Havoc in Legion: 7.2.5 Guide

[ohlins]

I only play Havoc as OS, but its damn annoying you have to place Meta on the ground like any other spell.. There are so many places where the ground is uneven and u cant use it.. Is there some way you can use it without the ground-slam?

There are so many places where you want to place your ability and the game just won't allow you. I keep getting hit by that FUCKING ANNOYING 'no path available' message on my shaman and demonhunter. Can't even put a damn sigil or totem down without having to retry 5 times.

[Xiahz]

How much of a loss is using Prepared compared to DB? DB kinda frustrates me since when it doesn't proc it feels like I can't do anything

[Accendor]

How much of a loss is using Prepared compared to DB? DB kinda frustrates me since when it doesn't proc it feels like I can't do anything

For me it is a 20% DPS loss (yeah, that much) but I highly doubt this number is true for everyone.
Also: Have you tried playing DB with Fel Blade?

[Xiahz]

For me it is a 20% DPS loss (yeah, that much) but I highly doubt this number is true for everyone.
Also: Have you tried playing DB with Fel Blade?

I haven't actually. Is Fel Blade viable?

[Accendor]

I haven't actually. Is Fel Blade viable?

In a perfect world where you play your character at 100% at all times and have Anger of the half giants, Fel Blade is inferior. Not extreme, but you will see a difference. In any other case however, you will see very, very good results with Fel Blade. And don't be blinded by false pride, most people, even when raiding in mythics guilds, are not playing their character at 100%.
Just give it a try for 1-2 Raids and you will see that the playstyle is really enjoyable and will probably increase your DPS by a lot. Srsly, after you have done that you will understand why many people in this thread say that Fel Blade should be baseline.

[Juvencus]

In a perfect world where you play your character at 100% at all times and have Anger of the half giants, Fel Blade is inferior. Not extreme, but you will see a difference. In any other case however, you will see very, very good results with Fel Blade. And don't be blinded by false pride, most people, even when raiding in mythics guilds, are not playing their character at 100%.
Just give it a try for 1-2 Raids and you will see that the playstyle is really enjoyable and will probably increase your DPS by a lot. Srsly, after you have done that you will understand why many people in this thread say that Fel Blade should be baseline.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Fel Blade as an ability both for the Fury and the utility. Also I'm quite far from playing at a 100%.

Been raiding with it for a few raids and I found it quite nice but as soon as I got AotHG last night (yey!) I noticed that I was overcapping fury all the time. My point here is that maybe Bloodlet is better after you get the ring even if you are not a perfect player.

On the other hand maybe my noobiness caused the overcappings...

[Accendor]

Don't get me wrong, I really like Fel Blade as an ability both for the Fury and the utility. Also I'm quite far from playing at a 100%.

Been raiding with it for a few raids and I found it quite nice but as soon as I got AotHG last night (yey!) I noticed that I was overcapping fury all the time. My point here is that maybe Bloodlet is better after you get the ring even if you are not a perfect player.

On the other hand maybe my noobiness caused the overcappings...

No, actually with Anger Fel Blade becomes way worse than before because overcapping is a real issue. Then it is really fight depended, e.g. on Odyn Fel Blade is still awesome (because of the additional mobility and because the fury gen from DB is not so consistent because you have to move a lot) but after getting Anger you will most likely not use Fel Blade anymore for the majority of the encounters.

7.15 will be different again because DB is getting nerfed and Anger is also getting nerfed, so at that point Fel Blade might come back.

[Shirofune]

No, actually with Anger Fel Blade becomes way worse than before because overcapping is a real issue. Then it is really fight depended, e.g. on Odyn Fel Blade is still awesome (because of the additional mobility and because the fury gen from DB is not so consistent because you have to move a lot) but after getting Anger you will most likely not use Fel Blade anymore for the majority of the encounters.

7.15 will be different again because DB is getting nerfed and Anger is also getting nerfed, so at that point Fel Blade might come back.

Felblade will be used but not because of those reasons.

In 7.1.5, Felblade is moved to T1, and the fury generation from it is better than the one from Fel Mastery, specially since Momentum will not be used in ST encounters.

[FobManX]

So I just came back from about a ~2 month hiatus. What's the general deal with DH now? Is it still Momentum build or is there something else? I'm not really gonna be raiding or anything, just playing casually, but I actually enjoy Momentum playstyle.

[Raiju]

Momentum is still optimal now, and will be perfectly usable casually in 7.1.5 currently expected a couple weeks into January. It will not be the best option single target compared to nemesis, but unless you're going into NH mythic fairly quickly it won't matter enough. For any consistent multitarget or aoe it is preferred over nemesis in .1.5, as well as in pretty much all dungeon content except ridiculous tyrannicals like CoS.

[jayinjersey]

in 7.1.5 currently expected a couple weeks into January

Actually I think we can expect it more in mid to late Feb than January.

Jan 17th is Nighthold and they have said both Nighthold and 1.5 are independant of each other AND that they think it would be foolish to release major changes to classes in the middle of a raid tier.

[Raiju]

Actually I think we can expect it more in mid to late Feb than January.

Jan 17th is Nighthold and they have said both Nighthold and 1.5 are independant of each other AND that they think it would be foolish to release major changes to classes in the middle of a raid tier.

Late feb is middle of a raid tier, since nighthold is the actual tier. Noone cares if it releases before nighthold which is the ideal.

[Glorious Leader]

What exactly was the problem with the passive options being strong?

[Raiju]

By blizzards own words challenging play should be rewarding. Fire & forget cooldowns are not generally considered challenging.

[Deleted]

What exactly was the problem with the passive options being strong?

I know you're a troll, but I'll bite in case you are genuinely curious:

1. Something that requires more/any kind of effort and also has the potential (or more of it) to be executed poorly, should generally perform better than something that is entirely passive/much easier to use/"fire and forget" - because why would anyone pick it if it wasn't a bit better and only had risks/downsides associated with it? Blizzard has expressed this exact stance in the past.

Of course the argument then is "how much worse" these talents should be and that is very subjective. I think that something performing about 5% worse is still a good tradeoff for players that may not want to deal with a more complicated mechanic and/or would perform 5% less (or even worse) good with the optimal choice anyway.

2. This is subjective, but Havoc Demon Hunters from the get-go were designed around movement being part of their "doing damage" and, thus, a talent that encourages/rewards playing that playstyle more or better, makes sense to me. Looking at a class design that was always built around Momentum being "the way to go" and that has been this way since Alpha/early Beta, I don't understand why a talent that does the exact opposite should be equal/better.

As of now, a player that cannot play Momentum properly is basically as well off as a player using Nemesis anyway.

[Glorious Leader]

I know you're a troll, but I'll bite in case you are genuinely curious:

1. Something that requires more/any kind of effort and also has the potential (or more of it) to be executed poorly, should generally perform better than something that is entirely passive/much easier to use/"fire and forget" - because why would anyone pick it if it wasn't a bit better and only had risks/downsides associated with it? Blizzard has expressed this exact stance in the past.

Of course the argument then is "how much worse" these talents should be and that is very subjective. I think that something performing about 5% worse is still a good tradeoff for players that may not want to deal with a more complicated mechanic and/or would perform 5% less (or even worse) good with the optimal choice anyway.

2. This is subjective, but Havoc Demon Hunters from the get-go were designed around movement being part of their "doing damage" and, thus, a talent that encourages/rewards playing that playstyle more or better, makes sense to me. Looking at a class design that was always built around Momentum being "the way to go" and that has been this way since Alpha/early Beta, I don't understand why a talent that does the exact opposite should be equal/better.

As of now, a player that cannot play Momentum properly is basically as well off as a player using Nemesis anyway.

1. Is just awful reasoning on their part. I like that my dh is strong without having to play guitar hero. Theirs nothing that says non passives should be stronger. You can have stronger passives and still pick the non passives if you liked making it more complicated to play. You could also go play feral druid. The notion that we much make active talents more rewarding to reward skilled play and increase the skill cap in the game is one of the bigger problems in the game. Especially since theybe done a pretty good job of shrinking the skill gap this expansion. After doing all that ability bloat reduction why should they turn around and so no you shoulld want more.

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By blizzards own words challenging play should be rewarding. Fire & forget cooldowns are not generally considered challenging.

And yet theyve reduced the skill gap enourmesly this expansiom and done away with much of the button bloat.

[Deleted]

1. Is just awful reasoning on their part. I like that my dh is strong without having to play guitar hero. Theirs nothing that says non passives should be stronger. You can have stronger passives and still pick the non passives if you liked making it more complicated to play. You could also go play feral druid. The notion that we much make active talents more rewarding to reward skilled play and increase the skill cap in the game is one of the bigger problems in the game. Especially since theybe done a pretty good job of shrinking the skill gap this expansion. After doing all that ability bloat reduction why should they turn around and so no you shoulld want more.

- - - Updated - - -



And yet theyve reduced the skill gap enourmesly this expansiom and done away with much of the button bloat.

Okay, I was wrong. You were just trolling, my bad.

[jayinjersey]

Late feb is middle of a raid tier, since nighthold is the actual tier. Noone cares if it releases before nighthold which is the ideal.

Late Feb is end of that Raid tier (i've always gathered they only consider "the race" to be the active part of the tier)

There is little to no chance it comes out before Nighthold...it still isn't solid on the PTR yet.

[KingBat]

Better chance they push night hold back then releasing class changes like 1.5 a few weeks into NH imo

[Ehnoah]

So I got Szephus now, actually some mate told me it isn't that bad, since we want to get 4 GCDs into 1 Momentum, how much haste we need for that? Or is it not true?

Also is it true, to get some Mastery Gear for Burst Fights?