Belgian town: christmas Nativity scene offensive.

[Acidbaron]

I like it when people pretend to be able to read and claim fake outrage.

The discussion is about an official location of the government, a town hall being allowed to display something religious. It actually isn't that much of a debate since they are actually forced to be so, you generally won't find religious items there.

You'll have plenty of places displaying christmas eve, the stable, we also have chapels all over the place, so this sudden notion some want to bring here that Christianity is suddenly something considered offensive is again simply being stupid and seeking out things to be outraged about, but that's this forum for you filled to the brink of sensitive folks. Who clearly can't read, who needs letters when you have retarded feels!

[Jessicka]

Would anyone go as far a saying all of these are a huge part of christian symbolism? I consider the cross and variations of crosses a huge part of christian symoblism but a symbol typically connected to jews more so than christians and one from ancient times not really. But i´m sure Kalis is glad you´ve helped him out.

The Star of Bethlehem, as beautifully depicted in Kalis's second image above the Arch-Angel Gabriel, and in the third image, is probably one of the most iconic images in Christianity after the Cross or Crucifix. I've never disputed that Christianity does indeed use stars.

What it tends not to use is star depicted as this:





And of course the latter inverted. For some reason, certain Christian sects see them as evil due to historic associations with the Occult.

His Christmas decoration stars, particularly the one on top of the tree, predate Christianity.

[Kalis]

That´s one and the same symbol... going by that the colour brown is a huge part of christianity.

I said...

"Stars of all sorts are a huge part of Christian symbolism."

Not...

"Stars of all sorts are a huge part of Christian symbolism in different subject matters."

[Jessicka]

Last I heard it was mostly atheists who complained, not immigrants.

Yeah, I always thought Satanists had the right answer in demanding statues of Baphomet alongside such religious iconography.

[Mayhem]

I said...

"Stars of all sorts are a huge part of Christian symbolism."

Not...

"Stars of all sorts are a huge part of Christian symbolism in different subject matters."

My bad for misunderstanding. Apologies.

[Deleted]

"under false pretenses" "Their real motivation" These sound very much like your reinforced opinion.

It is my opinion and it is reinforced because, as opposed to you, I have a solid knowledge of the workings of Belgian politics.

[Zoranon]

City council has rescinded the ban. There will be a nativity scene. The decision to ban it was pushed by our extreme left Green party who is pandering to immigrants to secure their ever increasing vote share.

I'm an atheist and believe in a secular society. However, Christmas and everything linked to it is part of our cultural traditions and values. Yes it's a religious festivity but has moved way beyond that.



Christmas is not one of those, period. It's a holiday about family, togetherness, being with loved ones and giving.

Good to hear that,

Still another unneeded reinforcement that greens are complete scum. Some of them are as awful as communists and nazis, but much better at hiding the fact.

Immigrants need to be told in a very simple words that nativity scenes and Christmas trees are part of the celebrations in Europe and US. If they have a problem with that, they need to choose and place to emigrate to.

[Deleted]

http://m.telegraaf.nl/buitenland/art...01f137e2720715

The Nativity scene with baby jesus, the 3 kings etc. Is being banned by a Belgian town because its 'offensive for some people'. Some are saying this iconic Christmas image is part of western culture and should not be abolished because of feels.

Thoughts?

1. Your source is from the Netherlands, wich is not Belgium, couldn't find any relevant Belgian sources on this (Except Nieuwsblad, which is a newspaper focusing on smalltown stories)

2. The news articles linked directly under the article have titles as followes: "I kissed my father in law", "police officer grabbed in the crotch" and "Kardashians share racy christmascard" this doesn't say much about the article, but it says everything you need to know about the source.

3. Belgium is a mostly atheist country, nobody cares, only Islamophobes that want to feed their irrational fear of brown people.

4. It happened in Holsbeek, a town nobody ever heared about and a town not know for having any sort of relevant immigrant population
5. Are you really this desperate to find flamebait?

[Docturphil]

They are not, they have an automatic charitable status, so get tax breaks (technically could be regarded as a subsidy since it still leaves taxpayers out of pocket) and also receive money from government toward acts of charity.

But... yes... they are privately funded (referring to churches in the USA). They're funded by the money tossed in the offering plates by the people who attend. And they get some tax breaks because they're charitable organizations.

Now, you're probably about to point out those millionaire televangelists. Yeah, they're ass holes, but most churches aren't like that. Most churches are legitimately charitable.

- - - Updated - - -

Do churches own the land they are built on? Do they pay taxes for that land?

Yes, they own the land and no I don't believe they do pay property tax (not 100% sure on that). They're charitable organizations tho.

And at any rate, if you want to suggest that a charitable organisation should have to pay property tax, then I'm fine with that suggestion as long as you're not suggesting that only be applied to churches.

[Deleted]

Yes, they own the land and no I don't believe they do pay property tax (not 100% sure on that). They're charitable organizations tho.

And at any rate, if you want to suggest that a charitable organisation should have to pay property tax, then I'm fine with that suggestion as long as you're not suggesting that only be applied to churches.

The churces in Belgium are so empty that funding them is pretty much a waste, we'd better spend those funds on mosques (who draw a bigger crowd), that way we'd be able to integrate muslim immigrants much better and we'd be able to undermine and eliminate foreign and radicalist influence.

This is a very contraversial tought, but from a pure pragmatic standpoint it makes a lot of sence.

[Deleted]

1. Your source is from the Netherlands, wich is not Belgium, couldn't find any relevant Belgian sources on this (Except Nieuwsblad, which is a newspaper focusing on smalltown stories)

2. The news articles linked directly under the article have titles as followes: "I kissed my father in law", "police officer grabbed in the crotch" and "Kardashians share racy christmascard" this doesn't say much about the article, but it says everything you need to know about the source.

3. Belgium is a mostly atheist country, nobody cares, only Islamophobes that want to feed their irrational fear of brown people.

4. It happened in Holsbeek, a town nobody ever heared about and a town not know for having any sort of relevant immigrant population
5. Are you really this desperate to find flamebait?

Are you kidding me?

Relevant Belgian sources on this topic:

http://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20161218_02632910
http://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20161219_02634491
http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/re...bant/1.2848460
http://www.gva.be/cnt/dmf20161218_02...al-in-holsbeek
http://www.demorgen.be/nieuws/kersts...huis-b770fb57/
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/957/Binnenl...Holsbeek.dhtml
http://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/ge...ch-791749.html

Taking De Morgen, HLN and De Standaard, you have all 3 traditional ideologically anchored newspapers. De Redactie is our national news agency.

Don't act as if this is a fake news story created by foreign tabloids with a right-wing agenda.

[Docturphil]

The churces in Belgium are so empty that funding them is pretty much a waste, we'd better spend those funds on mosques (who draw a bigger crowd), that way we'd be able to integrate muslim immigrants much better and we'd be able to undermine and eliminate foreign and radicalist influence.

This is a very contraversial tought, but from a pure pragmatic standpoint it makes a lot of sence.

To be honest, I have no idea what the state of churches is in Belgium, but if they are not being funded by citizens then I would assume they'll die out naturally. If they're being held up mostly by government funding, then at that point it's pretty clear they aren't worth it to the Belgium people.

Maybe keep a few up for historical purposes, but that's it.

[Deleted]

The churces in Belgium are so empty that funding them is pretty much a waste, we'd better spend those funds on mosques (who draw a bigger crowd), that way we'd be able to integrate muslim immigrants much better and we'd be able to undermine and eliminate foreign and radicalist influence.

This is a very contraversial tought, but from a pure pragmatic standpoint it makes a lot of sence.

Wrong. A pragmatic standpoint would mean repurposing our religious patrimonium, for example turning them into hotels, restaurants, swimming pools, event venues, libraries. Which is what the Belgian government is actually promoting.

For example: 2 Michelin Star restaurant: http://images.adsttc.com/media/image...jpg?1396970790

The Dutch are years ahead of us in that regard. That's a pragmatic standpoint, not redirecting funding to build mosques as a means of integrating muslims. How ridiculous is that thought.

And for the record: most radicalist influence in the suburbs of Brussels came from extremist imams. Religious leaders. In mosques.

You live in a dream world, wake up.

[Deleted]

Atheists complained because religious symbols have no place in government buildings.
It had nothing to do with immigrants.

Wrong as well. There are no recorded complaints by atheists. This is an initiative from the Green party official to promote a secular society in order to stay as neutral as possible. She went on record to say that it's not only related to muslims, but also an initiative for gay people and victims of pedophile pastors in my own hometown of Bruges.
She literally admits that it has at least something to do with muslims.

Quote:
“Wij hebben dat gedaan, omdat er scheiding moet zijn tussen kerk en staat. (...) Om zo neutraal mogelijk te blijven, hebben wij dat kerststalletje weggenomen. Dat heeft niet alleen iets met moslims te maken. Ook homo”s of slachtoffers van pedofiele Brugse priesters zullen dezer dagen niet staan te springen voor een symbool van de kerk.”

I won't stand for you or anyone else to warp the actual facts of this event.

[Zoranon]

Wrong as well. There are no recorded complaints by atheists. This is an initiative from the Green party official to promote a secular society in order to stay as neutral as possible. She went on record to say that it's not only related to muslims, but also an initiative for gay people and victims of pedophile pastors in my own hometown of Bruges.
She literally admits that it has at least something to do with muslims.

Quote:
“Wij hebben dat gedaan, omdat er scheiding moet zijn tussen kerk en staat. (...) Om zo neutraal mogelijk te blijven, hebben wij dat kerststalletje weggenomen. Dat heeft niet alleen iets met moslims te maken. Ook homo”s of slachtoffers van pedofiele Brugse priesters zullen dezer dagen niet staan te springen voor een symbool van de kerk.”

I won't stand for you or anyone else to warp the actual facts of this event.

So Kangado was lying again? Well that is, unsurprising...

[Zython]

Good to hear that,

Still another unneeded reinforcement that greens are complete scum. Some of them are as awful as communists and nazis, but much better at hiding the fact.

Immigrants need to be told in a very simple words that nativity scenes and Christmas trees are part of the celebrations in Europe and US. If they have a problem with that, they need to choose and place to emigrate to.

U.S. government isn't allowed to endorse any religion.

[Karamaru]

Wait they said they were going to put it back or I am reading this wrong?, and if they are putting it back what seems to be the outrage here?

[Kalis]

do you have anything to back this up? or are you going to rabbit on about rangers and celtic?

I have linked the stats previously, I thought it was to you, but it may have been to one of the other Scottish nationalists.

They excluded football related incidents in those figures, at least for the Scottish ones and presumably the English ones, as they tend to come under specific legislation.

[Jonnusthegreat]

Why not? They have been part of our Western cultural tradition going back centuries.

My culture pretends to believe in separation of church and state. In that case, it is never ok for a government body to portray religious beliefs.

[Kronik85]

Town halls should always be secular, the nativity has no place in a modern town hall.