Anyone else - broken immersion in Legion?

[ketsui]

I quit playing back in late October due to multiple reasons, but for me, the biggest one was that WoW no longer felt like a world, or that I was being transported to another world. It felt like a video game, instead of something that truly immersed me.

Let me explain. In the past, when you had repetitive content, there was some narrative structure to it, even if it was still grating overall for certain factions. Looking at you, Golden Lotus. Now, aside from Suramar, WoW's most basic level of repetitive content, world quests, have NO narrative structure. "Kill the harpies." "Click the squirrels." "Go collect bear livers." "VIKINGS GRARRR GO KILL MURLOCS. No I won't explain why this village is important other than dropping a name." Randomly assigned every day. On the whole, nothing truly connected to the faction, the way say the Klaxxi were and felt in MoP. It's like in their desperation to fill out the WQ ranks in 4 of 5 zones, they forgot to make me care about them, or the factions post leveling storyline plot, which is especially puzzling since they showed they could do a decent to good job with Suramar's repetitive content. So instead we get owl clicking and harpy killing, when there's literally a portal to the Emerald Nightmare in the same zone.

The next issue is, repetition of the same content that's not been seen at this level before in WoW. It feels more like Diablo. Besides WQs, the main culprit: Mythic+. If you were casual, and likely to never step foot in Mythic 20 mans, you could kind of ignore the four raid difficulties problem in WoD, but the over saturation of this repetitive difficulty design was no longer escapable with the advent of Mythic +. At least with raids, it's once a week for each difficulty, period. But Mythic+ need never end! And that's the problem: endless "gameplay", that both makes it abundantly clear you are playing a game instead of being in another world, and doesn't have an "end point" like old grinds for rep, badges, Valor or Justice Points did. No incoming "Yes, finally, I bought x from the vendor." It's just praying for RNG to bless you.

When I played the dungeon on the first three difficulties, I could at least still feel like I was in that dungeon's little sub world. Maybe each time before Mythic I was accessing a "fake" version before accessing the "real" version on Mythic. But I found my immersion broken down increasingly by the prominently visible timer, the key in my bags, the game bold facedly telling me, "This is what has changed numbers wise. You are now on X difficulty." UD Strat runs, ZA and other timed content of the past gave you a reason for the timer, even if it was usually "They're going to execute prisoners!" The accompanying debuff on you in Strat and Shattered Halls was a nice way to do it but still remain immersive. And challenge mode was for cosmetics only. Now, it may as well be a sticky note on your computer screen that says, "Remember you're playing a game." It's no longer flipping a switch behind the scenes for hard to very hard, it's outright telling us we're flipping a switch in the game physically. It doesn't blend in to the world the way Ulduar difficulty switching did.

Even without the immersion issue above, repetition brings its own immersion issues. I burnt out very rapidly, clearing the same exact place on normal, then a bunch on heroic, then more on Mythic, only for WoW to go, "Haha, guess what, bitch, you're going to be doing these same dungeons on Mythic+ even after clearing the latest raid on Heroic!" And the worst part is, it's mainly because of the new super RNG loot system and legendaries. And I found it increasingly difficult to feel immersed going from one difficulty that was practically soloable by the tank in good gear (Heroic) to suddenly the same enemies having gotten a contrived power boost from a keystone.

The launch raid Emerald Nightmare was alright, and not as susceptible to the repetition factor because of the weekly lockout. But it's not "enough" to just raid anymore. And RNG was a bitch just within the time I played - Titanforged and Legendaries have no indicator status on how close you may or may not be to one. For fuck's sake, there's a reason why workplaces let you see your pay stub or account - it's so you can feel progress! I'd quit my job if they started saying, "Now, we might pay you 10 times normal next pay period, or not at all. Decided by random chance. Just... keep working for us for another year, and I am sure it will all balance out."

Basically, if it feels like I am playing a video game while playing, and a very capricious one at that, instead of interacting with another world alongside other adventurers, then WoW has failed to live up to its original draw: WORLD of Warcraft. I am not sure if Legion was the first time this was broken, having missed most of Warlords, but it sure felt broken to me.

I'm almost positive you didn't fully clear all the quests in each zone if this is how you feel. Otherwise you'd know exactly the purpose of nearly all except for perhaps the Kirin Tor world quests, which are a tiny bit vague. But other than that you'd know why you get certain reputations for each zone when doing the world quests in them, how come they exist and who the talking tree dude is.

If you did clear all the quests then you wouldn't be posting this. Funny thing is i quit too in november but I know exactly why I had all exalted reputations. Also you'd almost feel attached to clearing the emerald nightmare

Stop spouting misinformed underquested BS

[Thrif]

If you value immersion in video games, MMORPGs and WoW in particular was never a good choice.

Also, impressive that those are your issues, but not the whole everyone is the chosen one with legendary weapons, often exact copies of the same one.

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there barely was a story in vanilla

One of the reasons it was so good. It was more of a toolbox to create your own. And I've sure got a ton of 'em.

Better than Blizzard trying to force an imaginatively drained and cliche-ridden linear to-the-extreme storyline down your throat.

[Deleted]

If you value immersion in video games, MMORPGs and WoW in particular was never a good choice.

Also, impressive that those are your issues, but not the whole everyone is the chosen one with legendary weapons, often exact copies of the same one.

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One of the reasons it was so good. It was more of a toolbox to create your own. And I've sure got a ton of 'em.

Better than Blizzard trying to force an imaginatively drained and cliche-ridden linear to-the-extreme storyline down your throat.

honestly vanilla was awesome.. because you where rarely told where to go

instead you had to get up and get your ass out the zone and explore to find quests

in some ways of course, it was worse and in other ways it was much better

wow currently its extremely linear - though legion is slightly better compared to previous expansions

[skitz0129]

Nothing about WoW has ever been immersive. There are very few games in existence that are actually immersive by definition. It has never existed in any MMO. Every MMO ever is checkbox list and by the numbers, effectively a spreadsheet with a UI and some 3D models thrown on top. The very antithesis of immersion.

[Cæli]

If you value immersion in video games, MMORPGs and WoW in particular was never a good choice.

Also, impressive that those are your issues, but not the whole everyone is the chosen one with legendary weapons, often exact copies of the same one.

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One of the reasons it was so good. It was more of a toolbox to create your own. And I've sure got a ton of 'em.

Better than Blizzard trying to force an imaginatively drained and cliche-ridden linear to-the-extreme storyline down your throat.

Of course WoW is a good choice to get immersion, play it at night in a dark room, it works.
Unless a racing game for instance or a shooter where you always have to go fast, or whatever, in WoW you can just sit and watch the landscape, just chill, perfect game for that.

[Thrif]

Of course WoW is a good choice to get immersion, play it at night in a dark room, it works.
Unless a racing game for instance or a shooter where you always have to go fast, or whatever, in WoW you can just sit and watch the landscape, just chill, perfect game for that.

Yes, a landscape of strategically grouped and respawning enemies, where three The Highlord of the Paladins runs through with their cloned Ashbringers and shouts ANAL <Random achivement>.

I guess it's different for different people, but for me immersion has zero to do with the speed of the game and everything to do with suspense of disbelief. Overwatch is a much more immersive game to me than WoW ever was, and Unreal Tournament is one of the most immersive games I ever played.

[Cæli]

Yes, a landscape of strategically grouped and respawning enemies, where three The Highlord of the Paladins runs through with their cloned Ashbringers and shouts ANAL <Random achivement>.

I guess it's different for different people, but for me immersion has zero to do with the speed of the game and everything to do with suspense of disbelief. Overwatch is a much more immersive game to me than WoW ever was, and Unreal Tournament is one of the most immersive games I ever played.

take WoW as a single player game, when you do group content you obviously don't feel the same thing when playing alone, you don't get that feeling of solitude in which you get pleasure from experiencing the very essence of the game

unreal tournament is interesting from what I've seen, though I don't see anything in overwatch that can be described as immersive, it's a multiplayer game, how can a multiplayer game be even immersive if it doesn't let you have this particular link between yourself, alone, and what the developers tried to express through a video game

[Redroniksre]

honestly vanilla was awesome.. because you where rarely told where to go

instead you had to get up and get your ass out the zone and explore to find quests

in some ways of course, it was worse and in other ways it was much better

wow currently its extremely linear - though legion is slightly better compared to previous expansions

Replace all of that with check Thottbot or Alakazham and you have a real story. Vanilla was nice back when i played it, but i much prefer the linear plotted stories of Cata plus.

[Heladys]

There's a hundred times more immersion than vanilla.

[Osmeric]

I'm not sure how anyone could be immersed even in Vanilla, when the entire world was 30 scale miles across, if that.

[Deleted]

Nah, it's been the same since vanilla. "My farm has been overrun by these bandits!" -> Kill the bandits -> A year later they are still there

I've learned to ignore it long time ago.

[Selastan]

there barely was a story in vanilla

and the story in TBC ... i was completely unaware of it if there even was one

Its implied storytelling rather than narrative storytelling. Kind of like Bethesda does with the Elder Scrolls. Even when there aren't ten journals littered around a dungeon, if you pay attention you can learn what happened there. Implied storytelling is better for an open world game, especially an MMO, but unfortunately it went right over a fair amount of players' heads. So now we have linear storylines in each zone/continent. And it sucks.

[Pull My Finger]

TL;DR.

Having that said, WoW has only become more and more immersive for me over the years. This is down to two factors:

# The presentation is just becoming better and better and better. Nowadays, Blizzard is so damn skilled in creating these enchanting and captivating zones and composing music that you can just get completely lost in. Also, storytelling in Legion is finally interesting and cool again.

# I have very little to do with the usual idiots that play WoW and get caught up in their bullshit very rarely. I also choose not to obsess over crap and play the game mechanically like everyone else does.

Stop using this "immersion" term all the time. It's not something that's served to you while you're passively sitting on your ass, staring on a computer screen. Immersion is, to a great extent, an effort of your mind.

[Thrif]

unreal tournament is interesting from what I've seen, though I don't see anything in overwatch that can be described as immersive, it's a multiplayer game, how can a multiplayer game be even immersive if it doesn't let you have this particular link between yourself, alone, and what the developers tried to express through a video game

Again, different for different people. You seem to equate it with being mindful of the surroundings, I equate it with a suspension of disbelief. Being a multiplayer game has never bothered me, since that just means you interact with people behaving humanly and intelligently. In shooters, anyway, where most of the communication is done through actions.

Like, Unreal Tournament could actually happen. It's not a big stretch of the mind to imagine it. Overwatch could sort of happen too, although it's much harder to envision due to all the colorful characters. WoW could never in a gazillion years happen, and everytime I see it I just see a big social tool with tons of numbers crunching and some decent visuals.

Now sure, maybe if I traveled to an uninhibited island and turned off all chat windows and just walked around I'd be fairly immersed, but immersion in and of itself has no meaning unless the experience is satisfying, and that experience would be pretty boring.

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Its implied storytelling rather than narrative storytelling. Kind of like Bethesda does with the Elder Scrolls. Even when there aren't ten journals littered around a dungeon, if you pay attention you can learn what happened there. Implied storytelling is better for an open world game, especially an MMO, but unfortunately it went right over a fair amount of players' heads. So now we have linear storylines in each zone/continent. And it sucks.

Amen. 10chars.

[Tanthoris]

Close, but it was actually Cataclysm for me, with all the redone zones full of memes and garbage.

This is basically how I've felt about immersion in wow, although I will say that during MoP I was pretty immersed in the story, but that died in WoD.

Legion has done a better job at making an immersive story, as long as you can look over the whole; you alone are the chosen one, in this MMORPG, there is no one else that can save us, the millions of other players aren't really there, you alone wield the most powerful weapon in the universe. It gets a bit silly trying to make characters into near god like heroes when there are thousands of us per server in that particular world.

WoW Immersion has over the years had it's ups and downs and right now I'd say Legion is probably in the lower mid of that overall level, peaking in WotLK and lowest in Cata/WoD.

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Stop using this "immersion" term all the time. It's not something that's served to you while you're passively sitting on your ass, staring on a computer screen. Immersion is, to a great extent, an effort of your mind.

Immersion is a great combination of the story, the created world(the environment), the music, the interactions with NPCs AND how your imagination rolls it all together. If the world is crap, it's harder to create the immersion in your mind, for some.

[Deleted]

I had a feeling of immersion and sense of wonder for the first year or so of vanilla.

[JemiS]

On top of world quests making sense if you did all the quests in a zone (they explain *why* things are where they are), all WQs have voice overs explaining what you need to do, and why. They also have flavor at the end giving context and wrapping things up.

Whether it's Odyn talking about a tiny village over-run by Murlocs and what it used to be like back in the day, or the tree-dude telling you he feels better without the vampire corruption, they do give context to what you're doing. Makes me wonder if people just play with the sound off? Just like people don't read quest text?

[Coldfire989]

Agreed nothing really new at the end of the day. Just a lot of stuff taken from Diablo 3 and slapped in WOW to make it seems like new stuff. Also the WQ are horrible as they are all things you already have done. Not to mention the pile of garbage they turned a lot of the classes into and how they killed alts all in one fel swoop.

[kary]

Agreed nothing really new at the end of the day. Just a lot of stuff taken from Diablo 3 and slapped in WOW to make it seems like new stuff. Also the WQ are horrible as they are all things you already have done. Not to mention the pile of garbage they turned a lot of the classes into and how they killed alts all in one fel swoop.

Alts aren't dead though.
Also, you can always quit and never look back
THAT WONT HAPPEN THOUGH LOL