Munkkys Vengeance Demon Hunter Guide UPDATED 7.3

[Munkky]

If you were using Flame Crash on a single target (not sure if we'd still be doing this in 7.1.5 with the Fel Eruption/Fracture changes), wouldn't you use Abyssal Strike with that?

Not on live, AS doesn't do anything for us dps wise on live that isn't beaten by the other 2. In 715, it is better to use DS for damage. On live, for pure dps you wouldn't use DS at all.

[Deleted]

There are lots of concerning things regarding DPS in 7.1.5, but yes it's pretty awkward to play. But the most awkward is Fracture at 20 Pain.

Right now our opener for pure dps is probably going to be something like: (Fiery Brand - Leap) - Immo Aura - Soul Carver - Fel Eruption - Arcane Torrent+Shear until 30 Pain if needed - Fel Devastation - Shear until 40 Pain if needed (- 2x DS+ Demonic Infusion) - Fracture Fracture Fracture Fracture Fracture Fracture Fracture Fracture Fracture Fracture Fracture zZzZz , with the 2nd leap thrown somewhere in the fiery brand window, and periodic Immo Auras to fuel dspikes if boss pain < 20/sec, otherwise just fracture+dspikes spam.

"Exciting". Oh and since our pain generated is dependant on avoidance rng and dspikes boosts it to pure coin flip territory (~50%), you'll be at the mercy of it in order to parse high. enjoy!

[Teddybird]

Does anyone else feel strange playing with Razor Spikes? It's nice that our AM gets offensive use, but it's kind of different to get used to.

Been trying to stay away from it as i don't want a slow attached to my stuff, but keep in mind with the ring (which i have) and in 7.1.5 you'll pretty much have super up-time on DS without trying anything special. Another reason why razor spike will properly end up good is it the uptime on Ds will happen regardless of the talent, so its just free dmg for nothing extra.

Not quite the thread for this but one thing to keep in mind here is that nemesis will only end up like this on one target. The benefit of momentum isn't just that you can control it's uptime, it's that it's a self buff so it affects everything you hit.

Ah yeah deffo, i just normally on care about my OS dps on raid bosses and in most cases if there adds we have assigned people to them so im normally free to cleave while staying on boss

[Delimit]

There are lots of concerning things regarding DPS in 7.1.5, but yes it's pretty awkward to play. But the most awkward is Fracture at 20 Pain.

Right now our opener for pure dps is probably going to be something like: (Fiery Brand - Leap) - Immo Aura - Soul Carver - Fel Eruption - Arcane Torrent+Shear until 30 Pain if needed - Fel Devastation - Shear until 40 Pain if needed (- 2x DS+ Demonic Infusion) - Fracture Fracture Fracture Fracture Fracture Fracture Fracture Fracture Fracture Fracture Fracture zZzZz , with the 2nd leap thrown somewhere in the fiery brand window, and periodic Immo Auras to fuel dspikes if boss pain < 20/sec, otherwise just fracture+dspikes spam.

"Exciting". Oh and since our pain generated is dependant on avoidance rng and dspikes boosts it to pure coin flip territory (~50%), you'll be at the mercy of it in order to parse high. enjoy!

How does it make it awkward? Fracture spam is already our "pure DPS" rotation. Making it 20 pain just reduces the amount of Shears needed.

[Deleted]

Well I suppose that my point is that generating 40pain/gcd isn't that common (pretty much never happens unless you're getting completely hammered, so you're not using Fracture anyway), whereas 20/gcd is not unrealistic.

Right now it's probably something like 40%~ fracture 60% pain generators (looking at a random Ursoc parse I have, 55 pain spenders, 79 pain generators, and that's with 60P soul cleaves in there). I suppose the ratio is going to become a lot more skewed towards Fracture, to the point where it's going to be a 1-button rotation for long periods of time. Like 10 seconds+ long of spamming only one button. Even longer when Demonic Infusion is up.

IDK, maybe awkward isn't the right term. Right now you at least have a balance to maintain between still generating pain and not overcapping from boss damage, but if you're relegated to using a pain generator once every blue moon it'll quickly get tiring and boring IMO.

[Veiled Shadow]

Well I suppose that my point is that generating 40pain/gcd isn't that common (pretty much never happens unless you're getting completely hammered, so you're not using Fracture anyway), whereas 20/gcd is not unrealistic.

Right now it's probably something like 40%~ fracture 60% pain generators (looking at a random Ursoc parse I have, 55 pain spenders, 79 pain generators, and that's with 60P soul cleaves in there). I suppose the ratio is going to become a lot more skewed towards Fracture, to the point where it's going to be a 1-button rotation for long periods of time. Like 10 seconds+ long of spamming only one button. Even longer when Demonic Infusion is up.

IDK, maybe awkward isn't the right term. Right now you at least have a balance to maintain between still generating pain and not overcapping from boss damage, but if you're relegated to using a pain generator once every blue moon it'll quickly get tiring and boring IMO.

In all honesty, I'd say Shear feels underwhelming to cast, while Fracture feels "good" so replacing Shear GCDs with Fracture doesn't bother me too much (of course this is personal opinion).

I don't entirely agree that Immolation Aura usage will be restricted to scenarios where you don't generate 20 pain/GCD, as the overall damage value of Immolation Aura is quite good - e.g. in the log you are referencing (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=11) it hits for close to twice as much as Fracture per cast (even accounting for crit, AF, and the occasional presence of two targets it's very close to Fracture in damage alone) so it's not clear to me why casting Immolation Aura on CD would ever not be the optimal play. It should be possible to avoid resource capping in most imaginable cases.

[Delimit]

IMO, we already spend too much time spamming Shear as it is. This was a common complaint all through alpha/beta and one of the reasons people tended to prefer Felblade being added to the rotation, just to have something to press other than the continual spamming of Shear. The average player probably spends 2x the amount of casts on Shear than they do on Soul Cleave/Fracture.

[Deleted]

Well that's a major problem with pain generated on damage taken. It's difficult to get the right balance between solo play and situations with high damage intake. Warriors complain about it too, and have it worse than us, but that's still a pretty bad mechanic for us as well :P

IMO Fracture should be baseline and our DPS should be adjusted in consequence (which means buffs anyway even if it was baseline, but I disgress, lol). I don't like having terrible damage and a band-aid in the form of one-button wonder Fracture.

@Veiled Shadow: You're comparing Immo with +30% damage (Ago Flames) and around 15% more crit%, to Fracture missing the +30% from Razor Spikes. Also Immo is cleaving on the add (20% of its damage). Not fair at all IMO. But yeah, I guess we'll use immo. Not much else though.

[redfella]

At 893 ilvl I got a whopping. 0.21% phys reduction going from 35 to 36. I'll still take it, but kinda underwhelming vs the 1% dmg increase dps gets.

Wish it was flat DR and not armor.

[Deleted]

They get 0.5% dmg per point, not 1 (and they also get 0.75% stam from the passive), which you also get because the passive keeps scaling past 34 regardless of what the tooltip says

[redfella]

edit: oh, nvm then

[Temp name]

But yeah, I'd also kinda want it to be flat DR and not armor.. We're not that good at magic after all

[Khiyone]

So they increased the 4% damage increase to a 9% increase. Yay! That might be my favourite change so far.

[Temp name]

I really like the increased damage. My epeen needs more stroking in m+

[Deleted]

Great change! Hope we get closer to guardians and palas with this.

[Oiysters]

Love the change. Tired of getting crushed on the meters by my pally co tank, plus more damage is more self heal. All good in my book.

I just hope the mitigation buffs are enough to make us competitive. Best moment of the xpac so far is when I got told I seemed less spiky and scary to heal...which meant I was playing better. Everyone still prefers healing the pally though, and would be happy if I went back to my long time druid main.

[Tech614]

Love the change. Tired of getting crushed on the meters by my pally co tank, plus more damage is more self heal. All good in my book.

I just hope the mitigation buffs are enough to make us competitive. Best moment of the xpac so far is when I got told I seemed less spiky and scary to heal...which meant I was playing better. Everyone still prefers healing the pally though, and would be happy if I went back to my long time druid main.

DH mitigation is already going to scale better then any other tank besides possibly Blood and Brew, so nighthold alone is going to be a massive buff let alone when you tally up the other changes.

Don't be surprised if those "bottom 3" tanks are the top 3 by the end of the expansion, which is how it usually turns out in the first place.

[redfella]

Not to be a dick but Blood doesn't really scale well tbh.

[Tech614]

Not to be a dick but Blood doesn't really scale well tbh.

Not to be a dick, but you really don't understand Blood with a statement like this.

Blood has been a top tier tank at the end of every expansion since cata, and that's not likely to change now either.

[Veiled Shadow]

Not to be a dick, but you really don't understand Blood with a statement like this.

Blood has been a top tier tank at the end of every expansion since cata, and that's not likely to change now either.

Blood has been good historically twice: in 4.3, and in WoD. The spec as a whole basically died out in early Cata to Firelands, then was hilariously overbuffed in 4.3. Then along came MoP, and you had the entire fiasco of DKs being the only tank that didn't scale mitigatively with Vengeance at all, while simultaneously having poor effective health; as such, they were the worst tank for the entirety of the expansion, and 5.4 was certainly no exception to this.

The above mechanical issues were addressed in WoD with the rework (making Rune Tap useful AM, giving the spec more EH than the other tanks on account of its damage intake, etc.) so for the first time since Cataclysm Blood was actually decent relative to other tanks. However due to issues with Resolve capping, there were scaling issues, which fortunately didn't surface due to the damage intake in HFC not being increased as much relative to gear as it had in the Highmaul to BRF transition.

And of course the spec was made a grotesque abomination in Legion and simply has a much smaller toolkit now, so it's unlikely to be decent at all this expansion barring sweeping changes.