When we had to be nice.....

[Hospicedoc]

Any World of Warcraft players been around more than 10 years and remember the days when you pretty much had to be nice in game? This was before the days of Blizzard services like server transfers, cross-realm play, LFR, and faction and name changes, etc. You had to stay on the server where you rolled your character. This reinforced the need for cordial gameplay because if you were rude, a ninja, or other negative behavior, then word would get out and people would not run with you. You know when you log into the game and sometimes it says "if you are polite in groups, people will invite you back"? .... or something like that? It seems that doesn't apply anymore.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think that server transfers, cross-realm play, LFR, and faction/name changes are a bad thing and, in fact, I've availed myself of them several times over the years as I was trying to find a raiding guild on another server that met my needs based school or work restrictions. I just wonder it it's politeness in general that has seemed to diminish over time ingame, the issues of all the cited Blizzard services that allow people to get away with being rude because they know they can just pay to change their name or server, or a combination of both.

I say this without pointing fingers at others because I too am guilty, I think. I have found myself less tolerant of others at times knowing that I likely won't run into them again, since it's LFR. Any way, I just thought I'd start a dialogue on this for those who are interested in the topic to hear other's thoughts, and I welcome them. I am curious too, if anyone has any viable solutions to how Blizzard could more effectively promote less nasty behavior than the current practices, or if it's just gone forever, or if people think everything is fine the way it is.

[Trapped]

Any World of Warcraft players been around more than 10 years and remember the days when you pretty much had to be nice in game? This was before the days of Blizzard services like server transfers, cross-realm play, LFR, and faction and name changes, etc. You had to stay on the server where you rolled your character. This reinforced the need for cordial gameplay because if you were rude, a ninja, or other negative behavior, then word would get out and people would not run with you. You know when you log into the game and sometimes it says "if you are polite in groups, people will invite you back"? .... or something like that? It seems that doesn't apply anymore.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think that server transfers, cross-realm play, LFR, and faction/name changes are a bad thing and, in fact, I've availed myself of them several times over the years as I was trying to find a raiding guild on another server that met my needs based school or work restrictions. I just wonder it it's politeness in general that has seemed to diminish over time ingame, the issues of all the cited Blizzard services that allow people to get away with being rude because they know they can just pay to change their name or server, or a combination of both.

I say this without pointing fingers at others because I too am guilty, I think. I have found myself less tolerant of others at times knowing that I likely won't run into them again, since it's LFR. Any way, I just thought I'd start a dialogue on this for those who are interested in the topic to hear other's thoughts, and I welcome them. I am curious too, if anyone has any viable solutions to how Blizzard could more effectively promote less nasty behavior than the current practices, or if it's just gone forever, or if people think everything is fine the way it is.

Yup, been saying this for a while now. Your reputation on your server means pretty much nothing anymore. Server communities are gone because of cross realm stuff. Meeting cool/fun people out in the world to make friends with is a thing of the past (for the most part). WoW is almost a solo RPG at this point. People are just getting in the way.

[Deleted]

Yeah I remember. A certain memory from back in Classic comes to mind, we were running Shadowfang Keep and were making our way up the stairs some way inside the castle, I spotted a treasure chest that everyone else seemed to have missed and went up to loot it. A group member immediately asked me to pass him leader because he had to do something, and then promptly kicked me from the group stating that I stole the chest we should all have rolled for.

Don't know if his behaviour was justified or not, but I was very young back then and didn't really know all the rules for things like that, it was most certainly not my intention to steal from the group. I did learn to ask for similar things from then on, however.

[Teri]

Yes , that's what made vanilla and TBC so great, server and character social identity.

Just found an old wow vanilla (battle chest) guide and it actually has a section on being nice, and rolling on loot as well.

Even a section on battlegrounds: "if players in battleground dont fight back and want a losing match to be over with , don't kill the poor players"

There were no group finders, and there was elite leveling content in outdoor zones as well, later on blizz found it obsolete and made them regular mobs as expansions found much less players in vanilla zones.

[ComputerNerd]

As you said it yourself, it is your choice due to a perception of there not being consequences.
That isn't a fault of the game design, but of you only as it is you making that decision in the end.

It was never a case of "having" to be nice, it was a choice to be that.

[beanman12345]

No ninja looting. Everyone on the server found out in a matter of hours, and that person never got a group again. Re-roll or quit basically were the two options.

[Hospicedoc]

Yeah I remember. A certain memory from back in Classic comes to mind, we were running Shadowfang Keep and were making our way up the stairs some way inside the castle, I spotted a treasure chest that everyone else seemed to have missed and went up to loot it. A group member immediately asked me to pass him leader because he had to do something, and then promptly kicked me from the group stating that I stole the chest we should all have rolled for.

Don't know if his behaviour was justified or not, but I was very young back then and didn't really know all the rules for things like that, it was most certainly not my intention to steal from the group. I did learn to ask for similar things from then on, however.

haha. I made that mistake in Vanilla and spent 2 months building my reputation back to get invites to groups. We were running something and I was brand new to the game. I was a priest so I was looking for cloth items. An items dropped and I rolled on it and won it. It turns out that it was part of the warlock set and not for priests, but I didn't know. Word got out that I'd ninja'd a warlock set item. The loot system wasn't as sophisticated as it is now. I felt so badly right away but the warlock in the group didn't care. He immediately went to trade in a major city and my name was MUD for 2 months. Eventually, I got invited back to groups but it reinforced an important lesson of doing the work to know the game and the rules and also it taught me how to establish relationships ingame. I still have that warlock item in the inventory of that priest, even though I don't play her anymore. Lesson learned, albeit the hard way.

[RoKPaNda]

You never had to be nice. If you were in one of the top guilds on your server you could be the biggest dickbag in the world without worry. Actually as long as you were in a guild at all you could pretty much be the biggest dickhead ever as long as your guild accepted you. Even the people that were "blacklisted" were still able to join groups, they just had a harder time of it.

haha. I made that mistake in Vanilla and spent 2 months building my reputation back to get invites to groups. We were running something and I was brand new to the game. I was a priest so I was looking for cloth items. An items dropped and I rolled on it and won it. It turns out that it was part of the warlock set and not for priests, but I didn't know. Word got out that I'd ninja'd a warlock set item. The loot system wasn't as sophisticated as it is now. I felt so badly right away but the warlock in the group didn't care. He immediately went to trade in a major city and my name was MUD for 2 months. Eventually, I got invited back to groups but it reinforced an important lesson of doing the work to know the game and the rules and also it taught me how to establish relationships ingame. I still have that warlock item in the inventory of that priest, even though I don't play her anymore. Lesson learned, albeit the hard way.

Either that never happened or you were part of the worst server in history. Players rolled on and won sets meant for other classes allllll the time and nobody cared. Particularly ret paladins and the warrior valor set.

[Teri]

I still get many nostalgia feelings reading that old guide, or hearing vanilla zone music, leveling took longer and it clearly had a lasting effect on me :P

I just don't get the same feelings anymore in anything past TBC zones.

[Mad_Murdock]

If you are only nice because someone is watching, then you're not really nice. Does the new systems encourage douche baggery? Sure. But you either have a system where you have a net nanny watching over you at all times or you just to be the Wild West. I want Blizzard to look for ways to prevent bad behavior in passive ways, like removing the ability to mount within 10 yards of a major NPC (like Santa will be douche bag heaven come Christmas)

Outside of that, this is just the era of trolling. It's all the cool to make people rage. Sadly too many people get a great joy out of people getting pissed off. Part of the problem, is just like in Politics, people have bought heavily into the many Stereotypes about other wow players. So any thought that they can ruin the day of the proverbial 12 year old on momma and daddy's credit card is seen as a great act of service.

Hopefully the era will end and trolling will lose it's cool status.

[Hospicedoc]

You never had to be nice. If you were in one of the top guilds on your server you could be the biggest dickbag in the world without worry. Actually as long as you were in a guild at all you could pretty much be the biggest dickhead ever as long as your guild accepted you. Even the people that were "blacklisted" were still able to join groups, they just had a harder time of it.

I forgot about that part. Yes there were the elite guilds that pretty much stood in major cities with their great gear and treated others as lower. I had forgotten, but I still think that for most people there was a need to be nicer in the game that we currently see today. Just my two cents....

[Teri]

You never had to be nice. If you were in one of the top guilds on your server you could be the biggest dickbag in the world without worry. Actually as long as you were in a guild at all you could pretty much be the biggest dickhead ever as long as your guild accepted you. Even the people that were "blacklisted" were still able to join groups, they just had a harder time of it.

Oh yeah I know this, being the top guid on server at the time for a long long time, it did bring out bad behaviour on world bosses especially.

We also had 2 rogues who camped the battleground queue areas of the horde for days on end :P

But I dunno if it were because we were an RP server, people were generally nice, especially in vanilla when blue dungeon content was very relevant. During TBC it was different for me as we did most 5 man heroics as guild groups.

[Deleted]

The point is, the WoW "kindness" is not true. In 99% of time it's not true at all. Even in your post, while i agree that be kind it's not so hard, specially in a videogame where you lose nothing, you show that kindness or being nice was not something coming from the "hearts" of players, but was necessary to avoid being declined from gruop or social activities. I must be kind not because i want to be like that but to avoid the server stigma.
The truth is, in internet there is little no reason to not be rude (don't want to say other things). In WoW is no different. In past WoW, where everything was slow paced, you had the "server stigma", now in a WoW where you can replace a "bad attitude" player in mere minutes, you have, for example, the deserter debuff.

To be honest, i don't know or can think of good ways to enforce good attitude, they can maybe implement more ways to promote it (but in the end, will be a false good attitude anyway, just to grab the rewards).

[shonist]

So you enter in a new job.

-Hi, im michael
-Hi michael, do you play wow?
-Yes, wanna run some dungeons man??
-Oh yeah, see you in stormwind.

Then they realized they have their maxed chars on differents realms.

-Aww man, what a pitty.
-ey, mark my words, someone in 2016 will be saying this is awesome, Lets celebrate we cant play together.


edit: i wanna point out this happened to me this year. Thankfully, my new work mates can play with me dont having to level up another char in my realm. The only thing that we cant share is the guild, that is something not too important for us.
Ty god CZR

- - - Updated - - -

No ninja looting. Everyone on the server found out in a matter of hours, and that person never got a group again. Re-roll or quit basically were the two options.

Ninja looting is impossible right now thankfully.

[Morbownz]

"When we HAD to be nice" doesn't exactly sound like you're describing a utopia. There were just consequences for doing things in WoW that affected other players negatively, like breaking agreements in groups, or just making a name for yourself on a server for all the wrong reasons.

[Hospicedoc]

The point is, the WoW "kindness" is not true. In 99% of time it's not true at all. Even in your post, while i agree that be kind it's not so hard, specially in a videogame where you lose nothing, you show that kindness or being nice was not something coming from the "hearts" of players, but was necessary to avoid being declined from gruop or social activities. I must be kind not because i want to be like that but to avoid the server stigma.
The truth is, in internet there is little no reason to not be rude (don't want to say other things). In WoW is no different. In past WoW, where everything was slow paced, you had the "server stigma", now in a WoW where you can replace a "bad attitude" player in mere minutes, you have, for example, the deserter debuff.

To be honest, i don't know or can think of good ways to enforce good attitude, they can maybe implement more ways to promote it (but in the end, will be a false good attitude anyway, just to grab the rewards).

You bring in a valid point. I did not say anything related to the fact that being kind is the right thing to do or the important of kindness for kindness sake, or to create a positive gaming community. Yes, you're right. However, I do believe in these things and I live my real life with this as something I do hold to be true.

I think my point was that the aspects of the game almost enforced a need to be at least tolerable for many players because you just couldn't join a cross-server LFR, or pay to change your identity or server. So as a previous poster said, it did create stronger server communities. This was not all good though because some people could arbitrarily decided to blackball you or alienate you and you were stuck on that server. I am not LONGING for days gone by per se, I am just wondering what the factors are that have contributed to what seems like more prevalent "dick" behavior in the game. Thanks for your thoughts. Yes, I was remiss in not saying it is just good to be nice.

- - - Updated - - -

If you are only nice because someone is watching, then you're not really nice. Does the new systems encourage douche baggery? Sure. But you either have a system where you have a net nanny watching over you at all times or you just to be the Wild West. I want Blizzard to look for ways to prevent bad behavior in passive ways, like removing the ability to mount within 10 yards of a major NPC (like Santa will be douche bag heaven come Christmas)

Outside of that, this is just the era of trolling. It's all the cool to make people rage. Sadly too many people get a great joy out of people getting pissed off. Part of the problem, is just like in Politics, people have bought heavily into the many Stereotypes about other wow players. So any thought that they can ruin the day of the proverbial 12 year old on momma and daddy's credit card is seen as a great act of service.

Hopefully the era will end and trolling will lose it's cool status.

If people keep the speed limit because they believe in it as a practice or because they don't want a traffic ticket, doesn't it accomplish the same end? People more likely to keep the speed limit?

So, to some extent, whether people were nice because they thought it was the right thing to do or because of potential repercussions, at the end of the day, it seemed as though people tended to be nicer overall. This is just my perception and I have no actual data, which was why I posted the thread to encourage discussion.

[Deleted]

If you are only nice because someone is watching, then you're not really nice. Does the new systems encourage douche baggery? Sure. But you either have a system where you have a net nanny watching over you at all times or you just to be the Wild West. I want Blizzard to look for ways to prevent bad behavior in passive ways, like removing the ability to mount within 10 yards of a major NPC (like Santa will be douche bag heaven come Christmas)

Outside of that, this is just the era of trolling. It's all the cool to make people rage. Sadly too many people get a great joy out of people getting pissed off. Part of the problem, is just like in Politics, people have bought heavily into the many Stereotypes about other wow players. So any thought that they can ruin the day of the proverbial 12 year old on momma and daddy's credit card is seen as a great act of service.

Hopefully the era will end and trolling will lose it's cool status.

Trolling comes down to schadenfreude:

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schadenfreude
ˈʃɑːd(ə)nˌfrɔɪdə,German ˈʃɑːdənˌfrɔydə/
noun
noun: Schadenfreude; noun: schadenfreude

pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune.

It's been around for ages and it's not going away any time soon. Very few people are nice by your definition, as the only reason to be nice without repercussions is empathy, which is easily lost over the internet when you can't see or hear the person, when you know nothing of the person other than it being another human being (and really, we're reaching the point where it might not even be that, due to bots and AI).

[Deleted]

You bring in a valid point. I did not say anything related to the fact that being kind is the right thing to do or the important of kindness for kindness sake, or to create a positive gaming community. Yes, you're right. However, I do believe in these things and I live my real life with this as something I do hold to be true.

I think my point was that the aspects of the game almost enforced a need to be at least tolerable for many players because you just couldn't join a cross-server LFR, or pay to change your identity or server. So as a previous poster said, it did create stronger server communities. This was not all good though because some people could arbitrarily decided to blackball you or alienate you and you were stuck on that server. I am not LONGING for days gone by per se, I am just wondering what the factors are that have contributed to what seems like more prevalent "dick" behavior in the game. Thanks for your thoughts. Yes, I was remiss in not saying it is just good to be nice.

Hey i agree with you, i always tend to be nice in everything i do in real life: being nice have 0 costs, and luckily sometimes makes people being nicer at you too!
To be honest i started WoW (on official servers) only in TBC for a few months and then again in WoTLK.

And i agree that server changes surely can be dangerous, specially for the medium/little guild scenario. Sadly (and i have recently experienced that) can happen that a bunch of crucial guild member server hops and, voilà, the whole guild fall apart, and this is even more true in a mythic raid scenario, where it's not easy for smaller guilds to have a roster of 20+ active raiders.

Ah and i think that the "forced" personal loot, surely helped against ninja/reserve behaviour. And also i see that people are much more inclined to trade item that they do not need, i usually get 2/3 free item on LFR or dungeons when i equip an alt (ofc if they are not enchanters).

[Ebalina]

Yup, been saying this for a while now. Your reputation on your server means pretty much nothing anymore. Server communities are gone because of cross realm stuff. Meeting cool/fun people out in the world to make friends with is a thing of the past (for the most part). WoW is almost a solo RPG at this point. People are just getting in the way.

If you believe that personal reputation doesn't matter you are part of the problem mate.

[Nokonda]

I try to be nice whenever I can. I believe in giving people second chances and being respectful even when you don't know the person or can't see him/her. There's still a human being behind the screen. But man, some people... really test my patience.