Electoral College voted Trump

[Elegiac]

1. Name a single nation that does not have flaws...I'll help you out...doesn't exist and never will.

Strawman, I never claimed there was.

2. You have to completely be blind to history to think that America doesn't improve itself.

It does, often in spite of itself. There are points in history where it has regressed, however.

3. Nobody "oppresses" minority's in this country. You are just a "sucker" who fell for the media's propaganda.

Aside from all the people trying to disenfranchise blacks, reduce womens' access to reproductive health, rescind gay rights, et cetera.

Want proof? We have a BLACK man who was voted in not once...but twice.

I'm not sure how a black man being voted into office means racism is over.

Shit on minority's? Wow...you are clueless...nobody shits on them except themselves...of course that is what happens when you have 70% of black family's that do not have a father. That is what happens when instead of doing better next time because you failed...you instead blame some invisible white man for your failure....because it COULDN'T have anything to do with the fact that you just...didn't try or were too lazy.

We're talking about social phenomena here, not individual ones.

I am proud of America and I will always be proud of it and if that offends you....GOOD.

I'm willing to bet you live in one of the parasite states.

[darkwarrior42]

because in America everyone should have a voice...not just the coastal states....typical of a leftist communist to ask that question though.

You should try getting over your own bias to look at reality. It would help a lot.

In case you're actually willing to look at reality: the electoral system, as it stands, gives a larger proportional vote to smaller states, similar to the manner in which the Senate gives a larger voice to smaller states. However, in states with a large majority of members in a single party, the members of the opposing party effectively have no voice. For instance, in California and New York, republicans have effectively no voice in the presidential election; those states always vote Democrat, and since the state's majority favors the Democrats, that's how the electoral votes go. No consideration given to the republican votes.

In relation to the actual question asked, @Didactic: The actual issue comes down to State vs Federal rights. Those who favor the rights of states believe that each state should have the right to choose how to run their own affairs, but still be bound by common federal laws; ostensibly, each state should then be equal in the union, because each state is conducting their own affairs. If a small state has the right to choose their own laws, for example, it's unfair for a larger state to have a larger voice in an election that will have very real consequences for the small state.

(Of course, I personally favor Federal rights in anything that's not purely regional, for a variety of reasons... but getting into that discussion would probably be off topic even more. Suffice to say, I would prefer a popular vote to the electoral college, and if we simply revised the electoral college I would favor some manner of proportional representation.)

[Xires]

This is exactly why Putin wanted Trump in. He wants to put the USSR back together, with him in charge. You can bet that as soon as Trump get into office, and starts backing out of NATO, all those little countries in Eastern Europe are going to find themselves annexed by Russia. It's basically going to be Crimea x10.

Trump said that NATO needs to honor their agreement to use a certain amount of their GDP for military spending and they aren't doing it. As it is the only teeth behind NATO is the US. Trump has come out and said he wants NATO to exist but he believes that the 28 nations need to pay their share instead of 1 country (the US) footing the majority of the bill AND its defense.

As it is right now the Russians can take eastern Europe in 3 days or less and their is NOTHING NATO can do about it because they are unprepared. I don't want to risk American lives for Europe...especially after all the hate and bigotry that comes from Europe in regard to the US.

[Elegiac]

Trump said that NATO needs to honor their agreement to use a certain amount of their GDP for military spending and they aren't doing it. As it is the only teeth behind NATO is the US. Trump has come out and said he wants NATO to exist but he believes that the 28 nations need to pay their share instead of 1 country (the US) footing the majority of the bill AND its defense.

Why is this a bad thing, exactly?

As it is right now the Russians can take eastern Europe in 3 days or less and their is NOTHING NATO can do about it because they are unprepared. I don't want to risk American lives for Europe...especially after all the hate and bigotry that comes from Europe in regard to the US.

Implying that the US doesn't deserve it.

[Xires]

You should try getting over your own bias to look at reality. It would help a lot.

In case you're actually willing to look at reality: the electoral system, as it stands, gives a larger proportional vote to smaller states, similar to the manner in which the Senate gives a larger voice to smaller states. However, in states with a large majority of members in a single party, the members of the opposing party effectively have no voice. For instance, in California and New York, republicans have effectively no voice in the presidential election; those states always vote Democrat, and since the state's majority favors the Democrats, that's how the electoral votes go. No consideration given to the republican votes.



In relation to the actual question asked, @Didactic: The actual issue comes down to State vs Federal rights. Those who favor the rights of states believe that each state should have the right to choose how to run their own affairs, but still be bound by common federal laws; ostensibly, each state should then be equal in the union, because each state is conducting their own affairs. If a small state has the right to choose their own laws, for example, it's unfair for a larger state to have a larger voice in an election that will have very real consequences for the small state.

(Of course, I personally favor Federal rights in anything that's not purely regional, for a variety of reasons... but getting into that discussion would probably be off topic even more. Suffice to say, I would prefer a popular vote to the electoral college, and if we simply revised the electoral college I would favor some manner of proportional representation.)

Well, no shit Sherlock....

"as it stands, gives a larger proportional vote to smaller states," as it should be and that is my point. If we went by mob mentality Commiefornia and New York would decide every election and they ALWAYS vote communist.

[Deleted]

This is exactly why Putin wanted Trump in. He wants to put the USSR back together, with him in charge. You can bet that as soon as Trump get into office, and starts backing out of NATO, all those little countries in Eastern Europe are going to find themselves annexed by Russia. It's basically going to be Crimea x10.

Western European countries would look the other way.

[Mad_Murdock]

Hint: It's not the rural areas of Texas which are growing.

Moreover, this is why Texas is likely to become a swing state in a few cycles. The increased urbanisation means that the state is becoming bluer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...on_growth_rate

Only West Virginia had a .48% population drop, every other stated gained. So where is the mass exodus?

[Xires]

Why is this a bad thing, exactly?



Implying that the US doesn't deserve it.

Because America should not be footing the bill for the bulk of Europe's defense?
No, America doesn't deserve it and fuck you for thinking so. I think we should leave Europe to its own defense and watch how you people come running to us when the Russians roll right across you. You people are disgusting.

[Elegiac]

Because America should not be footing the bill for the bulk of Europe's defense?

Again, according to who? The US gets quite a lot of benefit from having the EU in its sphere of influence and allowing those countries to invest in their economies versus the military.

No, America doesn't deserve it and fuck you for thinking so. I think we should leave Europe to its own defense and watch how you people come running to us when the Russians roll right across you. You people are disgusting.

I live in the US.

[Zan15]

The EC exist so that California and New York don't dictate every election. How some people don't understand this is beyond me.

So instead florida, ohio and PA get to dictate every election.
How some people don't understand this is beyond me.


How do they get to dictate every election, if they are 11% of the population, they get to dictate 11% of the election.

So you penalize people for living together and give them a vote that is worth 60% of someone in WY because......there is more of them?


Instead you get a whole party to ignore the needs of the biggest and 3rd biggest state since they know they will never win the EC votes. They get neglected and shunned even though they make up 20% of this countries output/GDP.

[Xires]

More specifically, it's meant to act as a failsafe against populist demagogues.

You know, like Donald Trump.



If North Carolina or Florida hadn't swung red, none of those states would have mattered.



But instead it's totally okay for rural voters to impose their will on the urban majority. Go figure.



So it wasn't flag burning that cost her the election, like you said?

Not true and Trump has 306 votes to prove it.
Flag burning was PART of the reason she lost because we saw that her and her supporters were anti-American and wanted to change us into the shit show that is Europe.

It took an almost completely red map to get the votes that Donald needed. Nice try trying to twist my words though...more leftist communist tactics.

[Paranoid Android]

Well, no shit Sherlock....

"as it stands, gives a larger proportional vote to smaller states," as it should be and that is my point. If we went by mob mentality Commiefornia and New York would decide every election and they ALWAYS vote communist.

All you do is rant about two states. I didn't know two states carried all the electoral votes for the Dems.

Many have already stated the irony. You trash CA/NY, cities and coastal states, yet somehow rural states are the bastion of all things America.

[darkwarrior42]

LOL! Xenophobe? You mean NOT wanting illegals to enter my country? Oh no's!!!!!! So evil!!!!! (sarcasm)
Nationalism? You mean it is now a BAD thing to be proud of your country and NOT want it to be diluted with other cultures that bring nothing to the table except their own hatred? This is why you lost...because YOUR side keeps burning flags and you want America to cease to exist.
When you come to MY country YOU need to adapt to OUR way of life...not the other way around...we are NOT Europeans and unlike Europe we are proud and will stay that way.

REPUBLICANS ARE NOT THE ONLY PEOPLE ALLOWED TO BE PROUD OF THEIR COUNTRY.

Being liberal with social policy, not being Christian, believing in freedom of speech and freedom of expression (even, and especially, the ones that piss you off).... none of these preclude you from being patriotic. Being willing to look at, even learn from, other countries doesn't mean that you're not patriotic. Being xenophobic is not a requirement for being patriotic ("other cultures that bring nothing to the table except their own hatred", before you contest that word again.)

There are many reasons I tend to hate a lot of Republicans, but things like this rank among the highest... this overwhelming arrogance that comes from not only being patriotic, but believing that your beliefs are the only way to be patriotic, so that you use your own beliefs as a self-righteous sword against those who disagree with you, turning close-minded arrogance into a self-imagined moral high ground atop which you are completely unassailable... in your mind, because you're right, but in the minds of everyone who doesn't join in your beliefs, because you're so wrapped up in your arrogance that there is no way to actually communicate with you. Either we agree with you or we're the enemy.

On every piece of currency we use is written the motto "E Plurbis Unum", out of many one. A completely secular representation of the core ideal that led to the nation: we had many different ideas that came together, being stronger together than any of them were alone. I am confused at how it somehow became "patriotic" to discard that ideal and instead insist upon monolithic uniformity.

[Elegiac]

Not true and Trump has 306 votes to prove it.

Him winning the electoral college does not make him any less of a populist demagogue.

Flag burning was PART of the reason she lost because we saw that her and her supporters were anti-American and wanted to change us into the shit show that is Europe.

Which is why a majority of Americans voted for her. Riight.

It took an almost completely red map to get the votes that Donald needed. Nice try trying to twist my words though...more leftist communist tactics.

Geography translates to population now, apparently.

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

1. Must be qualified and/or have relevant experience for the position - he does not (he lacks the primary capability for starters - that of diplomacy), he lacks the self control and the willingness to do the job (e.g. Intel briefings).
2. Must not be a demagogue or populist candidate who appeals to the lowest in people - he fails here so badly it isn't funny.
3. Must not be have any direct foreign control - he fails significantly here in that he is already doing favours in return for Trump business advantages in foreign countries.

Another one not mentioned in the original (few hundred year old) requirements is nepotism, that is against most commonly held rules - yet Trump is giving 3 major roles to his children who are participating in international government discussions AND are the ones now running Trump's businesses.

As an example - the worst president I ever experienced, George W Bush passed ALL of those tests.

This guy is on a hilarious roll.

I do agree with GWB though, the rest is just opinion stated as fact.

[Xires]

So instead florida, ohio and PA get to dictate every election.
How some people don't understand this is beyond me.


How do they get to dictate every election, if they are 11% of the population, they get to dictate 11% of the election.

So you penalize people for living together and give them a vote that is worth 60% of someone in WY because......there is more of them?


Instead you get a whole party to ignore the needs of the biggest and 3rd biggest state since they know they will never win the EC votes. They get neglected and shunned even though they make up 20% of this countries output/GDP.

PA was a BLUE state that went red. Florida and Ohio are swing states which means they can go either way. What you are proposing is that a few DEEP blue states and swing states dictate every single election.

- - - Updated - - -

Him winning the electoral college does not make him any less of a populist demagogue.



Which is why a majority of Americans voted for her. Riight.



Geography translates to population now, apparently.

You realize that you have no facts on that and it is just left wing opinion, right?

[Elegiac]

You realize that you have no facts on that and it is just left wing opinion, right?

"A demagogue /ˈdɛməɡɒɡ/ (from Greek δημαγωγός, a popular leader, a leader of a mob, from δῆμος, people, populace, the commons + ἀγωγός leading, leader)[1] or rabble-rouser is a leader in a democracy who gains popularity by exploiting prejudice and ignorance among the common people, whipping up the passions of the crowd and shutting down reasoned deliberation."

He seems to fit the definition to a tee.

[Xires]

Him winning the electoral college does not make him any less of a populist demagogue.



Which is why a majority of Americans voted for her. Riight.



Geography translates to population now, apparently.

Majority of californians voted for her...not the same thing considering most Californians aren't real Americans and don't even consider themselves to be.

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

You realize that you have no facts on that and it is just left wing opinion, right?

Left wing opinion is considered fact by other liberals and left wingers, hence the state we are in and the proliferation of echo chamber fake news.

[Elegiac]

Majority of californians voted for her...not the same thing considering most Californians aren't real Americans and don't even consider themselves to be.

So you'd be okay with California, Oregon, Washington, and possibly Nevada just up and leaving, then?