needing" money to play. You only "need" to spend money for two reasons:

1) you're a fucking idiot who didn't save gold right before a new expac hit
2) you're a new player who wants to bypass the new player experience and throw themselves into the unwashed masses of rank 18 ladder play

Pro-tip - number 2 will never, ever, EVER result in this particular new player automagically getting Legend simply by owning every card

You're... not getting matched with other new players, though. Especially if you play in the first week of the month, who-goes-thar-im-in-charge-now is a pretty common occurrence at any rank.

[Nikkaszal]

You're... not getting matched with other new players, though. Especially if you play in the first week of the month, who-goes-thar-im-in-charge-now is a pretty common occurrence at any rank.

Everyone knows the first week of a new season is a shitfight. Thats irrelevant.

[Arachnofiend]

Everyone knows the first week of a new season is a shitfight. Thats irrelevant.

I was seeing meta decks at rank 19 literally yesterday, so...

[Damajin]

Im so happy that i reached my rank goals in the last 2 seasons, so i dont have to try anymore to climb with all these braindead jade decks. I can just sit on rank 15 and play fun decks meeting jade only every now and then

I think some of the Jade cards are useable even outside dedicated Jade decks which is where my interest is. The Druid taunt minion, the Shaman weapon and the Shaman 4 dmg/Rogue 2 dmg combo Jade cards especially. The Panda legendary is going to be good as well since it has both a Battlecry and Deathrattle on top of decent stats. I think you'll see those in other decks besides full Jade decks like you were seeing the C'thun deal 2 damage guy in non C'thun decks for a bit.

I played all the standard Jade decks for a few days and them shelved them, was fun but gets stale after awhile. Playing the Aggro Secret Mage that has been seen here and there and doing a few different Pally decks since I still need to level up to 60 on it. Haven't settled into a deck yet for sure.

[Pantalaimon]

I was seeing meta decks at rank 19 literally yesterday, so...

Yet there is a reason those decks are at rank 19 instead of between legend and rank 5. Either they're barely starting their climb, or the players are terribad and haven't grasped the net deck they threw together. If it is the latter then new players won't have a big deal facing them. For new players it would be akin to good players using a bad deck.

[Deldavala]

I just have to say, even with the little play I get due to abit shitty internet here in China MSoG has been amazin. Its very nice to have a meta with Miracle rogue at the top again, and the deck variety is still on the high side after an expansion(Still missing a decent Paladin and Hunter deck though).

[Rhamses]

I just have to say, even with the little play I get due to abit shitty internet here in China MSoG has been amazin. Its very nice to have a meta with Miracle rogue at the top again, and the deck variety is still on the high side after an expansion(Still missing a decent Paladin and Hunter deck though).

Only decent Paladin deck I've seen was one that was running double Rag and Tirion.

[Advo]

Renolock seems poised to be the one deck that can realistically beat everything else at once. Can beat aggro through aoe (demonwrath, hellfire, kazakus) or cheap taunts like bruiser. Beats combo by pulling out their clutch cards with dirty rat and removing it, or with its own combos. Beats late game decks like druid and priest by simply out-valueing.

[Tenris]

Renolock seems poised to be the one deck that can realistically beat everything else at once. Can beat aggro through aoe (demonwrath, hellfire, kazakus) or cheap taunts like bruiser. Beats combo by pulling out their clutch cards with dirty rat and removing it, or with its own combos. Beats late game decks like druid and priest by simply out-valueing.

Its currently a tier 1 deck along with pirate warrior and aggro shaman so the only tier 1 deck that aint aggro or running patches. Thats according to tempostorm anyway.

[Mahourai]

Blizzard going in on singleton decks is pretty shortsighted. When Reno rotates out these decks are going to become totally nonviable, as the "extra life" effect is the reason you can get consistent performances out of a singleton deck. Sure, you can draw the perfect answers randomly every now and again, but being able to heal to full to ensure you don't HAVE to do that is what makes the decks tick. Reno Jackson should be a base set card if they wanted to keep the singleton design going.

[Pantalaimon]

Blizzard going in on singleton decks is pretty shortsighted. When Reno rotates out these decks are going to become totally nonviable, as the "extra life" effect is the reason you can get consistent performances out of a singleton deck. Sure, you can draw the perfect answers randomly every now and again, but being able to heal to full to ensure you don't HAVE to do that is what makes the decks tick. Reno Jackson should be a base set card if they wanted to keep the singleton design going.

Yeah, I'm pretty confused by the decision as well. I'm assuming that they think that the archtype will be able to stand alone when Reno rotates out, but I highly doubt it. Even Renolock will drastically fall in consistently when they can't stall with Reno as their fall back. Personally I expect to see the meta turn into the last meta, basically aggro versus the other deck (in this case Jade Druid since Reno decks won't threaten it anymore?).

On a side note, what will Reno decks like Reno Lock even be called with no Reno in standard? :P

[Twoddle]

Blizzard going in on singleton decks is pretty shortsighted. When Reno rotates out these decks are going to become totally nonviable, as the "extra life" effect is the reason you can get consistent performances out of a singleton deck. Sure, you can draw the perfect answers randomly every now and again, but being able to heal to full to ensure you don't HAVE to do that is what makes the decks tick. Reno Jackson should be a base set card if they wanted to keep the singleton design going.

Calling Blizzard shortsighted? They look far into the future when designing cards, multiple expansions ahead. Cards will rotate out and new cards will rotate in, the game will change.

[Pantalaimon]

Calling Blizzard shortsighted? They look far into the future when designing cards, multiple expansions ahead. Cards will rotate out and new cards will rotate in, the game will change.

If Blizzard were to replace Reno for the archtype they would need to make a pretty strong card because let's be honest the other single card activators are pretty weak in comparison to what Reno does for having only one of each card (Krul is an exception on paper, but is awful if you have to play him into Brawl or an Equality combo).

[Jester Joe]

Yeah, I'm pretty confused by the decision as well. I'm assuming that they think that the archtype will be able to stand alone when Reno rotates out, but I highly doubt it. Even Renolock will drastically fall in consistently when they can't stall with Reno as their fall back. Personally I expect to see the meta turn into the last meta, basically aggro versus the other deck (in this case Jade Druid since Reno decks won't threaten it anymore?).

On a side note, what will Reno decks like Reno Lock even be called with no Reno in standard? :P

I swear Reno was mentioned to be on their list of cards that they were considering adding to the basic card list so he doesn't rotate out, but it's probably going to be hard as heck to find that interview.

Also either they'll be named after whatever other big card is activating that effect in the deck, or they'll continue on being "Reno" decks, with Reno just being acknowledged as a deck that has 1 copy of each card. I mean, it's happened in other card games (Ex- MtG and Millstone, Millstone being the original "Discard the top two cards of your deck", so the effect is now just known as milling your opponent).

Or so the legend goes.

[Mahourai]

Calling Blizzard shortsighted? They look far into the future when designing cards, multiple expansions ahead. Cards will rotate out and new cards will rotate in, the game will change.

Blizzard hasn't really demonstrated capable long-term planning and curating for the Standard format. Only one rotation has occurred so far and I doubt anyone wold call the post-Old Gods meta up until now terribly healthy. They keep printing Beast Druid cards pushing an archetype that is never viable. They printed Patches. They believed that Purify would power a new era of gimmick spell priest decks. They nerfed Blade Flurry in order to open up Rogue weapon design space and then failed to print weapons for the next three expansions.

Singleton decks need this specific effect, not more random bombs like Raza and Kazakus, which are nice but cannot carry the archetype by themselves.