Trial of Valor nerf this week

[FuxieDK]

Trial of Valor was meant to keep us entertained - bridge the gap - between Emerald Nightmare and Nighthold.

It might be intended to keep us entertained, but they failed..

ToV is not a good raid... You literally spend more time on trash than on the bosses.. And then you have to kill trash again, because all of it respawn 2 seconds after being killed..

Odyn: Almost a Patchwork fight.. Nuke for a minute, move a bit.. Rinse and repeat.
Guam: If tanks have enough brains to position boss, so breath hit the same place each time, you literally only need to sidestep 5 yards when boss runs back and forth, otherwise Patchwork fight.
Helya: Too many adds-phases with too much trash, speed over too many locations, means more than 50% of the time is spent on adds, not boss..

[hulkgor]

Odyn's nerf are INSANE, way overboard.

Guarm seems ok, the 10% hp nerf effectively removes the tight dps requirement but still requires a tight execution.

Helya on the other hand is weird... i was expecting her to get the hardest hits, but it seems they're just easing p1 a bit, and removing the mandatory need for 2 spriest for the mass dispels. Guess i'll see next week!

That being said, apart from Cenarius Mythic, ToV encounters on Mythic are my favorite (Odyn was a bit too long on mythic, to be honest), but Guarm seemed well tuned... so i'm happy to have experienced them, hell, even pre-nerf Helya even if we were nowhere near a possible kill. So i think it was a successful between-tiers raid, and i can't wait for Nighthld!

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Guam: If tanks have enough brains to position boss, so breath hit the same place each time, you literally only need to sidestep 5 yards when boss runs back and forth, otherwise Patchwork fight.

How wrong can you be, 'uh? . Also? More time on trash? WTF? Odyn has literally NO trash, and both Guarm's and Helya's trash is cleared super fast in an AoE-fest... hell, the most trash we got this expansion was between Nythendra and the upper level of EN and the one towards Ursoc.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

It might be intended to keep us entertained, but they failed..

ToV is not a good raid... You literally spend more time on trash than on the bosses.. And then you have to kill trash again, because all of it respawn 2 seconds after being killed..

Odyn: Almost a Patchwork fight.. Nuke for a minute, move a bit.. Rinse and repeat.
Guam: If tanks have enough brains to position boss, so breath hit the same place each time, you literally only need to sidestep 5 yards when boss runs back and forth, otherwise Patchwork fight.
Helya: Too many adds-phases with too much trash, speed over too many locations, means more than 50% of the time is spent on adds, not boss..

What trash? There's a bit before Guarm and Helya, but it dies so fast and we haven't noticed any respawns.

Sorry you aren't enjoying it. We are. Happy Holidays!

[Finbezz]

We were struggling with recruitment issues. We were just about to push over the brink of a pretty solid 20 man, then this garbage come out. So boring we could not even bother to work on Helya Normal. Most boring raid i have done in a long, long time. No one even bothered to show up. lol

"work on helya normal" lol, mfw you think your opinion on this matters when you have to progress on shit most people pug. I'm guessing maybe, just, maybe your group isn't the most dedicated bunch.

[FuxieDK]

What trash? There's a bit before Guarm and Helya, but it dies so fast and we haven't noticed any respawns.

Fast? Trash between Odyn and Guam usually takes 15-20 minutes... And if you don't notice the respawn, then you are one of the AFK'ers that cause the slow killing of trash..

[archkiller]

Will pugs finally be able to kill heroic helya with the nerf?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

It's 8.2% (3800) of all guilds who killed NORMAL Nythendra (~46000). How is that number useful for anything?

Fast? Trash between Odyn and Guam usually takes 15-20 minutes... And if you don't notice the respawn, then you are one of the AFK'ers that cause the slow killing of trash..

Just no, sorry. lol. That trash takes 5 minutes. What are you doing, pulling them one at a time?

[Asrialol]

It might be intended to keep us entertained, but they failed..

ToV is not a good raid... You literally spend more time on trash than on the bosses.. And then you have to kill trash again, because all of it respawn 2 seconds after being killed..

Odyn: Almost a Patchwork fight.. Nuke for a minute, move a bit.. Rinse and repeat.
Guam: If tanks have enough brains to position boss, so breath hit the same place each time, you literally only need to sidestep 5 yards when boss runs back and forth, otherwise Patchwork fight.
Helya: Too many adds-phases with too much trash, speed over too many locations, means more than 50% of the time is spent on adds, not boss..

"Literally". I don't think it means what you think it means.

[Deleted]

Honestly, I agree ToV was overtuned. That being said, since it's a side raid with no major purpose I didn't mind it too much, we cleared heroic on week one with moderate amounts of struggles, had about 15 wipes on Helya which felt refreshing for a HC boss. We're currently 2/3 mythic and this is where it starts annoying me, our raid week is over so the next time we set foot in there we'll likely be 3/3 without earning it....

[KaPe]

rofl 50% i'll go pug it on christmas day while drunk, mythic will be about as hard as current normal mode just start a grp 890+ only, free mythic helya loot here, be done in time to open the next bottle.

I don't think the words "free loot" mean what you think they do - and neither does "normal mode" or "890+ pug".

I mean, I know this is one of those "with such nerfs, this instance is now beneath elite raider like myself" posts, but still. Think you meant to type "I'll pay for a carry".

[redfella]

Well you use DPS to dispel on M Helya, why couldn't you do that in 10man? Or use a offhealer? It's not that big a deal.

[laplacedemon]

You literally spend more time on trash than on the bosses.. And then you have to kill trash again, because all of it respawn 2 seconds after being killed..

If you dispel the buff they get, they won't 'respawn'.

[Soikona]

I'm happy just to see health pools reduced. Fight lengths are too long. The fights are simple, but the difficulty is losing concentration due to getting bored.

[fabonaut]

I have an honest question: For what kind of players is the heroic difficulty supposed to be a challenge?

This might sound weird, so let me put it another way: As someone who casually raids not more than six hours a week with a group of 10-15 buddies who has never set foot in mythic EN and who has cleared the heroic difficulty in each raid within three weeks after its release - what difficulty is for us?

We don't find ToV heroic to be difficult right now, before the nerfs. We can't raid mythic with our group because we are less than 20 players and our group is made up by two different guilds on two different servers. Again, I don't want to come across as pretentious or arrogant, I don't want to ruin the fun for anyone, honestly. I just don't have a challenge in Legion right now. I really enjoyed wiping 40+ times on Helya heroic. It was the first real fun we had raiding in Legion so far.

Right now, there are three easy difficulties and a difficult one that I can't access because I don't want to commit to more than two evenings of raiding. This feels so weird.

[Tehterokkar]

Fast? Trash between Odyn and Guam usually takes 15-20 minutes... And if you don't notice the respawn, then you are one of the AFK'ers that cause the slow killing of trash..

So you blame it on people being afk and not doing trash mechanics properly that your trash takes ages? You dispel the buff on trash(mass dispel works wonders) and run to the end immediately to prevent extra waves from spawning(hint: it's a semi-gauntlet).

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Summer]

Right now, there are three easy difficulties and a difficult one that I can't access because I don't want to commit to more than two evenings of raiding. This feels so weird.

There's plenty of six hour mythic raiding guilds. The only thing stopping you is that you don't have 20 people and that's unfortunate but not easy to fix because flex mode in mythic would be pretty terrible.

Not to worry though, NH will be out in a few weeks and I'm pretty sure Gul'dan will pose a decent challenge on heroic as well :P

[dmfg]

I have an honest question: For what kind of players is the heroic difficulty supposed to be a challenge?

This might sound weird, so let me put it another way: As someone who casually raids not more than six hours a week with a group of 10-15 buddies who has never set foot in mythic EN and who has cleared the heroic difficulty in each raid within three weeks after its release - what difficulty is for us?

We don't find ToV heroic to be difficult right now, before the nerfs. We can't raid mythic with our group because we are less than 20 players and our group is made up by two different guilds on two different servers. Again, I don't want to come across as pretentious or arrogant, I don't want to ruin the fun for anyone, honestly. I just don't have a challenge in Legion right now. I really enjoyed wiping 40+ times on Helya heroic. It was the first real fun we had raiding in Legion so far.

Right now, there are three easy difficulties and a difficult one that I can't access because I don't want to commit to more than two evenings of raiding. This feels so weird.

It does sound like you guys would benefit a lot from merging and recruiting up to try mythic. Yes it's expensive but if it's that or not have fun, you have to make a choice. 6 hours is enough to progress TOV mythic, you just have to accept that you will lose some farm.

[exor37]

Fast? Trash between Odyn and Guam usually takes 15-20 minutes... And if you don't notice the respawn, then you are one of the AFK'ers that cause the slow killing of trash..

if u are doing TOV with ppl who afk. its your goddamn fault!!!!

ROFL RESPAWN? OMG have u noticed they do have a buff that if u dont dispell they will respawn? ( they dont die neither).

keep collecting pets dont pay attention to buffs/debuffs

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It might be intended to keep us entertained, but they failed..

ToV is not a good raid... You literally spend more time on trash than on the bosses.. And then you have to kill trash again, because all of it respawn 2 seconds after being killed..

Odyn: Almost a Patchwork fight.. Nuke for a minute, move a bit.. Rinse and repeat.
Guam: If tanks have enough brains to position boss, so breath hit the same place each time, you literally only need to sidestep 5 yards when boss runs back and forth, otherwise Patchwork fight.
Helya: Too many adds-phases with too much trash, speed over too many locations, means more than 50% of the time is spent on adds, not boss..

durrrrrr.. i should only dps BOSS? NO MOVEMENT? PATCHWERK DULL FIGHT !
durrrrr.... too many adds! too many locations to go ?!?!?too complicated ! i want to dps the boss
durrrhurrr... odyn and guarm are both patchwerk fights ( this one just blew my bind bruh)

[fabonaut]

It does sound like you guys would benefit a lot from merging and recruiting up to try mythic. Yes it's expensive but if it's that or not have fun, you have to make a choice. 6 hours is enough to progress TOV mythic, you just have to accept that you will lose some farm.

It seems like you're right, we are forced to make that choice. What I'm asking is... why? What's the point of having three easy and one hardcore difficulty. Where is the medium difficulty? Isn't that exactly what heroic is supposed to be? Why is it so easy to out-gear current heroic raid content with mythic+ dungeons? I don't know, maybe it's really just me, but everything feels unbalanced in Legion. I WANT to wipe a good amount in heroic difficulty, I WANT it to be more difficult, because difficult content is fun, no?

[Dracodraco]

It seems like you're right, we are forced to make that choice. What I'm asking is... why? What's the point of having three easy and one hardcore difficulty. Where is the medium difficulty? Isn't that exactly what heroic is supposed to be? Why is it so easy to out-gear current heroic raid content with mythic+ dungeons? I don't know, maybe it's really just me, but everything feels unbalanced in Legion. I WANT to wipe a good amount in heroic difficulty, I WANT it to be more difficult, because difficult content is fun, no?

Heroic *Is* the medium difficulty level. The fact that you spent multiple nights (judging by 40+ wipes) on a heroic boss proves that. Thing is, every difficulty seems easy to someone that's raiding the hardest. There's not much difference between LFR, normal or heroic to me as someone who does the bosses on mythic. As evidenced by tons of guilds having issues with heroic, clearly it isn't "easy" for the general level of player.