China's Navy seizes American underwater drone in South China Sea

[xenogear3]

I always LoL when people say "Middle East and Japan are US allies".

I don't think Japanese will ever forget that 2 nuclear bombs.

[Shadowferal]

I always LoL when people say "Middle East and Japan are US allies".

I don't think Japanese will ever forget that 2 nuclear bombs.

I always LOL when people post their ignorance.

[namecraft]

Until congress gets involved. And don't think they won't. The economy would get all fucked up if there's any serious confrontations.

Kinda funny...Russia still sells weapons and nuclear tech all over the place including China and Iran.

it's only funny when america sells weapons to terrorists

[stomination]

I always LoL when people say "Middle East and Japan are US allies".

I don't think Japanese will ever forget that 2 nuclear bombs.

Its hard to not be a U.S ally when you trade with them and have Military bases there too. And you are right...they wont forget the 2 nukes dropped on them after attacking us. Hell I'm quite sure they will remember its quite nice to be our ally instead of our enemy.

[Shadowferal]

it's only funny when america sells weapons to terrorists

Missing the point.
And serious confrontations between the US and China is gold to Russia.
Playing the "opposition" against each other is an old game. The US and China have been cozy up to each other economically for years now, while Russia has been given the beat stick sanctions since Crimea. Now Russia has its hand in the game that everyone sees...but no one sees the other hand.

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Its hard to not be a U.S ally when you trade with them and have Military bases there too. And you are right...they wont forget the 2 nukes dropped on them after attacking us. Hell I'm quite sure they will remember its quite nice to be our ally instead of our enemy.

Even better.
The US for decades now have encouraged Japan to develop its own military (Yes, that means dropping one of the articles of surrender made back in WWII) But Japan has refused time and time again. They point back at those articles but the real reason is that it would cost too much and better to have US forces around (despite public opinion in Japan) to soak up the costs of defense. Currently Japan does have "some" military, but nothing serious. (Because that would lead to another reason why...it would excite China. And China always gets "excited" when they look in Japan's direction)

[Kellhound]

China stole it by giving it back to the US?

The US is blowing the whole situation out of proportion. The US has been using the excuse of Sea Exploration to keep track of Chineese Submarines in the regions. They even used Civilian Fishing Trawlers before to drop monitoring equipment. The Waters in the area is shallow and Chinese Submarines are easily tracked until they get into deeper Oceans.

Guess were the Drone was picked up? In the Shallow part that Submarines often have to traverse to get to deeper waters.

If China were to start using Underwater Drones, sensors around routes American Submarines use to get into deeper water. You can bet your ass the US would respond in the same way.

Actually, it is easier to track subs in deeper water than in the littorals, that is why the US conducts oceanographic research to improve our understanding of the water conditions. Plus, being international water, the US is fully in its rights to trail Chinese subs in any manner with impunity.

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No you couldn't. Technically it would beome a rightful target for the Philippines to seize it as soon as it entered 12 miles off its coast. Neither China nor the US should even be allowed inside the 200 mile exclusive economic zone range of Phillipines coasts.

The 12 mile limit is the ONLY limit that regulates actual state water.

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None of which changes the fact all experts on the matter consider Hong Kong as being one of the top export destinations of China, and an autonomous region.

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Do you even know what Subic Bay is? It is a US Naval Base. lol

Subic Bay is a FORMER US naval base returned to the Philippines decades ago.

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Any ships can legally enter the EEZ. Only the territorial sea (12 nautical miles) is offlimits to other countries military ships without permission. The territorial sea is regarded as the sovereign territory of the state and it confers full sovereignty over the waters to that country. The EEZ is merely a "sovereign right" which refers to the coastal state's rights below the surface of the sea, such as regarding the exploration and use of marine resources, including energy production from water and wind, as well as who owns the rights to drill for oil in that area.

Actually, ships can exercise innocent passage without permission.

[Deleted]

Actually, ships can exercise innocent passage without permission.

Then what stops Chinese trawlers from going into other countries waters and poisoning all the fishes in an unseen way?

[Deleted]

ruhh rohhhh who would have guessed pissing off China would lead to some bad stuff. Keep rattling that saber Republicans.

What's the alternative? Bend over and let them do as they want?

[xenogear3]

Missing the point.
And serious confrontations between the US and China is gold to Russia.
Playing the "opposition" against each other is an old game. The US and China have been cozy up to each other economically for years now, while Russia has been given the beat stick sanctions since Crimea. Now Russia has its hand in the game that everyone sees...but no one sees the other hand.

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Even better.
The US for decades now have encouraged Japan to develop its own military (Yes, that means dropping one of the articles of surrender made back in WWII) But Japan has refused time and time again. They point back at those articles but the real reason is that it would cost too much and better to have US forces around (despite public opinion in Japan) to soak up the costs of defense. Currently Japan does have "some" military, but nothing serious. (Because that would lead to another reason why...it would excite China. And China always gets "excited" when they look in Japan's direction)

Just before Pearl Harbor, Japan was the strongest US ally.

Japan is very good at fooling Americans.

[Deleted]

Just before Pearl Harbor, Japan was the strongest US ally.

Japan is very good at fooling Americans.

You probably pissed them off enough for them to decide to switch sides.

[Kellhound]

Then what stops Chinese trawlers from going into other countries waters and poisoning all the fishes in an unseen way?

That, by legal definition, would not be innocent passage.

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Just before Pearl Harbor, Japan was the strongest US ally.

Japan is very good at fooling Americans.

Just before Pearl Harbor the US was hitting Japan with trade restrictions, hardly "strongest ally".

[Deleted]

Just before Pearl Harbor the US was hitting Japan with trade restrictions, hardly "strongest ally".

Maybe, if you had instead allied with them at that point, you wouldn't have to fear China today.

[Kellhound]

Maybe, if you had instead allied with them at that point, you wouldn't have to fear China today.

Instead we would have to worry about an even stronger and militaristic Japan...........

[Deleted]

Instead we would have to worry about an even stronger and militaristic Japan...........

But an allied one? Unless you decided to antagonize them during the years afterwards, then that would be your own fault.

[Mistame]

Maybe, if you had instead allied with them at that point, you wouldn't have to fear China today.

We don't have to fear China today. Both economies would be fucked without the other.

[Kellhound]

But an allied one? Unless you decided to antagonize them during the years afterwards, then that would be your own fault.

An alliance with Japan in 1939 would have gone the same was as the German-Soviet alliance.

[Thunderball]

It's kind of like how Russia did their plane trolling until someone had enough and shot down one of their planes. Not that much spying, except trying to look at peoples response time, but if one plays the game, there's always a chance that someone calls it.

Bad example, deploying your ships were they have no place is trolling by itself. But if you had, for example, an AWACS plane pretending to be a passenger flight (happens all the time by the way, it's actually a primary reason why most AWACS design are based on passenger aircraft) you would totally deploy fighters. Also, the only purpose those drones have is direct unconcealed spying: recording images and sonar signatures of enemy warships, sabotaging and infiltrating underwater communication channels, possibly placement of mines.

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Until congress gets involved. And don't think they won't. The economy would get all fucked up if there's any serious confrontations.

Kinda funny...Russia still sells weapons and nuclear tech all over the place including China and Iran.

And some proof on the nuclear tech please, those are very serious accusations.

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An alliance with Japan in 1939 would have gone the same was as the German-Soviet alliance.

If you mean Molotov-Ribentrop Pact then it's not an alliance in any way. Also, that kind of agreement between US and Japan would've won the war for Germany and allies in a heartbeat, as Japan, not having to deal with the US and splitting the Pacific, would've attacked Russia right away, and we all know that war on two fronts means.

[Kellhound]

Bad example, deploying your ships were they have no place is trolling by itself. But if you had, for example, an AWACS plane pretending to be a passenger flight (happens all the time by the way, it's actually a primary reason why most AWACS design are based on passenger aircraft) you would totally deploy fighters. Also, the only purpose those drones have is direct unconcealed spying: recording images and sonar signatures of enemy warships, sabotaging and infiltrating underwater communication channels, possibly placement of mines.

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And some proof on the nuclear tech please, those are very serious accusations.

AWACS aircraft use civilian airframes (especially 707/737/767 based ones) for cost reasons, not to hide. (Not that you can hide a transmitting AWACS anyway.) The same reason US maritime patrol aircraft are based on civilian airliners (Electra and 737).

Japan had other issues beyond the US in the Pacific, and it would have needed the US to turn a blind eye to Japan attacking countries we already were friendly with. It is something that would never have happened.

[Azadina]

Maybe, if you had instead allied with them at that point, you wouldn't have to fear China today.

So you think US should have joined Japan in it's extermination crusade in China?

[Gorgodeus]

Subic Bay is a FORMER US naval base returned to the Philippines decades ago.





Actually, ships can exercise innocent passage without permission.

Beginning in June 2012, the Philippine government said that the United States military could use the old base, as long as prior approval was granted by the Philippine government.

Only civilian ships are allowed "innocent passage" inside territorial waters.