Did blizzard mention anything about making feral's gameplay more enjoyable in 7.1.5?

[Deleted]

I enjoy ferals. I have enjoyed feral ever since Savage Roar was introduced.
I have mained it for 8 years and I really hope they do not change the way the spec works.

If they wan't to make it more fun to play they can remove the Regrowth as a part of the rotation because it makes no fucking sense at all.

[Zanzha]

guys...stop fucking responding to the asshole. jesus he goes away for so long then we reply and he starts spouting nonsense again.

It's funny tho

[Hobbes0773]

It's funny tho

It was funny 3 months ago. shit is old now. responding to that asshole fills makes this place a cesspool that keeps people from posting. It hurts the forums. We seriously need to stop responding to him.

[teddabear]

I'm on at all hours and they are answering at all hours. You obviously got told off for being an asshole (like you have here) and got banned.

As usual you are wrong. I don't go there anymore because i have no reason to.

[Tradu]

I enjoy ferals. I have enjoyed feral ever since Savage Roar was introduced.
I have mained it for 8 years and I really hope they do not change the way the spec works.

If they wan't to make it more fun to play they can remove the Regrowth as a part of the rotation because it makes no fucking sense at all.

Pretend it's a button that gives your next 2 abilities +50% damage and ignore the healing aspect. Could use a macro that changes the icon if it upsets you that much.

[Hobbes0773]

Pretend it's a button that gives your next 2 abilities +50% damage and ignore the healing aspect. Could use a macro that changes the icon if it upsets you that much.

I'd just like it if the ability proc'ed off of entangling roots

[Cantor]

Teddabear has been a troll on these forums for as long as he's been here; every expansion that comes out, he thinks the spec was ruined and should go back to the previous version. According to him, Feral is the worst spec in the game and every other spec can do what we can do, but more easily and with better results (which obviously isn't true). Whitepaw is also quite negative about the spec, but at least he doesn't troll like tedda does.

[teddabear]

Very few accurate statements there. Feral was excellent in 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 5.2.1 and 5.3. There was an issue in some previous expansions after Bearcat was removed that Rogues were far more capable, but I would not say that was the case at all so far in this expansion. Feral is certainly a mess in Legion but so are most specs. Talent trees, Artifacts and Legendaries are a wreck for most if not all specs. Most specs have been purged, stripped and dismantled to the barebones. If you have nothing better to do with your time than have at it, it's your life.

[Deleted]

i mis cat-bear spec. That was the shit i loved.

[RelaZ]

I realize this is a PvE thread but from a PvP perspective these are some things I want to discuss regarding 7.1.5:

Oh actually before I begin I just want to say that yes, I understand that Feral might be overpowered in the new patch with these new things - but damage can always (and should) be tuned down in order to counter that. Feral toolkit simply needs to be expanded with skillful abilities, as it stands right now we're literally just damage bots.

1) Cumbersome DPS rotation. I understand BT is a decent mechanic in PvE (although lots of people seem to disagree), however the problem is it's so much better than the other talents on that tier that is basically mandatory even in PvP. This leads to several problems, number one being a wierd damage rotation compared to Feral PvP rotations of old, having to wait with using heals because "it's not optimal damage" is stupid and promotes the "damage over all else" gameplay of Legion. Second issue (bigger) is that it basically removes the use for PS to be able to root. Not using PS on Regrowth is a massive waste (damage wise) and thus the skillful play (CC) is again downplayed in favor of pure DPS this expansion. Bloodtalon needs to be subpar in PvP, it's such a horrible and wierd mechanic which counteracts everything Feral PvP used to be about.

2) Enraged Maim is on the wrong DR school, and slightly retarded. Just bring back Cyclone (not castable in form) and Ferals are good. We don't need another short cd instant CC in the game. Cyclone is a miles better option for the game than Enraged Maim. Bringing back Cyclone raises Feral skill cap 10x more than any other change they could do, and raises the fun-part of the spec in PvP (all PvP Ferals I've asked agree with me on this). Also bringing back Cyclone makes more CC-based comps viable in arena again, moving us away from all this "spam damage and win" that has been Legion PvP so far. If they're afraid we might get too powerful with it they could make it so that combined in the same talent it makes our combo points "on the player" again, effectively nerfing/stopping the new cleave bleed bot strategies of Legion Feral comps (FPS/FLS). Another solution would be replacing King of the Jungle with Cyclone and keeping Enraged Maim in.

3) Thorns and Malorne are really good additions that will add some depth back to the spec. Fresh Wound need to be replaced by something else tho, it's absolutely useless. Swapping Fresh Wound and Savage Momentum might be decent for the time being.

[Deleted]

Pretend it's a button that gives your next 2 abilities +50% damage and ignore the healing aspect. Could use a macro that changes the icon if it upsets you that much.

Tradu it does not upset me. I just think there could be better and more fun ways of implementing blood talons for us.
There is almost never a case where I use it for the heal itself, I just use it for the modifiers.

If I were in a situation where I would need the small amount of instant healing it does before I was ready to use rip/rake/ashamanes it would most deffinatly cost me a whole lot of damage.

[Deleted]

Now, we finally get to the single target damage, where feral is supposed to shine, right? Well, there are numerous class and specs who will do better damage than you with half the effort. It feels bloody demoralizing to execute tactics well, to do my rotation well, and still have MM hunters, fire mages and rogues beat me.

if mm hunters and fire mages are beating you single target the issue isn't with feral.

i like feral just fine, i've tried both assassination and enhance as well, which is probably the next 'go to' spec after feral, but they're just so damn easy.
doing Guarm on my enh I almost got carpal tunnel pressing stormstrike 8 times in a row, and then refreshing 3 maintenance buffs only to then continue casting stormstrike is... zzzzz...

Same as assassination, it's only slightly more interesting in dungeons when you can spread rupture about, but then it's basically FoK spam and fish for poison bomb. even worse with agonizing poison, the rotation is so watered down and simplified it just makes me feel... ugh.

I like feral where it is ty, you can confidently say that it's the most difficult spec to play, and for those that enjoy challenge then they have the option of playing it.

Why don't you take blood scent, incarnation, sabre tooth and moment of clarity if it's too hard for you?

[Whitepaw]

if mm hunters and fire mages are beating you single target the issue isn't with feral.

i like feral just fine, i've tried both assassination and enhance as well, which is probably the next 'go to' spec after feral, but they're just so damn easy.
doing Guarm on my enh I almost got carpal tunnel pressing stormstrike 8 times in a row, and then refreshing 3 maintenance buffs only to then continue casting stormstrike is... zzzzz...

Same as assassination, it's only slightly more interesting in dungeons when you can spread rupture about, but then it's basically FoK spam and fish for poison bomb. even worse with agonizing poison, the rotation is so watered down and simplified it just makes me feel... ugh.

I like feral where it is ty, you can confidently say that it's the most difficult spec to play, and for those that enjoy challenge then they have the option of playing it.

Why don't you take blood scent, incarnation, sabre tooth and moment of clarity if it's too hard for you?

Because it has subpar performance ofc.

No, having a convoluted dps rotation is NOT harder - and pls stop presuming that those of us who want changes to Feral gameplay do so because we think it's too "hard". Most of us just think it's not very well designed.

The problematic abilities are Savage Roar, which is a boring selfbuff that has been almost annihilated from every other spec except Feral (Slice and Dice is still a talent for Outlaw, but no one in the Rogue community is arguing for "take this, because we like to play with stuff that holds us back", which is basically what it does) and Blood Talons. A heal effect tied into a snapdotting mechanic? Really?

Savage Roar could have been something fun - instead it's just something that keeps us from using Ferocious Bite on a regular basis. So the oldest finisher a Feral has in this game is now the one that is used the least. And our offhealing, which was something we used on a regular basis until WoD, is now pruned to near extinction and can only be done for a few casts, until we go OOM - and we have to leave catform to do it. Yes, Regrowth on a PS timer is nice - the fact that it's tied into being a major damage buff is bad design.

Oh, and by the way: Being so dps focused, why don't you find another class to play? Druids are hybrids, not single target bots.

[Zanzha]

Because it has subpar performance ofc.

No, having a convoluted dps rotation is NOT harder - and pls stop presuming that those of us who want changes to Feral gameplay do so because we think it's too "hard". Most of us just think it's not very well designed.

The problematic abilities are Savage Roar, which is a boring selfbuff that has been almost annihilated from every other spec except Feral (Slice and Dice is still a talent for Outlaw, but no one in the Rogue community is arguing for "take this, because we like to play with stuff that holds us back", which is basically what it does) and Blood Talons. A heal effect tied into a snapdotting mechanic? Really?

Savage Roar could have been something fun - instead it's just something that keeps us from using Ferocious Bite on a regular basis. So the oldest finisher a Feral has in this game is now the one that is used the least. And our offhealing, which was something we used on a regular basis until WoD, is now pruned to near extinction and can only be done for a few casts, until we go OOM - and we have to leave catform to do it. Yes, Regrowth on a PS timer is nice - the fact that it's tied into being a major damage buff is bad design.

Oh, and by the way: Being so dps focused, why don't you find another class to play? Druids are hybrids, not single target bots.

Those of us, we, most of us,
You think, in your opinion. you believe.

Who the fuck gave you the right to speak on the behalf of everyone, almost every post in this thread vehemently disagrees with you, do not even dare to claim you speak for the majority. And not just myself but other players who unsurprisingly are all actually a part of the feral community at large.

The guy was just being polite about saying that the other dude wasn't very good at feral, the class itself performs very very well and easily stomps firemages on raid encounters.



convoluted
ˌkɒnvəˈl(j)uːtɪd
adjective

1.(especially of an argument, story, or sentence) extremely complex and difficult to follow.



So, yeh its too hard/complicated for you ok, good to know.

Most maintenance buffs that removed were just fire and forget. SR and managing its uptime / combo points has been a part of the specc since forever. You have the option to not take it if you really dislike it.

People have been focused on dps because thats what this entire argument has centered around, because people like you have for some reason been complaining that your dps numbers on one of the highest dps speccs aren't high enough. Honestly its probably to get rid of the idiotic hybrid tax argument that people keep bringing up when pure dps classes don't perform. We still have offhealing, its just not a full replacement for a healer like hotw tranq's could be it's hayday, its called off-healing for a reason.

[Tradu]

Because it has subpar performance ofc.

No, having a convoluted dps rotation is NOT harder - and pls stop presuming that those of us who want changes to Feral gameplay do so because we think it's too "hard". Most of us just think it's not very well designed.

The problematic abilities are Savage Roar, which is a boring selfbuff that has been almost annihilated from every other spec except Feral (Slice and Dice is still a talent for Outlaw, but no one in the Rogue community is arguing for "take this, because we like to play with stuff that holds us back", which is basically what it does) and Blood Talons. A heal effect tied into a snapdotting mechanic? Really?

Savage Roar could have been something fun - instead it's just something that keeps us from using Ferocious Bite on a regular basis. So the oldest finisher a Feral has in this game is now the one that is used the least. And our offhealing, which was something we used on a regular basis until WoD, is now pruned to near extinction and can only be done for a few casts, until we go OOM - and we have to leave catform to do it. Yes, Regrowth on a PS timer is nice - the fact that it's tied into being a major damage buff is bad design.

Oh, and by the way: Being so dps focused, why don't you find another class to play? Druids are hybrids, not single target bots.

Hybrid means nothing, Feral is a DPS spec. Also the entire Outlaw spec is centered around a RNG fiesta maintenance buff, SnD is there to opt into less DPS but getting rid of the RNG.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd just like it if the ability proc'ed off of entangling roots

Right, it being limited to JUST Regrowth is definitely an issue, it should be any PS-cast ability as well as Regrowth hardcasts(or I guess any hardcast, doesn't really change much)

[Whitepaw]

No, Zanzha - there are a few in this thread who disagrees with me. And just like them, I am entitled to have my opinion and voice it.

And I will. Hopefully, that will make Blizzard take a good and hard look at SR and BT and rethink both those two mechanics and what's left of our hybrid gameplay.

[Kaeth]

Who the fuck gave you the right to speak on the behalf of everyone

Apparently he forgot to ask you -- with your staggering 87 posts on this forum, 13 of which (15%) are in this very thread -- for a license to voice his opinion. I'm sure he'll make sure to ask a nearby forum newbie for permission to speak in the future.

almost every post in this thread vehemently disagrees with you, do not even dare to claim you speak for the majority.

This echo chamber in which you and others hurl vitriol at Teddabear and shout down Whitepaw doesn't speak for the majority, either. None of us can ever be sure how many druids hold any particular opinion of the present state of feral spec, but you and a few other similarly rude posters are the ones I see in this thread implying that they represent the majority.

Whitepaw's wording suggested only that he/she assumes some other players share his/her opinion, which is unquestionably true (unless you're of the belief that everyone enjoys this current janky train wreck of a spec). Nothing in that post implied that he/she was claiming agreement from the majority of druids. But perhaps you're just easily triggered by the thought that even two or three other people might not enjoy this hot mess of a dps rotation which you hold so dear.

The guy was just being polite

You seem to like posting definitions. You also seem to have misunderstood this one:

po·lite
pəˈlīt/
adjective
1. having or showing behavior that is respectful and considerate of other people

Most maintenance buffs that removed were just fire and forget. SR and managing its uptime / combo points has been a part of the specc since forever.

Forever? Or maybe since the Wrath of the Lich King pre-patch, or 3.0.2, when feral started to go downhill. Inquisition (the old retribution maintenance buff) was introduced an entire expansion later (4.0.1) and retired with the Warlords pre-patch (6.0.2). Like Savage Roar, it consumed "combo points" (Holy Power) and added little more to the rotation than a really enjoyable "keep this up to not suck" element. No, I guess it didn't play into DoT snapshotting gameplay. So at least it had that going for it. But it was retired ... to great fanfare from the ret community.

You have the option to not take it if you really dislike it.

False choice. You have the "option" to take a massive hit to your dps to make a spec enjoyable? And then be excluded from most serious endgame content? (Feral has a hard enough time getting into Mythic+ as it is). Awesome. No, if you're going to play feral and play it well, you have to learn SR + BT snapshot gameplay and deal with it. That's basically what I do, because I love my druid as a tank and a healer, and I have to have a dps offspec to go with them. Even if it plays like crap with clunky game mechanics from 2008 and has shit-tier AoE. It puts out good numbers, right?

[Zanzha]

Apparently he forgot to ask you -- with your staggering 87 posts on this forum, 13 of which (15%) are in this very thread -- for a license to voice his opinion. I'm sure he'll make sure to ask a nearby forum newbie for permission to speak in the future.

Do you genuinley believe the value of someone's opinion is tied to their postcount on a forum? Excuse me while i go shitpost in Offtopic or General some more to inflate my post count so that I have credibility.

I've been floating around and involved with ferals for quite some time since around the latter half of MoP, though I haven't been quite as vocal on forums about it until recently. IN part because at the time the only discussion was the circlejerk about being sad that snapshotting going away, but simeltaneously agreeing that it was toxic for the health of the game, but also mostly because at the time I was on the other end of the stick, the one refusing to run the correct talents because I was scared by the prospect of using them and doing poorly over the easier ones. I was the one asking for help with log analasys etc trying to improve, and you know what it payed off, I learned, and improved, within about a month it became second nature and started parsing amongst the top 50 or so ferals, since then its been onwards and upwards and I will genuinley help anyone to the best of my ability that wants it.

This guy doesn't, he wants to blame the class for his performance and that's something I cannot stand for.

Sorry to say but most competetive games, (take a look at mobas) do not balance around play at the lowest level.

This echo chamber in which you and others hurl vitriol at Teddabear and shout down Whitepaw doesn't speak for the majority, either. None of us can ever be sure how many druids hold any particular opinion of the present state of feral spec, but you and a few other similarly rude posters are the ones I see in this thread implying that they represent the majority.

Whitepaw's wording suggested only that he/she assumes some other players share his/her opinion, which is unquestionably true (unless you're of the belief that everyone enjoys this current janky train wreck of a spec). Nothing in that post implied that he/she was claiming agreement from the majority of druids. But perhaps you're just easily triggered by the thought that even two or three other people might not enjoy this hot mess of a dps rotation which you hold so dear.

Of course some people will share that opinion, but claiming that most do is a somewhat brash statement.
When you're actually active within the feral community you tend to be exposed to many more opinions funnily enough most of the people we come into contact with want to get better at the class rather than complaining that it doesn't suit their specific vision.
I don't have any issue with people not liking it, I have issues with false claims about its viability and numbers potential.

You seem to like posting definitions. You also seem to have misunderstood this one:

po·lite
pəˈlīt/
adjective
1. having or showing behavior that is respectful and considerate of other people

I mean yeh, the guy saying that the problem was with the player in the instance of loosing to a fire mage on a raid encounter was a pretty gentle way of telling him that he's doing something wrong.
I never said I was being polite in that particular post. For most of the thread though I'd like to think I've kept my cool.

Forever? Or maybe since the Wrath of the Lich King pre-patch, or 3.0.2, when feral started to go downhill. Inquisition (the old retribution maintenance buff) was introduced an entire expansion later (4.0.1) and retired with the Warlords pre-patch (6.0.2). Like Savage Roar, it consumed "combo points" (Holy Power) and added little more to the rotation than a really enjoyable "keep this up to not suck" element. No, I guess it didn't play into DoT snapshotting gameplay. So at least it had that going for it. But it was retired ... to great fanfare from the ret community.

So the expansion that actually allowed feral to be viable as a dps specc and not just something you played while levelling or an abomination of an off tank is when we started to go downhill. Ok, sure, lets roll with that.
.
Yet funnily I doubt we would have the same fanfare from Ferals. Or rather just like it is now you'd have cheering from lower tier players while the high end would not only resent them further but outcry about such a core ability being removed, theres a reason why it's a talent now I know many who were annoyed by wod where it basically became passive due to the interaction with incarnation and the spell being baseline. Savage roar plays a huge role in ferals energy management.

False choice. You have the "option" to take a massive hit to your dps to make a spec enjoyable? And then be excluded from most serious endgame content? (Feral has a hard enough time getting into Mythic+ as it is). Awesome. No, if you're going to play feral and play it well, you have to learn SR + BT snapshot gameplay and deal with it. That's basically what I do, because I love my druid as a tank and a healer, and I have to have a dps offspec to go with them. Even if it plays like crap with clunky game mechanics from 2008 and has shit-tier AoE. It puts out good numbers, right?

The option is still there, in a lot of circumstances SR isn't even the best talent to run for m+ unless your able to properly abuse predator in which case it's uptime becomes a non issue due to the near infinite energy you have. SoTf is only around a 8% dps loss on single target, sure a loss, but no one that will haemorrhage your viability, if anything it will just move you from top of the pile to middle of the pack. (unless you aren't already in that position with SR, which again returns to the numbers not being the fault of the specc) Sounds like you should play balance offspecc or a different hybrid then if your expecting to get good results out of feral with minimal effort / time investment, because that's not how the specc has worked for quite some time.

The game play is some of the best we've had it, we are no way near as energy starved as WoD, our aoe is the best it's ever been, and our single target is almost unmatched. And yet somehow now is when everyone is deciding to complain.

[axxey]

The guy was just being polite about saying that the other dude wasn't very good at feral, the class itself performs very very well and easily stomps firemages on raid encounters.

Which encounters are you playing?


If Ashmane's bite wasn't cancer RNG to performance ranking I'd maybe still be playing feral.

[kickne1]

Lol at the aoe being the best its ever been. Its no where near what it was in WotLK. I didnt play Cata/MoP/WoD so maybe it nosedived in those xpacs, but this 'AoE' is shit tier relative to others compared to what it was in WotLK also relative to others. The discrepancy between our aoe and, say, a fire mages or marksman hunter is far larger than the discrepancy between our ST damage and the single target dmg of those same classes.